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Helpful answers
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Oct 24, 2013 9:40 AM in response to kllewyMacby snozdop,I'm confused as to why Apple couldn't use the new/recognized standards (CalDAV and CardDAV) between devices however. Is there something in the standard that requires that this protocol be done via servers in the cloud?
Yes. CalDAV and CardDAV are specifically designed to be client-server based. There is a single master server holding all the data, then each client (iOS device, Mac or PC) subscribes to the master data stored on the server. Because the server is internet-based, any device, anywhere in the world, at any time, can keep its data up to date.
A local USB or WiFi sync obviously cannot sync mobile devices or computers that are not in the immediate vicinity.
Both methods have their disadvantages, but with near ubiquitous internet connections on mobile devices, cloud-syncing is now the preferred method. A USB or WiFi sync requires that you carry the host computer around with you to be able to sync, something that carrying a mobile device is supposed to negate the need for.
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Oct 24, 2013 9:48 AM in response to AndyDby snozdop,You still haven't answered what one is supposed to do when you have no internet connectivity. At the moment I can sync just fine in that situation.
Not if you don't have your computer with you. Modern mobile devices are designed to replace the computer for many tasks (email, organiser, web browsing, etc.), and thousands of people who travel now find their iPhone or iPad are more than adequate for these purposes, meaning they can travel lighter and not lug around a full laptop.
To do a local USB sync, you have to not only carry your mobile device(s), but also the computer you sync with and associated cables.
To do an iCloud sync, all you need is an internet connection, and WiFi or 3G/4G is available in more and more places. I've been thousands of feet up a mountain in Eastern Europe and been able to sync with nothing more than the phone in my hand.
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Oct 24, 2013 9:51 AM in response to KiltedTimby winglet,KiltedTim,
You really have no clue. Not all iPhone users are in the US. I am not. It's only in the US and Canada where they use the outdated model of locking you to a contract, a carrier, and a data plan. Even that is slowly changing with the release of unlocked, contract-free phones with T-Mobile and the like. But I was one of the first adopters of the iPhone in 2007, and have owned several iterations since, all without data plans.
The simple fact is that functionality has been removed, without discussions nor consultation with the people who actually pull out their wallets. I'm no Luddite, and I'm pro industry standards. But don't insult people's intelligence, or even Apple's engineers, by trying to imply that Apple just had no choice anymore but to use network-based sync.
I work as an airline pilot based in Dubai. The world is a lot bigger than the US of A. And that's only going to increase with the push into China. Trust me, not everyone can, or wants to, depend on network connectivity to perform the simple task of having a common contact list or calendar.
Hope I put that simply enough.
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Oct 24, 2013 9:53 AM in response to Gerrit7by snozdop,Before you use any cloud service,. replace the word 'cloud' by 'someone else's computer' and then think about if you really want to park your data there. If it's not encrypted before upload, others will be able access it.
Well, there you go. Your main reason for not using iCloud is completely moot. All iCloud data IS hardware encrypted on your device, and encrypted in transit and on the Apple servers.
See: http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4865 and http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4175
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Oct 24, 2013 10:05 AM in response to snozdopby winglet,"Not if you don't have your computer with you. Modern mobile devices are designed toreplace the computer for many tasks (email, organiser, web browsing, etc.), and thousands of people who travel now find their iPhone or iPad are more than adequate for these purposes, meaning they can travel lighter and not lug around a full laptop."
This is a silly argument that only serves to strengthen my point: that it's having choice taken away. You've basically taken the same position as Apple: that you/they know best what serves my needs. I know that's Jobs' famous quote, but you're not him. I do need my MB Pro Retina to perform the tasks that I perform, but even if I didn't, it's my choice to travel with whatever device I want. And I actually think Apple is still hoping the odd person will buy a laptop - do you think?
The fact that you could update your contacts on the side of a mountaintop is completely irrelevant to my inability to simply keep my calendars synced when at a hotel where their policy limits a purchased package to one device. Add all the cloud-syncing you want, go crazy, store every last file you've ever made there - I don't care! But don't force me to do the things the way you do, when the technology exists for both to co-exist.
Or are Apple engineers just not capable of engineering a dual solution using industry standards? I doubt that somehow.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:16 AM in response to wingletby KiltedTim,winglet wrote:
KiltedTim,
You really have no clue. Not all iPhone users are in the US. I am not. It's only in the US and Canada where they use the outdated model of locking you to a contract, a carrier, and a data plan. Even that is slowly changing with the release of unlocked, contract-free phones with T-Mobile and the like. But I was one of the first adopters of the iPhone in 2007, and have owned several iterations since, all without data plans.
Sorry.. You seem to have a reading comprehension problem. I did not say anything at all about being locked into a contract. What I said was that NO SUPPORTED IPHONE CARRIER ON THE PLANET permits the use of an iPhone on their network without either a post paid or pre-paid data plan.
Whether you have used an iPhone without a data plan in the past or currently is completely irrelevant.
This entire discussion is pointless and a violation of the TOS. The technical question has been answered.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:18 AM in response to snozdopby Gerrit7,The article you referenced is not quite clear whether Apple has the key for the encrypted data on their iCloud servers or if you are the only one with the key.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:25 AM in response to snozdopby kllewyMac,Thanks for the links to the articls snozdop.
Although encrypted in transit, and on Apple's servers - the fact that I can use multiple devices to access that data and see it's history means, I think, that Apple holds the keys to decrypt (not me).
There is a similar debate regarding Apple's iMessage service where Apple claims that only the user can access their own data, but security researchers have proven that the encryption keys are held by Apple (and therefore subject to U.S. laws for discovery).
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Oct 24, 2013 10:28 AM in response to KiltedTimby winglet,@KiltedTim,
In other words, you have no constructive response to the legitimate concerns being raised.
You are completely incorrect about no supported carriers permitting iPhones on their networks without a data plan. So factually wrong, that it actually renders your other arguments suspect. There are literally millions of iPhone users without data plans whatsoever. The contract remark I made was completely on point: most carriers outside North America do not require you to sign on for a data plan. In most countries the laws even forbid a carrier to require it. Educate yourself. Travel a bit.
I don't think anyone is under any illusions about the answer to the "technical question" as to whether local syncing is possible, judging by the amount of discussion taking place on this and many other forums. If some senator was worried about Apple giving away anonymous device location info, it will be interesting to see what happens now that Apple requires you to push your entire contact list and personal calendar throught the cloud lol.
And if the discussion is pointless, do be sure to consider your own participation in it.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:26 AM in response to boglottby insol,Also grrr. Agree with all of the privacy, own-my-own-data, local control is good arguments in this thread. Kudos to boglott. Also a link for the not so faint of heart, but should not be too hard:
http://www.ronregev.com/misc/pim_server_tutorial/
I will be doing so on my MBA and thus have local sync where ever I happen to be. Using a bluetooth PAN also gives way around any WiFi challenges.
Asuming the above works... done and done.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:32 AM in response to SteveB1945by Air4One,I'm agreed with you.
I'm relieved I do not upgraded to Mavericks now. I'm ready to doing it when local sync (wifi and USB) will available in all OSX systems.
I'm thinking now :
Facebook promised about private : false
Yahoo mail inviolable : false
Google spying users'live through ads : true (:p)
Microsoft doesn't do efforts about viruses : true (:c)
...
Why not about Apple ?
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Oct 24, 2013 10:32 AM in response to insolby winglet,Wi-fi isn't the issue. In a pinch you could always create an ad-hoc network (cause hey Apple, that's wayyyy more elegant than a USB cable!).
The issue for me is lack of internet connectivity. It's not quite as ubiquitious as you think. Should be interesting as the user base in places like China where broadband penetration isn't quite what it is in the US (!!) starts to pick up speed.
On the other hand, they may just wisen up and stick with Android and skip the whole walled-garden thing.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:39 AM in response to wingletby snozdop,If you know anything about Apple and its products you should know that providing lots of choice is not something they do. Apple limits choice in everything they offer which leads to increased simplicity for the vast majority of people. That doesn't suit everyone though, and that's why Apple is not the only computer, mobile hardware and software vendor.
it's my choice to travel with whatever device I want.
Just as much as it is your choice to travel with whatever devices you want it's also Apple's choice to include or exclude features from the products they make, based on what the majority want or need and Apple's "vision" for how they want their products to work.
No doubt Apple has the figures for how many people use iCloud to sync and how many use iTunes, and probably they looked at those figures and decided it was no longer viable to continue supporting the old wired way. I don't know - I'm just guessing. Maybe they have other reasons. But if you're happy syncing via USB then you can stick with OS X Mountain Lion and continue. Again, it's your choice which operating system you use.
Or are Apple engineers just not capable of engineering a dual solution using industry standards? I doubt that somehow.
The fact is, there is no industry standard for USB syncing Calendars and Contacts, so no, Apple's engineers cannot magically use an industry standard technology that doesn't exist. They would have go through the years long process of collaborating with numerous other hardware and software manufacturers to create such an industry standard, and then hope it is adopted by all before it would become a reality, and going back to wired connections is not the way the world is moving, whether you like it or not.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:43 AM in response to KiltedTimby Z001,KiltedTim
If I remember correctly you started the paranoia topic ..and you are right this is beside the point, as is whether or not cloud syncing is the 'correct' way. Here are a bunch of people who for whatever reason are looking for a solution to sync locally (whether you agree with it or not also beside the point). I have read some techie jargon about standards, obsolescence and stuff, which frankly is irrelevant to me, Apple has proven before that they can solve whatever they want.....when they were still thinking about customer needs.
The question has not been answered, because we have not found a solution as unfortunately, even if that will be the only route, the server option is an overkill to solve this problem and frankly scares the **** out of me.
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Oct 24, 2013 10:49 AM in response to Z001by KiltedTim,OK. Here are the facts. This feature is not available in OS X Mavericks. If that makes people unhappy, they are free not to use OS X Mavericks. Nothing anyone here can say about it will alter reality.
The "solution" is not to use OS X Mavericks if you require local sync of calendars and contacts without going through a cloud service. There is NO OTHER ANSWER that anyone here can give. Yes, the server route is an option. If it's not a viable option for you... well, you already have the answer.