Q: QuickTime convert .avi to .mov with OS X Mavericks

Exactly. It's just the fact that Apple dicided to throw away functions that were useful and sometimes even crucial for efficient workflow.
What's the point of bringing out a state of the art Mac Pro and reducing the software that runs on it to the level of a Mobile OS??

Rachel, the VLC solution has been posted several times before in this thread, and the main question is not how to play movies: almost everybody here knows that there are several other players that can do the job, but the main problem is Quicklook not being able to preview AVI and other formats even if you installed Perian of Flip4Mac, or even AVI movie icons not being rendered.

What's more, looks like Apple closed the framework so there's no possibility to adapt such 3rd. party solutions to the new QT. Apple seems to want an unified framework for both mobile and desktop, using its own formats, so anything you can store in iCloud in your desktop can be retrieved and played in your iphone or ipad without problems.

The problem here is that instead of a filter to prevent other file formats, those that can't be played in mobile devices, to be stored in iCloud, or even a warning, so the user knows what will happen, its decission has been to simply remove support for every other format. That's treating users as stupids, if you ask me. For example, they don't even ask you if you want to convert your movie to .MOV when you try to play it with QTX, they simply convert it without asking. And some of us cannot convert all our movies, it's simply not possible, I have other devices that  will not read MOV movies (my TV set, f.ex.). That's why I've rolled back to Snow Leopard.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

thats the point ferran ....

I would like to agree: we fixed now the problem with the "new QuickTime" which should be called "AV Foundation", but we still have the problem how to "quickly view" videos (called QuickLook, the "eye" in the Finder's control bar).

Just to summarize: either people install and/or use the old QuickTime (32 bit) and their extensions (Perian, Flip4Mac), or use open source media players (which are independent of Apple technologicy), or just downgrade their system.

Now we are talking about how to quickly view media (without opening it). And this features is not available anymore for many video files / formats. Okay so far?

If we talk about QuickLook, then I must say (and forward-looking a big sorry because I guess many people will disagree) that QuickLook was - in my opionion - never a really good solution.

It works perfectly if I just select videos, but I was really astonished when I tried it the first time and selected a folder which contains videos - and QuickLook displayed folder information (and no button / feature to play all the videos inside the folder). And: it is a nice way to watch videos, but I prefer to watch the videos in fullscreen mode. No settings, no way...

So: if you agree so far and you like to watch videos "quick & easy", independent of what you select (folders, files), and you like fullscreen playback, then may be you like this forum discussion.

If not: you can continue to ask Apple to upgrade their (QuickLook) features, but it will (in my opionion) not happen.

Rachel, the VLC solution has been posted several times before in this thread, and the main question is not how to play movies: almost everybody here knows that there are several other players that can do the job, but the main problem is Quicklook not being able to preview AVI and other formats even if you installed Perian of Flip4Mac, or even AVI movie icons not being rendered.

1) While there have been many "solutions" advanced during this discussion, they all fall into one of three basic categories:

a) Use a media player app that will play the specific AVI content natively,

b) Where possible, modify the your system so that the AVI content will play in your current player, and

c) Convert the AVI content to compression formats that are natively compatiple with the player you wish to employ.

2) With regard to the topic of discussion here, if you re-read the original poster's question, it delt exclusively with how to open and play an AVI file whithout the file being automatically being converted to a different compression format. There was no mention of QL or changes to what it can or cannot preview under the new OS.

3) QL remains compatible with the AVI file container but appears to now share some of the QT X v10.3 codec filtering routines that can prevent use of the QL preview feature as seen below:

4) Perian and similar add-on codec component plug-ins are designed to work with QT based apps that actually open the file data in an application which uses the plug-in codec to decode/translate the stored data for rendering/playback. On the other hand, QL does not actually open the file in any application and it has yet to be established just what mechanism is used for previewing the various forms of content. If you have such knowledge, please share it with us.

What's more, looks like Apple closed the framework so there's no possibility to adapt such 3rd. party solutions to the new QT. Apple seems to want an unified framework for both mobile and desktop, using its own formats, so anything you can store in iCloud in your desktop can be retrieved and played in your iphone or ipad without problems.

5) While Perian may not be used by QT X v10.3 for playback it is still used by the avconvert routined which is called by the AV foundation. Without it you can get messages like this:

or this:

The problem here is that instead of a filter to prevent other file formats, those that can't be played in mobile devices, to be stored in iCloud, or even a warning, so the user knows what will happen, its decission has been to simply remove support for every other format. That's treating users as stupids, if you ask me. For example, they don't even ask you if you want to convert your movie to .MOV when you try to play it with QTX, they simply convert it without asking. And some of us cannot convert all our movies, it's simply not possible, I have other devices that  will not read MOV movies (my TV set, f.ex.). That's why I've rolled back to Snow Leopard.

6) Incorrect. The filtering is still in place in the decision tree used to decide whether or not to perform a conversion, which codecs to convert or pass through, and to which codec the source data is to be targeted. Further, the fact that the content can be converted proves that decoding support is still present and has not been removed as you insist.

7) I do, however, agree that it would be nice if Apple QT X Player app programming technicians had included a modal box explaing that the file being loaded whould have to be converted and asking if the user would like to continue with the conversion operation or abort the file. I can only guess at this point that Apple programmers must be assuming that users failing to use the AV Convert feature now built into the Finder itself must want QT X v10.3, Keynot, or similar apps to perform the conversion within the app being used rather than performing the conversion manually.

For me, both QT X v10.3 auto-conversion and QL preview issues are non-issues. Like millions of other users, all of my library content is already in QT X v10.3 and QL compatible file/compression formats and I have no problem viewing them and no need to convert them. As to previewing content, I prefer to do my "proofing" in the player apps which will be used for actual playback since I convert, store, and delete an average of 1 TB of content a month working on my private video library and do not want to later discover that a "preview" of my content was inconsistent with player playback. Frankly, I am more concerned with the issues relating to QT compression formats like Apple Animation, AIC, PNG, and DV streams, which, while I can live without them, would force me to find alternative workflows if these issues are deliberate and not a programming oversight.

I would like to agree: we fixed now the problem with the "new QuickTime" which should be called "AV Foundation", but we still have the problem how to "quickly view" videos (called QuickLook, the "eye" in the Finder's control bar).

 

Just to summarize: either people install and/or use the old QuickTime (32 bit) and their extensions (Perian, Flip4Mac), or use open source media players (which are independent of Apple technologicy), or just downgrade their system.

 

Now we are talking about how to quickly view media (without opening it). And this features is not available anymore for many video files / formats. Okay so far?

 

If we talk about QuickLook, then I must say (and forward-looking a big sorry because I guess many people will disagree) that QuickLook was - in my opionion - never a really good solution.

 

It works perfectly if I just select videos, but I was really astonished when I tried it the first time and selected a folder which contains videos - and QuickLook displayed folder information (and no button / feature to play all the videos inside the folder). And: it is a nice way to watch videos, but I prefer to watch the videos in fullscreen mode. No settings, no way...

 

So: if you agree so far and you like to watch videos "quick & easy", independent of what you select (folders, files), and you like fullscreen playback, then may be you like this forum discussion.

 

If not: you can continue to ask Apple to upgrade their (QuickLook) features, but it will (in my opionion) not happen.

While I can readily understand why more recent Mac users may like the QL (and I do use it myself from within the Mail app to "preview" attachments), as a long-term QT user, I have never really become used to its use at the Finder level. I find it just as simple to simultaneously open 30 or 40 media files in a QT player and spot-check or scan the content to re-name or re-locate files and/or extract segemets for editing—sometimes within the same app. Just one more opinion... for whatever its worth.

For her job, my wife makes a lot of PowerPoint presentations, and she uses alot of short videos, like 2 mins each or so. She has a huge library of such videos, and QL is a great tool to quickly browse and preview all those short videos and select which one she wants. These videos come from diferent sources -youtube, recorded with mobile phone or videocam, converted from videotape, extracted from CD/DVD, etc.– Nearly NONE of them are .mov, and they are neither going to be played in a mobile phone or tablet nor stored in iCloud. She doesn't need to convert them to any other format as she can preview and use them in the format they are now. Well, at least in Snow Leopard.

Upgrading to Mavericks would mean converting ALL those movies to .mov if she still wants to preview them, while she has been previewing and using them without a problem until now without any conversion. Why should she? Just because Apple wants it that way?

After I tried to upgrade to Mavericks and realized of that QL issue, she told me that she'll stay with Snow Leopard too.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

BTW, I consider myself a long time QT user, I use it since it was 68k -System 7-, so I'm as used to it as you can be, but I still find QuickLook a great preview tool.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

For her job, my wife makes a lot of PowerPoint presentations, and she uses alot of short videos, like 2 mins each or so. She has a huge library of such videos, and QL is a great tool to quickly browse and preview all those short videos and select which one she wants. These videos come from diferent sources -youtube, recorded with mobile phone or videocam, converted from videotape, extracted from CD/DVD, etc.– Nearly NONE of them are .mov, and they are neither going to be played in a mobile phone or tablet nor stored in iCloud. She doesn't need to convert them to any other format as she can preview and use them in the format they are now. Well, at least in Snow Leopard.

I find it somewhat amusing that you feel Apple should support a file type (which it still does) introduced by Microsoft in 1992 which mainly employs legacy codecs predominantly associated with Microsoft operating systems (which may or may not be available for use on the Mac) and proprietary codecs marketed and maintained by third-party software producers to create presentations in an application developed by Microsoft for playback targeted for non-Apple mobile devices—especially in view of the fact that much of the recorded, extracted, and/or converted file content could have just as easily been stored in a format which is natively compatible with both Microsoft and Mac operating systems but wasn't.

Upgrading to Mavericks would mean converting ALL those movies to .mov if she still wants to preview them, while she has been previewing and using them without a problem until now without any conversion. Why should she? Just because Apple wants it that way?

The handwriting has been written on the walls for years. Before the introduction of QT, negotiations were ongoing to secure the rights for use of MPEG-4 AVC (H.264) codec to be targeted as a tremendously efficient, highly scaleable default Mac system video compression format. For at least 8 years there have been articles describing the general direction video compression development was taking in both home and commercial use in view of the ever increasing use of higher display resolutions and predicting the inevitable switch to and dominance of these more modern codecs with improved profile/level associated feastures. If you and/or your wife choose to delay or never convert you content or opt to never upgrade your systems beyound their current levels, that, of course is a personal chice and I would not attempt to convince you to do otherwise. But then, in a similar manner, I also don't expect Apple to discontinue development of their video software simply to satisfy your desire to remain stalled where you are now located.

After I tried to upgrade to Mavericks and realized of that QL issue, she told me that she'll stay with Snow Leopard too.

Obviously QL is an essential part of your workflow whereas, for me, it is simply an interesting innovation that, on rare occasions, is convenient to use. I expect there are as many opinions regarding its usefulness as there are users and each opinion should be accorded its fair worth.

BTW, I consider myself a long time QT user, I use it since it was 68k -System 7-, so I'm as used to it as you can be, but I still find QuickLook a great preview tool.

Then I must assume you had a fair idea of what was coming since 2005 (or at least since the introduction of Mac OS X v10.6 and 10.7) and simply chose to ignore the ramifications.

My wife has been using PC/Win for several years, only recently, like three or four years ago, she switched to Mac partly because I convinced her it was a good choice, but also because she was going to be able to use all his data in the new computer. That would have been impossible, wouldn't be true anymore with Mavericks, it would be not a good choice anymore, if she has to convert all his movie clips to what Apple wants. Looks like Apple wants to make it more difficult for new switchers to switch to Mac :¬P

Anyway, you made clear your POV -Apple doesn't have to support legacy video formats, it's QT normal and expected evolution-, and I think I made clear mine as well -Apple has chosen to ignore what users have been using for years and doesn't allow Finder support for these legacy formats not even by 3rd party libs- . I will not argue with you any longer, it's a waste of time: I will not change your mind, you won't change mine.

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

Anyway, you made clear your POV -Apple doesn't have to support legacy video formats, it's QT normal and expected evolution-, and I think I made clear mine as well -Apple has chosen to ignore what users have been using for years and doesn't allow Finder support for these legacy formats not even by 3rd party libs- . I will not argue with you any longer, it's a waste of time: I will not change your mind, you won't change mine.

I appologize if you considered my response to your posts to be argumentative or adversarial. My original intentions was to point out what I considered to be misconceptions on your part which which are contradicted by the observation/examination of the new software at work under Mavericks. As previously stated, it was not my intention to get you to do anything you do not want to do but rather provide a fuller understanding of the situation which might allow you to modify your current workflow slightly to accomodate at least some of the current changes.

My wife has been using PC/Win for several years, only recently, like three or four years ago, she switched to Mac partly because I convinced her it was a good choice, but also because she was going to be able to use all his data in the new computer. That would have been impossible, wouldn't be true anymore with Mavericks, it would be not a good choice anymore, if she has to convert all his movie clips to what Apple wants. Looks like Apple wants to make it more difficult for new switchers to switch to Mac :¬P

Have you considered pointing out to her that use of a Motion JPEG video codec along with a Linear PCM audio codec in an AVI file container would retain compatibility with both the PC/Windows and current Mac/Mavericks worlds? This is a rather common video codec combination used by many digital cameras and is well suited to both archival level file storage for editing purposes and distribution level files depending on quality settings. Not suggesting that she immediately convert all of her content such a compression format but am suggesting that, when available as part of her workflow, this type of AVI file would currently provide multi-system compatibity—even with Mavericks QL.

Jon, I can see what you mean, but you are talking, of course, from the point of view of someone that obviously knows about computers and video. My wife  doesn't know anything about computers or video, she doesn't even WANT to know about these matters, she ony wants her stuff to work on the computer she's using to do her job. And she's fortunate to have someone near who knows a little about computers, but she asks me only when some thing on her computer stops working, I did only set it up, installed things like Office, Perian, etc, and that's all. Convert videos? Why? Current video clips DO work.

Do you see what I mean now? You talk about MotionJPEG, and LinearPCM, and audio codecs, and video containers… Most users don't know ANYTHING about ANY of these things, they just want their computer to work, period. Many don't  have someone near with knowlegde on computers. And for many of them, if they update to Mavericks QL will stop working with their videos, QTX will convert them without asking…

Saluditos,

Ferrán.

That's exactly the point.

A few years ago. Apple bragged to be the company where everything "just worked". Remember the "Hello, I am a Mac" campaign? It was all about this. "I'm a Mac, I can do just about anything, make movies, do this, do that... It just works out of the box". That wasn't so long ago.

Whith Quicktime 7 (Pro), it was exactly that. We could do just about anything with movies. Watch them, cut/copy/paste, rotate them, add effects (okay, I never really used that, but... you know), extract the audio, even add masks and subtitles... And best of all, we could open pretty much ANY codec we wanted. AND also export them to ANY other Codec we wanted.

Then came Quicktime X, and gone were all these functions. We could just WATCH movies – and export them to the web, but that was it, more or less. And we couldn't even watch ALL of them, because some codecs weren't supported anymore. But luckily for us, we could keep Quicktime 7. And there was Perian. And VLC. And Flip4Mac. But then already, I thougt to myself: That's not the Quicktime I used to like – that's not what Apple used to be for me. "Making things easy" – Absolutely! But reducing things so they don't work anymore? No way.

(There were other things going in the same direction – i.e. that desaster about Final Cut Pro X with all these important features just gone... iCloud dropping the picture galleries from MobileMe. Dropping the "save as.." function in TextEdit. etc etc)

And now, with MavX, they're going even a step further. They won't let us open our old movies anymore (we need third party software for that). AND  they also don't leave us any choise about what we want to do with these old movies. They just convert them, without even thinking about asking. And above all: They don't even let us take a glance at the content!! The Icon is gone, Quick Look is gone! So if we had to choose what to do with our old library - say, to decide if we wanted to convert all these files or not – we'd have to open them up in VLC, close them again and then let Quicktime X convert them in a way that we have no control over.

(I'm talking about the vast majority of users here who are not using Converter or FCP X, okay?)

That's a HUGE step backwards. Thats wrong on so many levels. Everything that Quicktime was about – simplicity, easy understanding and handling, fun – has turned into some sort of patronizing peace of software that makes my life much more complicated than it was before. It's really annoying. Because it does not make ANY sense whatsoever. Except of course, for Apple's developpers who don't have to write complicated software anymore.

Apple are not thinking about the users anymore. They are thinking about themselves. What's easiest for THEM. And what's making the most money. It's clearly the wrong direction.

First I would like to say that I am happy that Jon explained his point of view a little bit more compliant after the discussion with Ferrán.

With regard to the topic of discussion here, if you re-read the original poster's question, it delt exclusively with how to open and play an AVI file whithout the file being automatically being converted to a different compression format. There was no mention of QL or changes to what it can or cannot preview under the new OS.

Yes - and after (hopefully) everybody learned that the old QuickTime (32 bit) is still available and is offering these features, there is now a new discussion: QuickLook.

Just because everything else is fixed (as far as Apple supports 32 bit) and now we are searching for the "last" problem.

QL does not actually open the file in any application and it has yet to be established just what mechanism is used for previewing the various forms of content. If you have such knowledge, please share it with us.

Of course QL is opening the files to playback its data. I am really astonished - sorry - that you are argueing here that people should know since several years that they should move to MPEG4 or H.264 - and now your are asking such a question. You should have such knowledge - displaying data without opening and reading its file (data) is impossible. Sorry!

While Perian may not be used by QT X v10.3 for playback it is still used by the avconvert routined which is called by the AV foundation.

And this is exactly the point: if Apple can open and convert the "incompatible" videos with a 64 bit application, then Apple could - as far as I can think - playback these videos. Without conversion.. at least they could do it in background and just playback the video in foreground. And this is exactly what people are asking for!

By the way: it is not avconvert. It is a class called "QTMovieModernizer" (as far as I know) which converts AVI and other video compression formats to MPEG4 or H.264.

For me, both QT X v10.3 auto-conversion and QL preview issues are non-issues. Like millions of other users, all of my library content is already in QT X v10.3 and QL compatible file/compression formats.

This is exactly the point: for you this is no problem. It might help if you just search at Google for something like "Mavericks QuickTime" - and you might learn that there are millions of people who have problems - and do not like what is going on.

In my opinion we should stop discussing this topic. There are people who like the way, Apple is moving to the "future"  (please use iCloud, convert your videos, stop synchronizing you data locally and give us all your data, do not think different, but follow our ideas), but hopefully there are people who have still in mind the good old Apple slogans.