-
All replies
-
Helpful answers
-
Nov 20, 2013 11:59 AM in response to ZV137by HuntsMan75,I seem to be reading a fair number of posts on problems with Mavericks and hard drives. The problem drives are all on external drives, right? Is anyone having problems with any intenal drives of a specific brand?
I'm not having any problems with Mavericks at all but I was considering getting a bigger backup drive for my system. Recommendations anyone?
-
by clintonfrombirmingham,Nov 20, 2013 12:08 PM in response to HuntsMan75
clintonfrombirmingham
Nov 20, 2013 12:08 PM
in response to HuntsMan75
Level 7 (30,009 points)
Mac OS XWhich model MacBook Pro do you have (e.g., "15-inch Late 2011" or "8,2") and are you going to be using this drive for backups only? General rule of thumb is to have 2-3x on a Time Machine backup in relation to your internal hard drive.
Call back...
Clinton
-
Nov 21, 2013 2:54 AM in response to HuntsMan75by MrJavaDeveloper,If I were you I would skip the so-called backup drives and build your own. Here are my arguments:
- You can get the drive you want that meets YOUR specifications
- If you need to pull it and put it into a system inside a unit, it can be done
- Probably cheaper, depending on what you buy
- You select an enclosure that has the interface(s) you want
- NO PROBLEMS WITH EXTERNAL DRIVER SOFTWARE!!!!!!!
- It can be used with Time Machine or any other backup software you want
- You won’t be getting a junk, inferior, or outdated drive
A lot of the vendors of “backup drives” put outdated or problematic drives into the backup units. I speculate that this is a way for them to dump outdated drives. The biggest problems is their reliance on software drivers to even make the drive work properly. For example, the MyBook series from WD is so reliant on using WD’s software that the power button won’t turn off the drive unless their drivers are installed. What an utterly stupid idea! Fine, if the drivers are up to date, but just read some of the posts on this site and others about the WD drivers wiping out all the data on a backup drive! Picture five or ten years of stored data going down the tubes just because the vendor didn’t keep up or test their systems with new OS releases.
There were a lot of problems with Seagate (and other) external drives that relied on their own proprietary software when Mountain Lion came out. This was probably because of Apple's 32->64 bit transition. I have yet to see a “pure” FireWire or USB drive malfunction on a Mac system, but enter the third party vendors own software, and IMHO it just spells trouble.
I could teach my dog to assemble an external unit. It isn’t rocket science, it’s usually about a 5 minute job, if even that.
-
Nov 21, 2013 12:03 PM in response to clintonfrombirminghamby R.K.Orion,@clintonofbirmingham and MrJavaDevloper
I'm actually asking if there are known specific HDs themselves that have problems. I know there was a recall on some Mac Units some years ago because of HD problems. Thing is, are the HD problems true hardware problems that would show up on any version of the OS, or were they limited to one OS? Do such problems exist on Mavericks?
Clinton, this is a 2007 15" mid/late model. I remember that because when Mavericks and ML came out I looked at the specs and had to find my model and thought to myself that I just made it into this OS by a hair. Does age make a difference?
I sort of like the build-your-own idea. I could get the bigger HGST you mentioned and put it in an external enclore, then use 3/4ths of it for Time Machine @750MB and then maybe try to keep a clone or semi-clone of the OS on the internal drive in the other 250G.
Seems sort of odd to be thinking about buying the more expensive drive as a backup though.
-
Nov 21, 2013 1:53 PM in response to R.K.Orionby R.K.Orion,Sorry for butting in like I just did. I got this thread mixed up with another one. When I realized the question was directed to HunterMan75 I tried to delete it but it was too late.
I'm sort of new to this site.
-
Nov 21, 2013 6:06 PM in response to R.K.Orionby HuntsMan75,Actually, it's "HuntsMan75"
I don't mind you butting in. It just saved me some typing.
The system I have is a 15" MacBook Pro, June 2007 - February 2008. Model is MA896LL/A running at about 2.4GHz. Designation is MacBookPro3,1.
I don't have any qualms about the build your own approach except that some of the cases I see don't seem to have much in the way of ventilation. I have an old Maxtor external HD that I used to use with FireWire. It was rock solid: metal case, rubber damping around the case, great workmanship, no drivers. It worked great out of the box and it's still working to this day. The only reason it's been more or less shelved is because I've been using it since 2007 or 2008 full time until recently. It wasn't just a backup drive.I used it to host several OSes so I could still have access to some of the stuff in Snow Leopard that used PPC chips. WIth that many years on it I know one of these days I'll turn it on and it will have problems.
A good case, and I mean a good, high quality case probably isn't going to be $15-20. Probably more like $30-$50.
There seem to be a lot of horror stories on the web for a lot of the external drives that are designated as backup drives. I would have thought they'd just be plain old drives that you could buy as OEM.
-
Nov 22, 2013 2:47 AM in response to HuntsMan75by MrJavaDeveloper,The cases that are coming with a lot of external drives nowadays are CRAP! I've seen Western Digital and Seagate backup drives that sit in a plastic styrene like case. I'm familiar with the Maxtor unit your talking about. I'm also familiar with some of the units a company name ACom used to make. The Maxtor was well built. At the time, I thought the ACom was a piece of trash, but compared to these plastic units it was a work of art.
For the love of God, just use common sense. If you guys think a commercial backup drive sitting in a plastic case that will like shatter or crack on minimal impact is an improvement over metal, think again. Since when is plastic a good heat conductor?
As far as the drives inside these things go, check out the following links about some of the WD "green" drives:
https://discussions.apple.com/thread/2141492
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/1367904
In the last link, which is from WD's own forum, they're complaining about the fact that the green drives apparently likes to just lock up randomly for 10-30 seconds. Assuming WD reads their own forums, I'd have to say they're aware of the problem, but do nothing about it.
Sorry fellas. I don't think I'm wrong. Get a good quality drive and put it in a good quality enclosure, and it won't cost a fortune and you'll know what you have on your hands. Letting drive manufactures dump semi dysfunctional drives on you guised as "backup drives" in cheap plastic cases is not a viable option in my opinion.
-
Nov 25, 2013 11:47 AM in response to MrJavaDeveloperby ZV137,Just because Western Digital has started putting there backup drives in crappy plastic cases and just because some of the drives they have are incredibly slow doesn't mean all external HDs are bad. Take LaCie for example. How often do you hear people complain about them the way they do about WD?
Of course stuff like LaCie costs money, but quality things usually do. Buyers just need to do their homwork!
-
Nov 28, 2013 2:35 AM in response to ZV137by MrJavaDeveloper,Actually, I have seen some people complain about LaCie drives. Not alot, but some. Apparently some of their "port powered" units consumed to much power for the ports.
As an FYI for anyone following the Western Digital on Mavericks problems, here's some info:
- Western Digital has admitted that their software drivers and packages could unwittingly reformat or repartition some WD drives when connected to a system running Mavericks.
- The following links are for where you can download the WD Drive Manager and Smartware software:
WD Drive Manager for Mac Version 3.1.0
WD SmartWare Version 1.3.6 for Mac 10.5-10.9
Another FYI regarding some of the WD "Green Drives" is that SCSC (the guys that make Scannerz) have reported that some of these drives like to park their heads while in use. The symptoms are similar to a bad drive, but using their software the problem shows up with timing irregularities almost exactly 30 seconds in delay. The delays happen randomly, but there always just a few tenths of a second about 30 seconds. The symptoms are apparently I/O lock ups. I guess they're harmless, but annoying. These have been reported before, but not necessarily understood.
This, once again, AFAIC makes the case for building your own units. A lot of the Seagate and WD external drives are BACKUP drives, and they aren't intended to be boot drives. If you intend to use a drive intended for backup as a boot drive, don't be surprised if the drive is some low power, low performance oddity like the WD I just described. Locking up periodically for 30 seconds might be OK for a backup drive, but that isn't OK for a boot drive.
-
Nov 30, 2013 12:22 PM in response to MrJavaDeveloperby R.K.Orion,Can you get some more detail about the WD problems, like the symptoms and models?
Regarding Mavericks last night I decided to reverse migrate back to Mountain Lion. Mavericks seems to have a lot of little kinks in it. Not show stoppers, and if I was limited to one system /one disk I wouldn't bother, but I'll wait until they get some of these kinks worked out before I continue.
I'm not really entirely certain I'd blame WD for that software problem just yet.
-
Dec 1, 2013 12:11 PM in response to R.K.Orionby MrJavaDeveloper,Exact models I don't know. I know they're the "Green" drives. The symptoms are 30 second lockups. If you use the WD as a boot drive when running it, it simply freezes for 30 seconds then goes on it's merry way. It almost acts just lke a drive that's failing. When using Scannerz to perform a test apparently at invervals anywhere from 5-20 min (it's random) it just comes up with a irregularity measurement of almost exactly 30 seconds.
...the drive apparently works fine, it just does so in a really, really stupid way.
I've posted stuff on some of these problems before and there are even threads about it on WD's forums.Since the reporting of the problems is more or less common, and since WD seems to see no reason to address the issue, I have to assume this is the way they wan't this thing to work.
As far as I'm concerned, this is just further proof of why you should build your own external units. You know what's in them and if you ended up getting a sucko drive like one of those WDs, you can just returne it and get something good.
-
Dec 1, 2013 12:19 PM in response to MrJavaDeveloperby PlotinusVeritas,As far as I'm concerned, this is just further proof of why you should build your own external units.
This, once again, AFAIC makes the case for building your own units. A lot of the Seagate and WD external drives are BACKUP drives, and they aren't intended to be boot drives.
No, there is no specific 'backup HD" and a boot drive is the same.
WD Green drives are the bottom of the barrel, WD black server grade HD are perfectly fine, despite not subjectively liking WD drives.
The only thing the HD gurus will agree on in general is Hitahci drives are the best. Having piles of them for countless years I agree.
Youve only got 4 options on earth, WD, seagate, Toshiba, Hitachi.
build your own external units.
Yes, but the failure point in most externals is the SATA bridge card, Ive got a pile of dead ones.
As mentioned here:
Your dead external hard drive is likely fine! Great hope for your 'faulty' external HD
-
Dec 1, 2013 12:37 PM in response to PlotinusVeritasby MrJavaDeveloper,No, there is no specific 'backup HD" and a boot drive is the same.
Youve only got 4 options on earth, WD, seagate, Toshiba, Hitachi.
By "specific backup HD" i mean one that has been retrofitted by the manufacture to be, explicitly a back up drive. The WD MyBook series is a perfect example. Unless you load their software drivers and software, the drive's power on/off switch won't work (No.....I'm not making that up) The drive's performance is abysmally slolw, but that's considered "acceptable" for a backup drive. The drive can time out and lock up for 30 seconds...once again, hardly "normal" behavior.
You can call that a "boot drive" if you want to, but I wouldn't.
-
Dec 1, 2013 1:39 PM in response to MrJavaDeveloperby PlotinusVeritas,MrJavaDeveloper wrote
By "specific backup HD" i mean one that has been retrofitted by the manufacture to be, explicitly a back up drive. The WD MyBook series is a perfect example.
Mechanically there is no such entity as a "backup drive"
There are grades of drives for use parameters, such as WD Black for servers, etc.
As for a "slow" HD, this is limited by MB in buffer, spindle speeds (5400 7200 etc), the BUS its connected to.
All the nonsense HD mfg. brand their bricks (HD) as is meaningless fluff.
such as "expansion drive, Mac HD, Win HD, backup drive, goflex, etc etc"
Just marketing cotton candy fluff and stuffing.
Hard drive software isnt recommend for a long string of reasons.
-
Dec 1, 2013 10:46 PM in response to PlotinusVeritasby San Lewy,PlotinusVeritas wrote:
Youve only got 4 options on earth, WD, seagate, Toshiba, Hitachi.
You are aware that Hitachi (known as Hitachi Global Storage Technologies and HGST Inc) is a wholly-owned subsidiary of Western Digital Company?