Z001

Q: sync without iCloud?

After I have installed Mountain Lion, I have had a number of sync issues via iTunes and for a while I thought these were the same reasons I could not sync my notes from my iPhone with the fancy new application on my Macbook.....until I came across this article informing me that it is no longer supported in Mountain Lion(!!!!): http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4191  (relevant part half way down under Syncing Notes with iTunes and OS X Mountain Lion v10.8)

 

I am a traditionalist when it comes to privacy and data security. I like to keep my data on my hardware behind firewall, only upload data onto the web that I genuinly want to share with others (...even to the point of using POP mail account). I have no intention to use iCloud (it seems I am not alone in this, sure you all read the comments by Steve Wozniak http://www.techradar.com/news/networking/routers-storage/apple-co-founder-thinks -the-cloud-will-be-horrendous-1091188).

 

The way things go, I will end up with 6 different Mac devices at home that will stop talking to each other unless I feed all the data into the cloud.

 

Does anyone know a way to sync everything just on your home network, without having to upload stuff to the web? Why cannot we have our own homeCloud? Any suggestions welcome (including from Apple)......Hope I will not have to abandon my Mac devices and consider (dare I even say) Windows!?

MacBook Air (13-inch Late 2010), OS X Mountain Lion, iPhone 4 with latest IOS

Posted on Aug 11, 2012 6:57 AM

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Q: sync without iCloud?

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  • by BruceHBlack,

    BruceHBlack BruceHBlack Oct 24, 2013 5:43 PM in response to Z001
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 24, 2013 5:43 PM in response to Z001

    It cant be that hard to hack a patch for this.  If you can run a server on the same machine that you are syncing the iPhone with, why cant someone use the pieces it takes to do that and use them to run this patch without setting up another virtual machine?

     

    You know, I double-dog dare a brilliant programmer to fix this...I triple-dog dare you to!!!  (and will pay you for it!)

  • by TopSteve,Helpful

    TopSteve TopSteve Oct 24, 2013 6:03 PM in response to Z001
    Level 1 (69 points)
    Wireless
    Oct 24, 2013 6:03 PM in response to Z001

    Z001

     

    If you run the server on the same macbook as you are using then I am unshoure what you mean by "geographically independent"? Your server will be where ever "geographically" your macbook is.

     

    Do you mean you want to access your server/macbook from a nother device from another "geographical" location?

     

    May be you need to readup on routting IP

     

    The IP address of your computer is iver set by your ISP or if you making a privat unconnected network by you or it can have more then one IP addresses the one set by your ISP to connect to the internet and the privat address.  In that case the computer that is connected to your router is used as a gatway from your privat network to the internet.

     

    Understand IP (Internet Protocal) and routing is VERY inportant to server admin.  All of the above is posable even if you are useing one meachin (a MacBook/Laptop) but please rember:

     

    No matter where you go and whitch ISP you use even "WiFi Hotspots" your interface you use to connect uses the IP address it is given/gets from the ISP and the interface used for your privat network uses one of the privat network ranges of IP address: the ranges I know are:

     

    192.168.1.1 to 192.168.1.255 with a netmask of 255.255.255.0

    and

    10.0.0.1 to 10.??? (I can't rember this one) and a netmask of 255.0.0.0

     

    If you don't understand or can't work out what this all means I am sorry to say you are not ready to run a server. 

     

    I hope this is all of help

     

    Z001 wrote:

     

    Thanks TopSteve. I intend to run the the server (if I get myself to do it) on the same Macbook I am using a) because I only have a much older machine I could use for this purpose and b) I would like to be geographically independent if possible, but I suspect I will only be able to use the server to sync on my home network only as I probably won't be able to configure it elsewhere. I am also very interested to find out the answers to I am Mel's questions.

  • by rc-apple,

    rc-apple rc-apple Oct 25, 2013 12:37 AM in response to kllewyMac
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 12:37 AM in response to kllewyMac

    Hi Apple !

     

    This is to inform you, that Maverick is NOT usable for german business people because of keychain sync to icloud !

     

    I tried to work with Maverick without this, but then I was always prompted by Mail for my icloud password.. So, I was going back to Mountain Lion and will stay there unless you give up your pressure to force us with our secret person-related data into your cloud.

     

    Sorry..

  • by Z001,

    Z001 Z001 Oct 25, 2013 1:30 AM in response to TopSteve
    Level 1 (6 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 1:30 AM in response to TopSteve

    TopSteve,

     

    Thanks for this. I think you answered my question. By geographically independent I meant if both the machive with the server on it and the iPhone are on the same network, which is not the home network (for example in a hotel). If I get you right, having configured the server to work on my home network with the IPs I can fix for each on my router, it will have to be reconfigured for a third party network where I am unable to decide IP addresses as they are given by the system DHCP.

     

    ANyway, at least I can use it on my home network.

     

    Thanks

  • by winglet,

    winglet winglet Oct 25, 2013 2:23 AM in response to Z001
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 2:23 AM in response to Z001

    As the conversation seems to have veered back away from flaming and Apple-bootlicking, I'm game to try and participate again.

     

    I think you answered my question. By geographically independent I meant if both the machive with the server on it and the iPhone are on the same network, which is not the home network (for example in a hotel). If I get you right, having configured the server to work on my home network with the IPs I can fix for each on my router, it will have to be reconfigured for a third party network where I am unable to decide IP addresses as they are given by the system DHCP.

     

    I travel a lot. A LOT. Thousands of hours a year, internationally, in my job as an airline pilot based in the Middle East. So I have set up in thousands of hotel rooms over the years, in hundreds of countries. Not to mention public WI-fi in hotels, coffee shops, airports, on and on. My travel gear includes an iPhone, iPad, and 15" MB Pro Retina, and Airport Express to tie it all together. These are some of my observations.

     

    Internet connectivity is a relative thing. Speed and access vary wildly, from non-existent to blazingly fast to at times government-blocked (becoming more common). At times access is throttled and blocked even at the local level, by the hotel, or by the ISP. Ports can be selectively blocked, VPN's don't always work, bandwidth caps are imposed, and the like. It isn't a given you will able to blithely sync your devices over the internet. Not a problem if you are in the US with fast broadband and never venture more than a few miles from your home.

     

    More and more hotels have only wireless access, with less and less Ethernet in the rooms, so the Express can't create a local hotspot with internet connectivity. Even with wired access, many hotel systems are now configured to prevent you from creating a subnet in your room (can only use the Express as a Bridge, ie with one device). Wirelessly, most policies will only allow access to one device per package purchased (tied to your hardware MAC address).

     

    Point in all this? For the professional business traveler, Cloud sync isn't just a nuisance or philosophical objection. It's something inconsistent enough to be unusable. Sorry, but I can't wait until I get back home in a week to make my devices match. And none of this even begins to touch the privacy issues. My buddy snowdrop or whatever stated that things are moving more towards a wireless world. Perhaps. But the world is also in a post-Edward Snowden, NSA scandal, Wikileaks world, and teeming masses of tech-illiterate i-Lemming cabin crew girls aside, people are becoming more aware that their data is their identity and one of their most valuable possessions. Which is why Apple, Google, and the guv'mint want it as easily as possible. Not paranoid, just the reality.

     

    At this point I'm sitting tight in Mountain Lion and thankful that the awful experience of upgrading to iOS 7 acted as a warning to prevent me from jumping right into Mavericks. I'm toying with the idea of going the server route for local sync if I do go to Mavericks but will be waiting for a good long while to see what others more clever than I come up with to work around Apple's unilateral policy. I'm definitely considering any hardware and software vendor outside of Apple for longterm solutions. It's not being petulant, I have no choice.

     

    As far as the technical niceties of a local server solution, I've administrated Linux servers but not OS X, so I'm not totally conversant on what it can and can't do. I'm hoping that it utilizes Bonjour for local networking, it would be a pain to have to switch back and forth from static to dynamic IP's just to sync calendars and contacts.

     

    I used to mock the Windows camp for having to spend hours kludging their systems just to get them to do basic things possible on my Mac. No more.

  • by I am Mel,

    I am Mel I am Mel Oct 25, 2013 5:43 AM in response to TopSteve
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 5:43 AM in response to TopSteve

    Hi TopSteve,

     

    Thank you for answering my questions. I appreciate your taking the time to do so.

     

    I have not read manuals yet, but I had done some general "googling" about setting up servers. Most articles seemed very intent on pointing out that although you can run a server off almost any computer, your server's machine should have redundancies and backup power and run 24/7 etc. - That's understandable for an office environment, but since my only reason for running a server would be to sync calendars and contacts once a week or so, I don't think I'd need all that. But again, since making sure the server runs 24/7 is so highly stressed everywhere (because the articles are geared more towards office environments where that's logical), I was wondering if there were other reasons it HAD to be on all the time. Like if maybe server software gets confused if it's connected and disconnected arbitrarily. - I guess not

     

    You make  good point that even if I don't need other server features, if it's not set up properly, I may not even get the basic features I want. That makes sense of course. It's also good to know that I might be able to run a server from an older machine for basic functions that are not Maverick Specific (not sure if the calendar or contacts in Mavericks would be an example of that.) I haven't decided yet whether I'll run the server software on a separate machine, or install it directly onto my everyday laptop.

     

    I almost wonder if I should bother learning Apple's server software or if I should just go directly to Linux server software. On the one hand, Apple seems intent on dumbing down everything, so their stuff is probably very basic and easy to learn. But since Apple keeps crippling their products, I wouldn't be surprised if their server software disappears next and I'd have to learn Linux anyway. (I mean servers require configuring - and we can't have Apple users CONFIGURING anything anymore, can we! </sarcasm> )

     

    I don't think I'll be doing any of this right away. Life is too hectic. I guess that'll give me time to read up.

     

    I can't tell you how relieved I am that I did NOT buy a new ipad or iphone yet. I was going to in the next month or so! I don't think apple's mobile interfaces are significantly better than android devices. I got apple products because they were more compatible with my apple computers. Now that apple mobile devices can only be synched through "clouds" there's zero benefit to paying extra money for them. If the only way to sync is through a cloud or a server, I can use android devices for that (SO RELIEVED I'm not sitting here with new apple mobile devices right now! I would be SO ******!!!)

     

    (If any developers are reading this, let me know if Mac's server software is on the way out next, and save me the time of learning something that is also about to become defunct!)

     

    Thank you again for answering my questions TopSteve!

  • by I am Mel,

    I am Mel I am Mel Oct 25, 2013 5:52 AM in response to BruceHBlack
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 5:52 AM in response to BruceHBlack

    It cant be that hard to hack a patch for this.  If you can run a server on the same machine that you are syncing the iPhone with, why cant someone use the pieces it takes to do that and use them to run this patch without setting up another virtual machine?

     

    You know, I double-dog dare a brilliant programmer to fix this...I triple-dog dare you to!!!  (and will pay you for it!)

     

    I'd have thought the same thing, but we all wanted that when Apple dropped "notes" synching in Mountain Lion, and no one came up with a real solution for that. Even worse, it looks like most apps that provided independent syncing for their specific products (their own notes or calendar apps etc) are all saying that they will not be compatible with Mavericks. If those developers can't make a workaround, I doubt someone else will bother. But in principle I agree with you. How hard could it be if the capability exists? And yet, people who do this for a living aren't coming up with anything. It would be nice if that changed.

  • by TopSteve,

    TopSteve TopSteve Oct 25, 2013 10:07 AM in response to Z001
    Level 1 (69 points)
    Wireless
    Oct 25, 2013 10:07 AM in response to Z001

    Z001

     

    FIRST WARNING THE INFORMATION I GIVE HEAR IS NOT COMPLEAT BUT SHOWS CONCEPTUALLY WHAT CAN BE DONE.

     

    sort of right let me give an example of how I might sort this out or Snow Leopard (IP/TCP Networking is conceptually the same on all systems)  First this is very vage because I am trying to get across consept and not detail.  The detail is to involved for me to go into in this sort of post.

     

    I would setup a DYNDNS account and domain name say "mydomain.dyndns.com" I'll come back to this latter. I would install "Snow Leopard Server" on a laptop I would disable the DNS server and the DHCP server and setup my router I would give it a fixed IP on the ethernet port of 192.168.1.2/255.255.255.0 "Using DHCP with Manual Address" I would give the server the name "server.mydomain.dyndns.com".

     

    Now what happens when your at home?  You turn the laptop on and login it runs the client from dyndns.  This tells dyndns to give your domainname the IP of your router and now you can login to your Server by giving the iPhone the servername "server.mydomain.dyndns.com" and we are all working.

     

    Now what happens at the hotel maybe(Depends on firewalls and things) if your luckey the same as at home.

    Now what happens at the hot spot maybe(Depends on firewalls and things) if your luckey the same as at home.

     

    I DO  NOT THINK OR ADVICE RUNNING A SERVER ON PUBLIC (HOTEL AND HOT SPOT's even if it works)

     

    So what I would do is have a "Mac Server" at home with the IP setup as above on "server.mydomain.dyndns" my laptop with IP 192.168.1.10/255.255.255.0 "Using DHCP with Manual Address" connect to my home server "server,mydomain.dyndns" and this would work from home, hotel and hotspot.

     

    You could also use something like a airport express set it up at home in the same way as the laptop with a IP of 192.168.1.1/255.255.255.0  "Using DHCP with Manual Address" I don't know if this is posable but there are 3rd party wifi routers that will do it.  Set the laptop/server up as above but insted of using ethernet you the wifi then use the wifi with the iphone then use the servers IP address insted of the name (192.168.1.2/255.255.255.0). Then when you goto the hotel plug the wifi router into there ethernet and this will still work.

     

     

     

    Z001 wrote:

     

    TopSteve,

     

    Thanks for this. I think you answered my question. By geographically independent I meant if both the machive with the server on it and the iPhone are on the same network, which is not the home network (for example in a hotel). If I get you right, having configured the server to work on my home network with the IPs I can fix for each on my router, it will have to be reconfigured for a third party network where I am unable to decide IP addresses as they are given by the system DHCP.

     

    ANyway, at least I can use it on my home network.

     

    Thanks

  • by TopSteve,

    TopSteve TopSteve Oct 25, 2013 10:20 AM in response to I am Mel
    Level 1 (69 points)
    Wireless
    Oct 25, 2013 10:20 AM in response to I am Mel

    "older machine for basic functions that are not Maverick Specific (not sure if the calendar or contacts in Mavericks would be an example of that.)" 

     

    As Apple change services so do protacals change so if you want to run "Maverick" clients I would run "Maverick" server the only time when that is not true is if you doing non "Maverick" things like web server, print server or SMB(windows file server) or FTP ect........"

     

    ".......But since Apple keeps crippling their products, I wouldn't be surprised if their server software disappears next and I'd have to learn Linux anyway. (I mean servers require configuring - and we can't have Apple users CONFIGURING anything anymore, can we! </sarcasm> )...."

     

    I have/do run Linux servers as well as Mac and Windows servers and they are all good for the non platform specfic servers like (WEB,FTP,SMP,MAIL,ect.......) BUT!!!!! NOT FOR THINGS LIKE (Mac Sync'ing, iCal, iAddress ect) Apple do not give 3rd partys the protacals so servers for these systems are not ported to "Linux or Windows" You could only do this with revise-engerining not easey and maybe NOT LEAGLE.

     

    It's not a good idear to tray and cut corners when it comes to MAC/Apple.

     

    Yes I don't like the idear that Apple want to do it all for you and so requare that you use iCloud I would want the chouse.

     

    Steve

  • by TopSteve,

    TopSteve TopSteve Oct 25, 2013 10:24 AM in response to I am Mel
    Level 1 (69 points)
    Wireless
    Oct 25, 2013 10:24 AM in response to I am Mel

    ".....setting up another virtual machine?....." you dont use "virtual machine" to run a server on the meachin you work on.  You install the server version of the OS.

  • by I am Mel,

    I am Mel I am Mel Oct 25, 2013 11:29 AM in response to TopSteve
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 11:29 AM in response to TopSteve
    I have/do run Linux servers as well as Mac and Windows servers and they are all good for the non platform specfic servers like (WEB,FTP,SMP,MAIL,ect.......) BUT!!!!! NOT FOR THINGS LIKE (Mac Sync'ing, iCal, iAddress ect) Apple do not give 3rd partys the protacals so servers for these systems are not ported to "Linux or Windows"

     

     

    Drat.

     

    Thanks again TopSteve. I was hoping syncing calendars and contacts used some kind of universal protocol that would not be specific to apple's server software, but I guess not. That makes me even more certain that this will just be a temporary workaround. I'm sure apple will soon remove that ability from their server software too.

     

    I guess when I get around to doing this, I may start with a mac server, then start learning Linux for later, as I'm sure it won't be long before I'll need to switch over to Linux and android completely.

     

    So frustrating. I always liked apple products because I didn't have to do all this stuff to get my machine to do basic functions. Now it's becoming more like an oversized tablet - which may be what teens and old people want, but it's not what I want. I want a COMPUTER. One that simplifies my life, and runs apps of my chosing. Not one that restricts my usage and complicates things.

     

    So ridiculous.

     

    Thank you again TopSteve for the additional info.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Oct 25, 2013 11:31 AM in response to I am Mel
    Level 9 (50,245 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 25, 2013 11:31 AM in response to I am Mel

    I am Mel wrote:

     

    I have/do run Linux servers as well as Mac and Windows servers and they are all good for the non platform specfic servers like (WEB,FTP,SMP,MAIL,ect.......) BUT!!!!! NOT FOR THINGS LIKE (Mac Sync'ing, iCal, iAddress ect) Apple do not give 3rd partys the protacals so servers for these systems are not ported to "Linux or Windows"

     

     

    Drat.

     

    Thanks again TopSteve. I was hoping syncing calendars and contacts used some kind of universal protocol that would not be specific to apple's server software, but I guess not.

    Yes they do, for calendars Apple use CalDav, and for contacts they use CardDav. Standard protocols both.

  • by I am Mel,

    I am Mel I am Mel Oct 25, 2013 11:34 AM in response to TopSteve
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 11:34 AM in response to TopSteve
    ".....setting up another virtual machine?....." you dont use "virtual machine" to run a server on the meachin you work on.  You install the server version of the OS.

     

     

    You directed your reply to me, but that wasn't my comment. I was replying to someone else who said that.

  • by I am Mel,

    I am Mel I am Mel Oct 25, 2013 11:54 AM in response to Csound1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 11:54 AM in response to Csound1

    Drat.

     

    Thanks again TopSteve. I was hoping syncing calendars and contacts used some kind of universal protocol that would not be specific to apple's server software, but I guess not.

    Yes they do, for calendars Apple use CalDav, and for contacts they use CardDav. Standard protocols both.

     

    Thanks Csound1. That's what I thought I'd read somewhere. But does that mean other servers (linux/windows) that use CalDav and CardDav can sync with apple's calendar and contacts apps? (which is what I'd originally thought.) Or is there still something proprietary about those apps that will only interface with a mac server? (which is what it sounded like TopSteve was saying.)

     

    (Editing to add that yes I will ultimately figure all this out when I pick up a manual, but it would save me some time to know which servers are capable of doing what I'd like, so I don't waste time reading the "wrong" manuals! - Thanks again to anyone who can give input on this.)

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Oct 25, 2013 11:54 AM in response to I am Mel
    Level 9 (50,245 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 25, 2013 11:54 AM in response to I am Mel

    I am Mel wrote:

     

    Drat.

     

    Thanks again TopSteve. I was hoping syncing calendars and contacts used some kind of universal protocol that would not be specific to apple's server software, but I guess not.

    Yes they do, for calendars Apple use CalDav, and for contacts they use CardDav. Standard protocols both.

     

    Thanks Csound1. That's what I thought I'd read somewhere. But does that mean other servers (linux/windows) that use CalDav and CardDav can sync with apple's calendar and contacts apps? (which is what I'd originally thought.) Or is there still something proprietary about those apps that will only interface with a mac server? (which is what it sounded like TopSteve was saying.)

    Other clients can sync with CalDav and CardDav (there are examples out there already) there is nothing unusual about the implementation. Your problem is that most Servers are not Clients so some research will be needed to find one that can. (Soho Organizer is an example of a Dav client that works just fine with Apple services, as is eMclient (Windows)

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