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8388 Views 28 Replies Latest reply: May 21, 2006 7:25 PM by tapezor
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 5:46 AM (in response to Christian Sormarken)What fatal flaw? Where's the beef?
I would never consider running my MBP without the battery inserted. That keeps the battery conditioned to full charge, and it won't be overcharged. I've been using PowerBooks that way for years and have gotten good battery life for years. I've got a 5 year old PowerBook battery that has never been removed from the computer. It still gives over an hour of operation on battery power. That was OK, as it traveled from home to office with AC available in both locations -- so I never bothered to buy a new battery.
There's some valuable data on my MBP and I don't want to lose it. If I remove the battery I'm subject to a hard shutdown if AC power fails, with a risk of data loss. I would consider myself dumb to do that, especially as the Magsafe connector can be easily removed. So I see no problem -- much less a technology failure in Apple's computers -- if the CPUs don't dynamically adapt to load with no battery inserted in the computer. If it's true, I don't care.
My CPUs do dynamically adjust speed to load. The battery is always inserted. There's no sane reason not to have the battery inserted, unless the battery is defective, in which case it should immediately be replaced.PowerMac DC 2.3, 5 GB RAM, 2 500 GB HD, Mac OS X (10.4.6), MacBook Pro 2.0, 2 GB RAM, 7200 rpm 100 GB HD
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 5:57 AM (in response to Bill DeVille)Bill,
I don't think whether you care or not is a valid point. Christian pointed out a fact which, if true, is definitely a flaw.
Further, insinuating that people are stupid and insane is not nice esp when it makes YOU look stupid. You say there is no 'SANE' reason to remove the battery. WHY? Because YOU think so? Based on your reasoning, who cares what you think!
There is a VERY valid reason for removing the battery and 300 laptop users where I work do it all the time. It's called minimizing the weight factor.
Notebooks are designed to work perfectly whether the battery is there or not. There is no reason to find excuses for something if it doesn't work right. I know Apple products are incredibly well made but they are still electronic parts and if something doesn't work then it doesn't work; and an investigation should be made to find out why and fix the issue.
I will personally investigate Christian's claim next week and see if it holds up. I'm just a little peaved at the tone and attitude of your response as it's lacking and completely un-valid!
MacBook Pro 17, 2GB Ram, 100GB 7200rpm HD, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 6:26 AM (in response to Anthony_01)Anthony, you and your 300 laptop users at work must be real pussie s. Weight factor? Are you ******* kidding me? That is not a valid reason. You say there is a "SANE" reason to remove the battery. Why Because YOU think so? Based on your reasoning, who cares what you think. You always this hypocritical Anthony "I'm too much of a ***** to carry an extra pound."17" MBP, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 6:31 AM (in response to SteveJob\'sMinion)Why people do what they do is no one's business but their own. You obviously don't work in an environment where constantly moving around with many items can become a burden. A notebook FYI, is not the only thing people carry when they travel, so yes, minimizing weight IS a valid reason for some people.
Besides, the whole point of this thread is to look into a possible flaw, and not about stating personal opinions.
Let's focus here.MacBook Pro 17, 2GB Ram, 100GB 7200rpm HD, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 6:34 AM (in response to Anthony_01)Would you please stop being that rude... I am interested if this flaw really exists and continuing this personal fight might result in a closed thread...
thxPowermac G5 Dual 2.5 gHz, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 7:49 AM (in response to Christian Sormarken)Relying on a magsafe connector without a battery! I hope you back-up often as I would call that tempting fate.
sMBP 2G, Mac OS X (10.4.6), I love my wife, I love my children; I 'like' my Mac
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 8:27 AM (in response to Christian Sormarken)I'm inclined to agree with Christian here. If the CPU is not being dynamically scaled, and is stuck at 1000MHz, then this is indeed a problem. Ok so maybe "fatal flaw" is exaggerating a little, but this is CERTAINLY a flaw. This means that the $2500 2GHz computer that you bought is stuck at HALF SPEED when you don't have the battery in.
"Who the @#$! runs without the battery in?" you say? Well, that isn't really the issue at hand. Regardless of the opinion that running without battery is bad for it, or that the MagSafe connector will probably unplug (because it probably will if you move around too much), this is a valid concern for those who DO run with the battery out. Nevermind why they do it. Nevermind telling them that they shouldn't use the computer how they do.
It's not productive to tell people to completely avoid a logical use that causes a problem. What if the $500 air conditioning option in your brand new car didn't work, and you complained on a forum, and people said "WHY are you using the air conditioning? Just leave it alone, it'll be fine. You don't really need it. Open the freaking windows and get some fresh air." You'd be kinda annoyed, right? Ok. So it's a similar idea here. Stop telling him to never take the battery out.
A few steps to follow to make sure your MagSafe doesn't get unplugged while your battery is out:
1) Don't move the computer.
2) Don't pull on the MagSafe connector.
3) Don't trip on the cord. Tell your kids to do the same.
4) Don't turn the power off in your house. And don't try this when there's a storm brewing, or a scheduled power outage, or anything else that will probably turn your computer off.
The battery won't lose conditioning in the maybe 20 minutes you have it removed to try these tests.
With that said, this is an interesting problem and it would be cool to see some benchmarks with and without the battery in, and see what happens. Surely there are a few scientist types out there who wouldn't mind pulling the battery out for a few minutes?
Please end the bickering and help out with the scienceMac mini 1.42GHz, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 8:21 AM (in response to camhabib)Apple has reduced heat output and extended battery life by making the processor speed more adaptive.
This is fatal to those whose existence is centered around complaining about how they’re being screwed by Apple.
iMac 20" Core Duo, 2 GB; MacBook Pro 15" 2.0 GHz, 2 GB Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 8:30 AM (in response to David Ceddia)I'd have to respectfully disagree with Mr. Ceddia on this, as I think even the broken AC comparison is a big exaggeration. I liken it closer to calling fish defective for not being able to ride bicycles.
I would think considering the magsafe adapter's design, and the negative consequences of (repeated) power outages when it's inadvertently yanked out unexpectedly, it is unwise to ever use it without the battery installed.
If a firmware fix could take care of it, why not. But it shouldn't be considered a problem.Powerbook 1.25, Mac OS X (10.3.7)
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 8:33 AM (in response to Randall Schulz)
Apple has reduced heat output and extended battery
life by making the processor speed more adaptive.
This is fatal
Randy, I assume you meant to say "vital"mbp 1,1 2.0 GHz, 2 GB, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 8:40 AM (in response to David Yoder1)I think it would be fairly safe if you're using it in lid-closed mode, for instance. Why put the battery through lots of cycles if it isn't really needed?
I'm honestly unsure of whether this is bad or not. I know that apple page says that 'working' the battery is good for it, and if you're going to store it, store it at 80% charge or something like that. But if you just leave it plugged in all the time, won't the battery eventually weaken due to lots of charge cycles? Wouldn't having it removed be better in this case? Anyone have some insight on this?Mac mini 1.42GHz, Mac OS X (10.4.6)
Currently Being ModeratedMay 21, 2006 8:45 AM (in response to David Ceddia)The battery isn't going through cycles once it is charged. It is maintained at that charge, but its longevity isn't affected.
The negative consequences would be the power adapter becoming detached without the battery in, forcing the computer to shut down suddenly. That would not happen with the battery in. It's too easy to do that with the magsafe adapter in my opinion.Powerbook 1.25, Mac OS X (10.3.7)