Q: Need recommendation for bootable External HD for CCC

PlotinusVeritas wrote:

 

I drop working files to 2 formatted external HD then later on make another redundant copy and also drop those files online on offsite servers.

The OP's needs do not require that.

A TC and CCC Clone will work better for her needs than what you are suggesting.

Tony T1 

The OP's needs do not require that.

Correct, however you were replying to myself, ....unless that was a mistake.

Yes, to the OP.. get CCC, make running incremental backups to your external cloned HD.

PlotinusVeritas wrote:

Are you claiming Pondini was wrong?

I'm claiming that you distort & misrepresent what Jim has said. His Time Machine vs. Clones and Archives summarizes the advantages & disadvantages of each backup method. Like so many here (myself included) have been suggesting, he recommends using both Time Machine & clone backups to mitigate the disadvantages of each of them.

With data backed up, Ive no worry about an 'immediately fresh HD clone' with either SuperDuper or CCC,.

 

The most that would be lost by updating a clone once a week or two is a few bookmarks and maybe an APP or two.

You will lose more than that. You may not realize it but behind the scenes the OS is constantly updating databases, system level & "by host" user preferences, runtime configurations, file system metadata, & much more. And if you are like most users, over a week or two you will probably change a few other things yourself, like Finder window sizes, positions & view modes; application workspace settings; maybe some photo or music metadata; & other things that are not saved inside your document files.

Your drop-copied archival backups of your working files won't save any of that.

On the other hand, a clone saves a single "snapshot" of the state of all this stuff at one moment in time; TM backups save many of them, each at a different time. That's why you can boot from a clone & resume working with everything just like it was when it was made, or restore from a TM backup with everything just like it was at its creation time.

In short, none of these backup methods is without shortcomings compared to the others. If you consider only the strengths of any them while ignoring their weaknesses, you won't be able to make the best choice(s) for your own needs, much less the needs of others.

You can get the Anker enclosure for less $$ and still have free shipping at Amazon if you have Amazon Prime account or a $35 order.

http://www.amazon.com/Anker®-eSATA-Enclosure-2-5-Inch-12-5mm/dp/B005B5G4S6/ref=s r_sp-atf_title_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1384613854&sr=1-1&keywords=anker+2. 5+enclosure

That said, Plotinus Veritas, I've seen Vantec's products show up on other sites being recommended. Their USB 2.0 only enclosure is under $10  and USB 3.0/2.0 is $14.99 Amazon Prime and $19.99 locally (Atlanta) at Micro Center. Would appreciate your opinion on Vantec if you have one.

Thank you.

Yes I know the strengths and weaknesses of all

i don't use document files in the OS,.. anything I save create modify vital data-wise is always in 2 or 3 folders perpetually saved, copied, and put on servers.

As for having a 2 week old clone and losing some OS settings or bookmarks, window sizes etc etc....all of this is a worthless irrelevancy, ....couldn't give a hoot about that since it has nothing to do with vital data loss

the only absolute strength is data redundancy with NO weaknesses

----*The main tragic weakness you don't confess to is that Time machine is huge Rubics cube of potential error codes, failures and a giant black hole of titanic data loss.  

You know very well that 95% of those using Time machine are using NOTHING else!   Thats a tragedy in waiting

PlotinusVeritas wrote:

 

You know very well that 95% of those using Time machine are using NOTHING else!   Thats a tragedy in waiting

and before TM, they used nothing, even though they knew that they should be backing up. 

PlotinusVeritas wrote:

Yes I know the strengths and weaknesses of all

So why don't you mention them when giving advice to others?

i don't use document files in the OS,.. anything I save create modify vital data-wise is always in 2 or 3 folders perpetually saved, copied, and put on servers.

How many users do you think do something like that, or would even find it practical?

As for having a 2 week old clone and losing some OS settings or bookmarks, window sizes etc etc....all of this is a worthless irrelevancy, ....couldn't give a hoot about that since it has nothing to do with vital data loss

For most of us, all that "etc." is not "worthless irrelevancy." The whole point of having an up-to-date clone is to be able to get back to right where everything was when it was made with minimum downtime -- in case you have forgotten, that is something you yourself mentioned earlier in this discussion. Likewise, a TM restore to get everything back to a former state -- even one with an older OS version -- is a lot quicker than everything you would have to do to reinstall the OS & all your apps, revert all your documents that can't be opened in a different format the newer OS has converted them to, & so on.

the only absolute strength is data redundancy with NO weaknesses

That doesn't exist in the real world. All backup methods have weaknesses. (Please see your first comment above & argue with yourself if you dispute this.)

For those of us stuck living in the real world, the best we can do is redundancy not just in where we store our backups, but also in how we make them. Personally, I think that should include at least one automatic backup method that runs often enough that essentially anything I might want retrieve from a backup is both available & easy to find & retrieve.

Call me crazy or lazy, but I use a Mac to make things easier to do, not to create extra work that the machine is better suited to do & less likely to make errors while doing it than I am. I've got better -- and far more productive -- things to do than constantly manually backing up all my document files & keeping track of which versions of them are on which drives. I'm also realistic enough about it to know that from time to time I'm going to forget to back up something or something important but unrelated to what I do on a computer is going to demand my attention & prevent me from making timely backups.

In short, no backup solution is worth considering unless it is a practical one people will actually use. That won't be the same for everyone.

R C-R Texas, USA 

That doesn't exist in the real world. All backup methods have weaknesses.

No SINGLE backup/archive is an "absolute strength",.. I was, as mentioned earlier, referring to multiple platform redundancy, Optical, magnetic, tape, magneto-optical, online servers.

If you can say:  "my house, my state, the entire country (lol) slipped off the face of the earth,....but my data is still secure", then youre doing good.

Practical?     You mean lazy, ....most people are lazy, and Time Machines middle name IS lazy, most people want backups to just 'happen' or one push of a button,...people want an invisible software-monkey to do everything behind the curtains,.

A HD clone only takes 2 clicks and sit back for an hour for it to finish, how tough is that?

...call me old fashioned but I VERIFY my data is there,... and most people do NOT do that with Time Machine until is too late.

*If you want a lazy way to go, that can spit out 1000 error codes, and erases your older data without telling you (yes, it does, as Pondini himself mentions), then Time machine is "perfect".

And as I said 95% of everyone uses ONLY time machine.....not only a bad idea for data redundancy, but far from the BEST data protection methodology.

R C-R Texas, USA 

In short, no backup solution is worth considering unless it is a practical one people will actually use.

What people USE, and what they SHOULD use are 2 totally diff. things, as you very well know.

People should be asking "what is BEST" in consideration,.... not "what is an easy automatic software controlled thing can I use that completely leaves me in the dark, maybe an automatic black hole of data backups that I will only verify my data is really there when I encounter an emergency"

No backup/ archive is perfect, some are far far better than others.  By practical you imply lazy, which I myself am as well,... and drag and dropping folders filled with files to multiple external docked drives is supremely EASY.

dragging to a FTP server across the planet onto a server is supremely easy!

Tony T1 

and before TM, they used nothing

Nah, Time machine is just a complex backup-monkey. The smart people used to backup onto external formatted drives.  However both before and NOW, people make the Titanic error in thinking ANYTHING is safe on their computer...

....worse still is anyone who thinks any computer is a data storage device, really bad idea.   But those folks before and after TM, generally dont back their data up.

Worst thing most people do, is to think data safe on ONE external drive, another really bad idea.

As said, the etched in stone golden rule is redundancy, redundancy, redundancy. And second rule is make them autonomous in locations (online, in safes, in fireproof boxes etc.).

PlotinusVeritas wrote:

And as I said 95% of everyone uses ONLY time machine.....

95% of all statistics are made up by people who think they know more than they do.

You know very well...., users are in the range of 90% or 95%, the fact that 'nearly all' of them for general use of data protection involve time machine 'only'.

100% of people than rely on a single data archive nexus will come to regret it

100% of professional multinational corporations are NOT using Time Machine, rather tape, optical, server farms, and for individual stations, an updating clone(s).

There is a 100% certainty of ferromagnetic depolarization on any stored conventional hard drive peaking between 4-8 years (10 years max).

Given the second law of thermodynamics, any and all current mfg. HD will, under perfect storage conditions tend themselves to depolarization and a point will be reached, even if the HD mechanism is perfect, that the ferromagnetic read/write surface of the platter inside the HD will entropy to the point of no return for data extraction.

The one bright spot on the horizon will be soon to come cheap commercial carborundum "sapphire burners"

Binary laser burning on silver backed synthetic sapphire disks.

such disks are acid resistant, write-once, impervious to heat and cold, and rated for something like 100,000 years.

With such disks, you could bury them in the sand for endless 1000s of years and still retrieve data perfectly.

Thanks to the OP for letting a discussion go on.     Hugs and Peace

PlotinusVeritas wrote:

You know very well....

What I (& I'm sure almost everyone else) knows very well is that you are just guessing about things that you could not possibly know, presenting them as facts when they clearly are not.

You often post comments that are misleading or just flat wrong, & then backpedal in followup posts claiming you meant something else. Some of what you post is so vague & imprecise that it is essentially devoid of any useful meaning. Some of it is simply absurd or pointless rambling.

As I'm pretty sure this is blatantly obvious to everyone who has followed this discussion this far, I see no reason to continue it.

R C-R Texas, USA

What I (& I'm sure almost everyone else) knows very well is that you are just guessing about things....

argumentum ad absurdum.

In logical discussions a "generalization is still a truism". The rest are claims and ad hominem

The fact is that - "a vast majority of those who actually protect their data use one backup method only", ....as for Mac users that would be Time machine

In Greek debates, any who have stated that "I see no reason to continue this discussion" (as you have posited) was tantamount to a concession.

For both the original poster, and others, the premise is to:

1. present all options, and especially whatever (many) flaws they may have

2. present other options as common sense redundancy plans

3. Assist as best possible anyone looking for (as per this post) best (or least shortcomings) data storage option(s)

Below is a list of common errors you may encounter with Time Machine .....that you will never see using a HD clone, or using simplex formatted backup drives.

TIME MACHINE BACKUP  FAILURES

C1.  Initial Backup Failed

C2.  Other Backup Fails

C3.  ". . . an error occurred while copying files . . . "

     or "Aborting backup because indexing a file failed"

C4.  "The backup disk is full" or ". . . almost full" or "This backup is too large . . ."

C5.  "You do not have appropriate . . . privileges to save file ".<nnnnnnn>" in folder <TM drive >"

C6.  "The backup volume is read only."

C7.  "Error (12): Link of previous volume failed."

C8.  Backup fails after Logic Board replacement.

C9.  "The back-up disk image could not be created."

C10.  "Error: (-50) Creating directory" or "error ... while creating the backup folder."

C11.  Drive does not appear to be the correct backup volume for this computer (Cookies do not match).

C12. "The Backup disk image ... sparsebundle ... is already in use."

C13. " . . . Time Machine must create a new backup for you."

C14.  "Backup volume could not be mounted."

C15.  "The identity of the backup disk has changed ..."

C16.  "The network backup disk does not support the required AFP features."

C17.  " . . . sparse bundle could not be accessed (error -1)"

C18.  ". . . ran out of space unexpectedly"

C19.  "Backup delayed" or "The backup disk is not available"

OTHER  PROBLEMS  RUNNING  TIME MACHINE BACKUPS

D1.  Stuck in "Preparing" or "Calculating changes"

D2.  Backup is slow or seems "hung"

D3.  TM is doing a full backup for no good reason

D4.  My backups seem too large

D5.  Backups seem to run ok, but nothing gets backed-up

D6.  How to Cancel a Backup, or if it won't cancel

D7.  All Backups are Full Backups

D8.  Some Applications that may cause problems

D9.  Amount to be backed-up changes or doesn't match actual

D10. Applications, Library, and/or System folders not backed-up, or periodic large backups

PROBLEMS  VIEWING,  RESTORING, or  DELETING  TIME MACHINE BACKUPS

E1.  Backups were deleted unexpectedly

E2.  I can't see some backups

E3.  I can't see or restore from backups for a disk/partition that's no longer connected

E4.  Time Machine "Star Wars" won't display properly, or crashes

E5.  Can’t Restore from Address Book

E6.  Can't empty the trash after deleting backups via the Finder

E7.  TM won't restore some files: names / capitalization

E8.  After a full restore, Mac won't start up, or kernel panics.

E9.  Permissions problems restoring iPhoto Library

E10. Permissions problems restoring folder contents

E11. Can't see old backups via Mail (on Mountain Lion)

~veritas et lux