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Fatal flaw with MacBook Pro's?

8388 Views 28 Replies Latest reply: May 21, 2006 7:25 PM by tapezor RSS
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Christian Sormarken Calculating status...
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May 21, 2006 4:50 AM
Lately, more and more Mac users have with help of the application CoreDuoTemp reported that their MacBook Pro constantly runs at 1000 MHz. Those reports came from several locations, including online forums, comments to the application CoreDuoTemp itself and chat rooms. It has since been reported that the MacBook Pro computers don't dynamically clock themselves when the battery is removed, but instead clock the processor to a static 1000 MHz.

The Intel Core Duo processors have as you might know, a very useful feature that allows them to dynamically clock themselves after the load on your computer. If you simply are browsing the web it may clock itself to 1500 MHz (depending on the topspeed of your CPU) and when playing games it will boost itself to the max clockspeed. This is done to minimize heat and energy consumption. However, this technology seems to have failed on Apple's computers. If your battery is NOT inside your laptop it will stay at 1 GHz no matter what you would do. This will slow down your computer and consequentially you can't make use of the computers' true potential.

Whether this problem is present on all MacBook Pro computers is however still unknown as this problem has recently been discovered. It is also uknown whether the newly released MacBook computers are touched by the same problem since they use the same processors.

I encourage everyone to test their computers with Cinebench to check whether they are affected by the problem and report it here. Remove the battery from your laptop, run all test in Cinebench and then do the same but with the battery inserted. Compare the numbers and see for yourself whether your computer is affected by the problem. You can see my benchmarks at http://imelika.net/Benchmarks/MacBook%20Pro

   
  • Bill DeVille Level 3 Level 3 (805 points)
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    May 21, 2006 5:46 AM (in response to Christian Sormarken)
    What fatal flaw? Where's the beef?

    I would never consider running my MBP without the battery inserted. That keeps the battery conditioned to full charge, and it won't be overcharged. I've been using PowerBooks that way for years and have gotten good battery life for years. I've got a 5 year old PowerBook battery that has never been removed from the computer. It still gives over an hour of operation on battery power. That was OK, as it traveled from home to office with AC available in both locations -- so I never bothered to buy a new battery.

    There's some valuable data on my MBP and I don't want to lose it. If I remove the battery I'm subject to a hard shutdown if AC power fails, with a risk of data loss. I would consider myself dumb to do that, especially as the Magsafe connector can be easily removed. So I see no problem -- much less a technology failure in Apple's computers -- if the CPUs don't dynamically adapt to load with no battery inserted in the computer. If it's true, I don't care.

    My CPUs do dynamically adjust speed to load. The battery is always inserted. There's no sane reason not to have the battery inserted, unless the battery is defective, in which case it should immediately be replaced.
    PowerMac DC 2.3, 5 GB RAM, 2 500 GB HD, Mac OS X (10.4.6), MacBook Pro 2.0, 2 GB RAM, 7200 rpm 100 GB HD
  • Anthony_01 Level 1 Level 1 (105 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2006 5:57 AM (in response to Bill DeVille)
    Bill,

    I don't think whether you care or not is a valid point. Christian pointed out a fact which, if true, is definitely a flaw.

    Further, insinuating that people are stupid and insane is not nice esp when it makes YOU look stupid. You say there is no 'SANE' reason to remove the battery. WHY? Because YOU think so? Based on your reasoning, who cares what you think!

    There is a VERY valid reason for removing the battery and 300 laptop users where I work do it all the time. It's called minimizing the weight factor.

    Notebooks are designed to work perfectly whether the battery is there or not. There is no reason to find excuses for something if it doesn't work right. I know Apple products are incredibly well made but they are still electronic parts and if something doesn't work then it doesn't work; and an investigation should be made to find out why and fix the issue.

    I will personally investigate Christian's claim next week and see if it holds up. I'm just a little peaved at the tone and attitude of your response as it's lacking and completely un-valid!

       

       
    MacBook Pro 17, 2GB Ram, 100GB 7200rpm HD, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
  • SteveJob\'sMinion Calculating status...
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    May 21, 2006 6:26 AM (in response to Anthony_01)
    Anthony, you and your 300 laptop users at work must be real pussie s. Weight factor? Are you ******* kidding me? That is not a valid reason. You say there is a "SANE" reason to remove the battery. Why Because YOU think so? Based on your reasoning, who cares what you think. You always this hypocritical Anthony "I'm too much of a ***** to carry an extra pound."
    17" MBP, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
  • Anthony_01 Level 1 Level 1 (105 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2006 6:31 AM (in response to SteveJob\'sMinion)
    Why people do what they do is no one's business but their own. You obviously don't work in an environment where constantly moving around with many items can become a burden. A notebook FYI, is not the only thing people carry when they travel, so yes, minimizing weight IS a valid reason for some people.

    Besides, the whole point of this thread is to look into a possible flaw, and not about stating personal opinions.

    Let's focus here.
    MacBook Pro 17, 2GB Ram, 100GB 7200rpm HD, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
  • noreason Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)
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    May 21, 2006 6:34 AM (in response to Anthony_01)
    Would you please stop being that rude... I am interested if this flaw really exists and continuing this personal fight might result in a closed thread...

    thx
    Powermac G5 Dual 2.5 gHz, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
  • black6 Level 2 Level 2 (160 points)
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    May 21, 2006 7:49 AM (in response to Christian Sormarken)
    Relying on a magsafe connector without a battery! I hope you back-up often as I would call that tempting fate.

    s
    MBP 2G, Mac OS X (10.4.6), I love my wife, I love my children; I 'like' my Mac
  • camhabib Level 2 Level 2 (195 points)
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    May 21, 2006 7:51 AM (in response to Christian Sormarken)
    I'm sorry, but I'm missing the fatal part of this "problem."
    Windows XP Pro
  • David Yoder1 Level 1 Level 1 (70 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2006 7:53 AM (in response to black6)
    Nothing a few strips of duct tape won't fix! Looks great on a new 17".


    Good point...
    Powerbook 1.25, Mac OS X (10.3.7)
  • David Ceddia Level 2 Level 2 (155 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2006 8:27 AM (in response to Christian Sormarken)
    I'm inclined to agree with Christian here. If the CPU is not being dynamically scaled, and is stuck at 1000MHz, then this is indeed a problem. Ok so maybe "fatal flaw" is exaggerating a little, but this is CERTAINLY a flaw. This means that the $2500 2GHz computer that you bought is stuck at HALF SPEED when you don't have the battery in.

    "Who the @#$! runs without the battery in?" you say? Well, that isn't really the issue at hand. Regardless of the opinion that running without battery is bad for it, or that the MagSafe connector will probably unplug (because it probably will if you move around too much), this is a valid concern for those who DO run with the battery out. Nevermind why they do it. Nevermind telling them that they shouldn't use the computer how they do.

    It's not productive to tell people to completely avoid a logical use that causes a problem. What if the $500 air conditioning option in your brand new car didn't work, and you complained on a forum, and people said "WHY are you using the air conditioning? Just leave it alone, it'll be fine. You don't really need it. Open the freaking windows and get some fresh air." You'd be kinda annoyed, right? Ok. So it's a similar idea here. Stop telling him to never take the battery out.

    A few steps to follow to make sure your MagSafe doesn't get unplugged while your battery is out:
    1) Don't move the computer.
    2) Don't pull on the MagSafe connector.
    3) Don't trip on the cord. Tell your kids to do the same.
    4) Don't turn the power off in your house. And don't try this when there's a storm brewing, or a scheduled power outage, or anything else that will probably turn your computer off.

    The battery won't lose conditioning in the maybe 20 minutes you have it removed to try these tests.

    With that said, this is an interesting problem and it would be cool to see some benchmarks with and without the battery in, and see what happens. Surely there are a few scientist types out there who wouldn't mind pulling the battery out for a few minutes?

    Please end the bickering and help out with the science
    Mac mini 1.42GHz, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
  • Randall Schulz Level 3 Level 3 (800 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2006 8:21 AM (in response to camhabib)
    Apple has reduced heat output and extended battery life by making the processor speed more adaptive.

    This is fatal to those whose existence is centered around complaining about how they’re being screwed by Apple.


    RRS

    iMac 20" Core Duo, 2 GB; MacBook Pro 15" 2.0 GHz, 2 GB   Mac OS X (10.4.6)  
  • David Yoder1 Level 1 Level 1 (70 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2006 8:30 AM (in response to David Ceddia)
    I'd have to respectfully disagree with Mr. Ceddia on this, as I think even the broken AC comparison is a big exaggeration. I liken it closer to calling fish defective for not being able to ride bicycles.

    I would think considering the magsafe adapter's design, and the negative consequences of (repeated) power outages when it's inadvertently yanked out unexpectedly, it is unwise to ever use it without the battery installed.

    If a firmware fix could take care of it, why not. But it shouldn't be considered a problem.
    Powerbook 1.25, Mac OS X (10.3.7)
  • Allan Leedy Level 2 Level 2 (245 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2006 8:33 AM (in response to Randall Schulz)
    Apple has reduced heat output and extended battery
    life by making the processor speed more adaptive.

    This is fatal


    Randy, I assume you meant to say "vital"
    mbp 1,1 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
  • David Ceddia Level 2 Level 2 (155 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2006 8:40 AM (in response to David Yoder1)
    I think it would be fairly safe if you're using it in lid-closed mode, for instance. Why put the battery through lots of cycles if it isn't really needed?

    I'm honestly unsure of whether this is bad or not. I know that apple page says that 'working' the battery is good for it, and if you're going to store it, store it at 80% charge or something like that. But if you just leave it plugged in all the time, won't the battery eventually weaken due to lots of charge cycles? Wouldn't having it removed be better in this case? Anyone have some insight on this?
    Mac mini 1.42GHz, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
  • David Yoder1 Level 1 Level 1 (70 points)
    Currently Being Moderated
    May 21, 2006 8:45 AM (in response to David Ceddia)
    The battery isn't going through cycles once it is charged. It is maintained at that charge, but its longevity isn't affected.

    The negative consequences would be the power adapter becoming detached without the battery in, forcing the computer to shut down suddenly. That would not happen with the battery in. It's too easy to do that with the magsafe adapter in my opinion.
    Powerbook 1.25, Mac OS X (10.3.7)
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