Seigneur_Folken

Q: Did kotoeri changed with Maverick?

I installed Maverick this morning, and what was my surprise when I tried to use Kotoeri on my french keyboad (then Azerty)...

 

Until Mountain Lion, when i was using french language source, my keyboard was on the Azerty mode, and when using Kotoeri, my keyboard was converting to a JIS Keyboard (Japanese Qwerty).
But now, Kotoeri is using the Azerty mode, even when I use a JIS Blutooth Apple Keyboard.

 

The only trick to use the Qwerty mode for Kotoeri is to drag a US keyboard in the language source, then alternate between french language source for french, then US keyboard=>Kotoeri to use the Qwerty mode in japanese...

 

To be clear:
Until Mountain Lion:

 

French language source= Azerty
Kotoeri Japanese language source= Qwerty

 

With Maverick:
French language source= Azerty
Kotoeri Japanese language source= The same language source as the previously used.

 

So, the question is: Why did you do that?
It's just a **** to use this! All the people using japanese language I know are naturelly using the Qwerty mode for Kotoeri, and some japanese characters are not included in the Azerty mode (such as "~").

Posted on Oct 23, 2013 3:08 AM

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Q: Did kotoeri changed with Maverick?

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  • by Tom Gewecke,

    Tom Gewecke Tom Gewecke Oct 25, 2013 5:51 AM in response to I. Heiska
    Level 9 (79,195 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 5:51 AM in response to I. Heiska

    I. Heiska wrote:

     

    I'm unable to type japanese properly unless I go into System Prefs and add/remove the Swedish layout whenever I need to switch.

     

    Are you able to type Japanese properly if you add the US layout and then always switch to it before you go to Kotoeri?

  • by Seigneur_Folken,

    Seigneur_Folken Seigneur_Folken Oct 25, 2013 8:02 AM in response to Tom Gewecke
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 8:02 AM in response to Tom Gewecke

    Yes, if you use a US layout before using the Kotoeri, it will work.

  • by Timoooh,

    Timoooh Timoooh Oct 25, 2013 4:14 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 4:14 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken

    Same here!

  • by lemonsoju,

    lemonsoju lemonsoju Oct 25, 2013 6:37 PM in response to Timoooh
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 6:37 PM in response to Timoooh

    It doesnt work if you have your MAC set to use a password. Then when you reboot, only the Kotoeri keyboard is in the input sources list - the US keyboard has been removed. If your password has a special character in it, you're screwed. You have to add the US keyboard back in manually. It works AFTER then, and for entering password at screensaver.

     

    Very frustrating. I have a Japanese MBP with my OS language set to English. Irrespective of my OS language, MacOS should be smart enough to know the keyboard on my MBP is a Japanese one and set the Koroeri romaji layout accordingly. For some reason, it sets my Kotoeri romaji keyboard to UK English layout - it must be picking up my region from my iCloud ID or something because I don't have ANYTHING on my Mac set to UK English.

     

    Happens on my Air too.

  • by lemonsoju,

    lemonsoju lemonsoju Oct 25, 2013 6:40 PM in response to lemonsoju
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 25, 2013 6:40 PM in response to lemonsoju

    http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4099

     

    "The input source or keyboard layout that your computer uses at the OS X login window is the same one you selected in the Setup Assistant the first time you started OS X."

     

    What the..... I am pretty sure I wouldnt have chosen UK English as the Keyboard layout on TWO computers that have Japanese keyboards. In any case, how stupid is it to set this FOREVER and never allow it to be changed later? Sure, you can add Input Methods - but having to add them every time?

  • by Arnaud Nanta,

    Arnaud Nanta Arnaud Nanta Oct 26, 2013 7:40 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 26, 2013 7:40 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken

       Same problem as you all.

     

       I have just "upgraded" (?) to Mavericks, and I searched here and there how to lock the keyboard all this morning. But I am unable to find out the right answer; it seems there is none for now....

     

       How an annoying and irrelevant choice from Apple.... I am really angry this Sunday...

  • by Arnaud Nanta,

    Arnaud Nanta Arnaud Nanta Oct 26, 2013 7:57 PM in response to Tom Gewecke
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 26, 2013 7:57 PM in response to Tom Gewecke

       Thanks. I just sent them a message.

  • by Seigneur_Folken,

    Seigneur_Folken Seigneur_Folken Oct 27, 2013 12:33 AM in response to Arnaud Nanta
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 12:33 AM in response to Arnaud Nanta

    Concerning the kotoeri keyboard in the session opening menu, I've been able to fix it by deleting my preferences (in the user library), and rebooting (I made a copy of the file on the desk).
    Kotoeri still use the last used entry source but... I think we will have to wait Apple to fix it...

     

    Et donc pour les français: Pour ce qui est du clavier kotoeri sur l'ouverture de session, en fait, je pense qu'il s'agit d'un conflit entre les préférences Moutain Lion et Maverick, donc j'ai viré les préférences de la bibliothèques et rebooté, maintenant ça fonctionne nickel. Toujours le problème de Kotoeri en Azerty mais bon... Va falloir attendre qu'Apple répare ça.

  • by misterpugz,

    misterpugz misterpugz Oct 27, 2013 6:05 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 6:05 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken

    Just saying :1 for this problem... Oh wait, that doesn&t say plus one like it should, and that apostrophe isn&t right either.

     

    Thanks Apple, great @upgrade@... dammit...

     

    *I sent some feedback now too(

     

    Got to love how great this punctuation is! It makes it really fun to be doing my programming job the past 7 days, I&m sure you can imagine, it&s really great '(

     

    Smileys are fun to type this way too '(

  • by misterpugz,

    misterpugz misterpugz Oct 27, 2013 6:11 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 6:11 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken

    Confirming a solution that worked for me, finally.

     

    Add US keyboard (who knows why...), then remove Kotoeri, then add Koteri back, then removed US. Now it works again.

     

    Yay, I can work, after one week... and smile properly again

     

    I saw this time suggested by someone in this thread and also on Twitter:

     

     

    I have found a solution to the new keyboard bug (only japanese) on Mavericks. Delete Kotoeri and use US keyboard, then add Kotoeri again.

  • by lemonsoju,

    lemonsoju lemonsoju Oct 27, 2013 6:24 PM in response to misterpugz
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 27, 2013 6:24 PM in response to misterpugz

    Does it work after a reboot at the first login screen with a password that contains punctuation such as " ?

    Just adding a US keyboard (without removing and adding kotoeri) works on all situations except that one.

  • by Timoooh,

    Timoooh Timoooh Oct 28, 2013 4:34 AM in response to misterpugz
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 28, 2013 4:34 AM in response to misterpugz

    The problem is that everytime you change from another language input (except American), the kotoeri copies the last used keyboard setting for symbols. So when I use Swedish, the Swedish input setup for symbols are saved into the Kotoeri input and the thing is, since American uses the same input setup as Kotoeri normally used before Mavericks it works if you use American input before changing into Kotoeri.

     

    However, this is not permanently, which is the main problem here. The only temporary way to get Kotoeri work like before is to change from American input before changing into Kotoeri, which is so freaking stupid because all other people who use any other language other than American... Like me, Swedish, or Italian, French... Whatever... Cannot simply change from their language into Kotoeri before they have changed into American right before.

     

    I can't imagine how freaking annoying this must be for everybody who has a job where they have to use both their own language input and Kotoeri in their work.

     

    I wonder why in God's name they even thought about doing this system. What's the point of it?

     

    APPLE PLEASE FIX THIS PROBLEM NOW!!!

  • by Tom Gewecke,

    Tom Gewecke Tom Gewecke Oct 28, 2013 6:15 AM in response to Timoooh
    Level 9 (79,195 points)
    Oct 28, 2013 6:15 AM in response to Timoooh

    Timoooh wrote:

     

    I wonder why in God's name they even thought about doing this system. What's the point of it?

     

    It's definitely a mystery why they changed this and omitted the keyboard preference setting present in 10.8.  Perhaps someone was thinking it should be the same as Chinese, where users usually prefer to do pinyin input using the same layout as for their native language.  But that is a different situation, since there is no special hardware keyboard like there is JIS for Japanese.

  • by Seigneur_Folken,

    Seigneur_Folken Seigneur_Folken Oct 28, 2013 10:51 AM in response to Tom Gewecke
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 28, 2013 10:51 AM in response to Tom Gewecke

    Well I tried the trick Misterpugz explained, and... didn't work... I'm stuck with this F***** azerty keyboard for Kotoeri...

     

    Then, until Apple fix this bug (I hope it is), I'll switch between French/US/Japanese keyboard...

  • by CamilloL,

    CamilloL CamilloL Oct 30, 2013 8:30 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 30, 2013 8:30 PM in response to Seigneur_Folken

    I have the same problem. I have a MacBook purchased in Italy with an Italian keyboard, and I use the Italian layout for writing Italian and English. However, for Japanese I am used to using the Japanese keyboard layout (like US).

     

    Theoretically, I am the person that Apple might have been trying to help with this change, since now the Japanese romaji input matches the labels on the keys. Unfortunately, it was no help at all: the Italian keyboard has many accented characters that simply do nothing in Kotoeri, and there are some Japanese symbols that are now impossible to type, such as 〜. I have to resort to switching to US first, and then Kotoeri, every single time.

     

    I'm going to submit my feedback too. I would also recommend that Apple recruit some people in this thread for their next OS X beta program, since any of us would have caught this issue before Mavericks's release.

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