Q: No more categories in numbers 3.0?

Hi Jerry,

I was replying to madmanuk, who clearly is focusing on the negative and I hope you won't that.  I didn't see your survey thread, didn't even know about it. I would have been interested.  I like hearing all sides of an issue.

Maybe like you, I have worked in and with big corporations, and with complex projects, and would be willing to bet Apple is on top of the issues. They don't want damage to their brand and are very likely pushing to improve iWorks the way they have iCloud (which until recently was "temperamental", to put it kindly) and Maps, which was seen as a disaster (and was a disaster as a rollout) but works quite well now.

It's a (somewhat sad for a Mac lover) fact of life that iOS devices drive the revenue and profitability numbers now (over double that of the Mac) so they've got to have a Numbers that works well there. They really have made big advances in that; the new Numbers there helps the brand. It's a mistake, I think, to assume that the iOS influence inevitably means a dumbing down, though it clearly has for now. The new iOS devices are already more powerful than notebooks of a few years ago, and many things are possible that weren't before. Remember when the experts scoffed at those little things called PCs that couldn't match the majesty and power of mainframes?

Best,

SG

SG,

No matter how deserved, there is no place for negative comments on persons or personalities on these discussions. Things can go downhill so fast when discussions get personal. I may not be the best at this, but I try to stay objective and I hope that if I stray you will gently remind me of my goal.

I find the iWork discussions to be exemplary for their general high level of civility and helpfulness.

Jerry

Jerry,

These iWork discussions are civil and helpful in large part because of the tone you guys have set for years.

Thanks for all the insights you have shared, and will continue to share, both on the old Numbers and the new Numbers, and Pages and other things.

Apple would be smart to give you an iPad for your service.

SG

SGIII wrote:

 

Hi Jerry,

 

I was replying to madmanuk, who clearly is focusing on the negative and I hope you won't that.  I didn't see your survey thread, didn't even know about it. I would have been interested.  I like hearing all sides of an issue.

 

I came to this discussion forum because I have an issue with Apple removing something I used daily, with no prior warning, even to the extent that it removed it from the spreadsheet I opened without asking.

I am focussing on the issue I came here for. Frankly it is ridiculous to see that as "focussing on the negative".

If you went to a hospital for treatment for a broken leg, and I told you to ignore the leg and stop being negative, you would quite rightly ask for another doctor.

So, mind your own business, and stop trying to excuse Apple's poor treatment of its customers.

Hi madmanuk,

But Apple has not removed anything from Numbers 2.3, without warning or otherwise.  We've all still got it, and can use it. It works just as well as it always has.

I think what you are saying is that you do not like their decisions on what to include or not include in a new product that they are not charging us for and not forcing us to use. And that's fine and normal. None of us are entirely happy with what they've done. One person's "essential feature" is another person's bloat.

But there are different ways to influence those decisions. Badmouthing Apple and the new product in these support forums, which are for helping other users understand and use the products, may or may not be the best way to do that. Just a thought.

SG

SGIII wrote:

 

Hi madmanuk,

 

But Apple has not removed anything from Numbers 2.3, without warning or otherwise.  We've all still got it, and can use it. It works just as well as it always has.

 

I am clearly wasting my breath. Whatever Apple do you are going to love it.

Removing features in product updates is not good for the customer, and it's not good for Apple.

People like you who "stand up for poor bullied Apple" help no one.

They screwed up, and they need to fix it.

I will call it as it is, and I neither require nor care about your approval.

I am clearly wasting my breath. Whatever Apple do you are going to love it.

Actually, I've given them a piece of my mind, using the channels they've provided, in as constructive and specific a way as I can.

Removing features in product updates is not good for the customer, and it's not good for Apple.

That's a MS approach that can lead to bloatware that some of us come to Apple to avoid. Also, some of the old features just aren't going to work cross-platform, which is increasingly important to many of us as a productivity enhancer.

People like you who "stand up for poor bullied Apple" help no one.

??

They screwed up, and they need to fix it.

Clearly it's not perfect. To increase the chances of them fixing it in a way more to your liking, perhaps you could go to your menu Numbers > Provide Numbers Feedback.

I will call it as it is, and I neither require nor care about your approval.

Of course. In theory we are all adults here.

SG

SGIII wrote:

 

Clearly it's not perfect. To increase the chances of them fixing it in a way more to your liking, perhaps you could go to your menu Numbers > Provide Numbers Feedback.

 

I will call it as it is, and I neither require nor care about your approval.

 

Of course. In theory we are all adults here.

 

I gave my constructive feedback through the appropriate feedback page on the day the new version of Numbers was released, and removed features from my spreadsheet without asking.

The only information since then I have seen from Apple made no mention of categories.

To be fair, Numbers is in no danger of becoming bloatware. Most people probably only use a few percent of Excel's capabilities, and Numbers was a fairly good fit for that few percent. However, I still think that quietly removing features is not a good idea, and it would seem I am not the only one.

Yes all adults, with the possible exception of a fanboy...

To be fair, Numbers is in no danger of becoming bloatware. Most people probably only use a few percent of Excel's capabilities, and Numbers was a fairly good fit for that few percent. However, I still think that quietly removing features is not a good idea, and it would seem I am not the only one.

I use both Excel and Numbers. I like both, for different uses. The old Numbers was indeed a "fairly good fit" but it just couldn't work properly cross-platform. The new Numbers can, a big advance that has real productivity implications for a lot of people.

The price of that, so far, has been making do without some important features. For me and probably many others, especially the many coming to Numbers through iOS, the tradeoff is well worth it. For others it's not, at least not yet. That's why we've all still got Numbers 2.3.

SG

Well, no, not really, 2.3 will not interoperate with Numbers for iOS, and it is not really convenient to have to remember which spreadsheets will open where and which will not. It might be a work around, but it is not and answer. For now I have regretfully been forced to use excel, which I do not really like.

I'm curious, have you found a way to use Excel with iOS?  I've been assuming the options there are not great (at least not compared with Numbers 3.0 on the Mac syncing with Numbers 2 on iOS, which is smooth).  But maybe they've gotten better?

SG

No, I have to use excel seperately just for this application.

Numbers on the mac syncs with my ipad mini, ipad and iphone, so I dont want to use the older version (and if i did - an accidental tap on the ipad would wreck a categories sheet).

I get thousands of lines of alerts from monitoring of computer infrastructure. I used to use categories to make sense out of them - but now I have to use pivot tables in excel.

Yes, if you're syncing, it's effectively the new Numbers or no Numbers.

Excel pivot tables are handy and flexible, as was the old Categories feature in Numbers.

I see upthread that you described using SUMIFS and I think COUNTIFS in a summary table so you already know about that, which works well in iOS.

And I would guess you already are handy with filters, which can't be set up in iOS but can at least be turned on and off there (under, I believe, Format>Table>Table Options). 

It can't hurt to give feedback again to Apple describing your use case for at least more flexible filtering in iOS, assuming full-blown categories just aren't possible on that platform (maybe they will become possible, given the rapid advances in processing power).

SG

Filtering is not viable.

The alert messages are multifarious, and I need counts for each.

If I was to filter on one, collect the count, filter the next, collect the count, it would take hours.

If you need a count of each of many different error messages and you don't know in advance how many distinct types there will be, here is a possible approach.  Not as convenient as a Pivot Table or Categories but it's pretty easy to set up and, unlike Categories, you could chart the results or use them in further calculations if you happened to need that:

The Data table contains the messages, which need to be sorted in ascending order.

In the Counts table, the formulas are:

A2:  =INDIRECT("Data::A2")

A3 and down: =IFERROR(T(INDEX(Data::A,MATCH(A2,Data::A,1)+1)),"")

B2 and down: =COUNTIF(Data::A,A2)

What this does is extract and place a list of distinct values in column A.  Then column B counts the occurrences of each distinct value.

You can expand the Counts table as needed to accommodate more distinct error messages. Just add rows until you get blanks in column A.

SG