sjmawer

Q: ios7 keeps refreshing apps after switching

I dont know if this is a new "feature", but it's really annoying.

 

If i have, say, an open webpage in Safari, and say i've scrolled down the page and zoomed in to a section i'm interested in, then switch to Mail to get some info, and then switch back to the webpage, the webpage will refresh and take me back to the top.

It's REALLY annoying.

 

Why can't it just stay where it was, like in ios6??

 

Is anyone else having this issue? Can anyone think of a fix?

iPhone 4S, iOS 7.0.2

Posted on Sep 27, 2013 12:16 PM

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Q: ios7 keeps refreshing apps after switching

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  • by rick7,

    rick7 rick7 Dec 3, 2013 6:43 PM in response to puskarich
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    Dec 3, 2013 6:43 PM in response to puskarich

    I went back a second time to the Genius Bar at my local Apple store for a follow-up about our problem. The previous week I'd talked with someone from the Genius Bar about it and he'd suggested that it might be caused by my not having enough free space on my iPad.  I'd gone home and freed up more space and that had no effect, so I decided to go in for a follow-up. This time they assigned me the lead technician.  He spent quite some time with me and I'm going to write up my memory of what he said.

     

    He said it's "working as designed" (how many times have we all heard that?) which was pretty distressing to hear.  He says the problem did not crop up with iOS 7 and he's seen it before, though he admit that it's aggravated by the increased memory demands of iOS 7.  However, he did suggest a different way of looking at the issue which I hadn't considered before, and I'll describe that. But after checking out his suggestions (see below) I don't think his analysis was correct.

     

    He said that it's related to the Background App Refresh (BAR) setting in Settings.  I told him that when I first started noticing the problem two months ago I investigated this possibility but then ruled it out.  I reasoned that I don't want an app to refresh itself while it's in the background.  If it did refresh itself, then when I'd switch back to it and it was brought back to the foreground, that refresh might actually CAUSE the problem we're seeing.  So since then I've had BAR turned off completely.

     

    In response, however, he described our problem and its relationship to Background App Refresh in a way that surprised me.  He said that you DO want to turn on Background App Refresh for the apps that you'll be switching back to, because in multi-tasking (or, rather, the pseudo-multitasking that we have on our Apple mobile devices) one of the things that BAR does is to "protect" the original state of the app.  This is the first time I'd heard the idea of Background App Refresh protecting and saving the original state of the app.  So if you have BAR turned on for that app, then when you switch back to the app it will get restored to how it was at the time when you switched away from it -- which is what we want and what we remember fondly from iOS 6.

     

    However, his explanation didn't seem right.  I said that if that was the case, then app "refresh" was certainly a bad term for this.  He agreed that it was a bad term.  But he responded that a good way to think about it was that turning on BAR for an app "refreshes" THE APP'S ORIGINAL STATE.  It puts up a shield around the app's memory space when it's loaded, so it says to the OS: "don't mess with me, I'm holding on to what I had before, the original state.  You can't borrow any memory from me even if you need it." 

     

    He said that the problem we're noticing will NOT exist for apps that have had BAR turned on in Settings.  This surprised me but he insisted that for any app that restarts/refreshes itself when you switch back to it, if it's not in the app list in BAR then the developers need to put in special code to deal with BAR.  Once the app would be upgraded in that way, if you would turn on BAR for that app it would then not exhibit the behavior we've been seeing. 

     

    I was surprised to hear all this and mentioned that almost all the apps I use have already been upgraded for iOS 7.  He said that was true but that many of those allegedly upgraded apps have still not incorporated code for BAR.  Once they did, and would issue a new release, then the app wouldn't display the behavior we're seeing.

     

    I wanted to believe him but was skeptical, especially given that three of the apps that get refreshed unnecessarily when switching back to them -- Safari, Photos and Settings -- are all stock Apple apps. Why didn't they have BAR code built in to them?  He wasn't sure.

     

    I thanked him and went home.  I turned on my iPad and went into Settings and turned on the option for Background App Refresh, as I'd previously had it off.  Then to test his theory I turned it on specifically for a few of the apps that I use at least occasionally and that do have an entry in BAR: NY Times, Organic Gardening, New Yorker and the stock Podcasts app.

     

    For the next hour or so I tested each of these.  I opened up a specific item in the app such as an article or a podcast, then switched away from it.  I then worked elsewhere for ten minutes or so, then switched back to the app.  For the NY Times, the reset closed the article completely and returned to the main page -- just as I'd feared.  For Organic Gardening, switching back to the app did the same thing: closed the article and returned to the main page.  For the New Yorker, switching back caused the app to go blank momentarily, then it returned to the article but to the beginning of the article and I lost my place.  For the Podcasts app, switching back caused a reset which closed the podcast I was looking at and it went back to the main page.

     

    So the problem is exactly the same even for apps that have Background App Refresh turned on.  I therefore have to conclude that the analysis given to me by the technician was incorrect.  I believe that his suggestion that the problem will be solved when individual app developers upgrade their app to deal with Background App Refresh was not accurate.

  • by chronicon helveticum,

    chronicon helveticum chronicon helveticum Dec 4, 2013 12:06 AM in response to rick7
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    Dec 4, 2013 12:06 AM in response to rick7

    Thanks for the detailed report rick7. The tech's theory was intriguing, if ultimately flawed. I think we've exhausted the potential of the Genius Bar - my visit was no help either - so I suppose we just have to rely on the Apple dev team to ort it out.

     

    It is so frustrating to hear claims that it 'works as designed' - the standard cop-out and it would be so refreshing to find just one Apple employee who is as annoyed with this as we are.

     

    I'm still unsure how prevalent this is with new devices (iPhone 5, iPad Air). It has been reported on these devices but is it as bad?

     

    I'd consider moving to another platform but the combination of iPad and App Store is still pretty unbeatable IMO.

  • by paulfromstone,

    paulfromstone paulfromstone Dec 4, 2013 1:50 AM in response to rick7
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 4, 2013 1:50 AM in response to rick7

    Thanks for trying the Genius Bar route again rick7. I suppose it makes some sense if apps with Background App Refresh enabled have precedence over other suspended apps when the OS decides what apps to terminate, such as in a low memory condition (although I can't find any Apple developer documentation to back up this claim).

     

    However, as helveticum says, we already know that the setting doesn't fix the issue. In fact, I first noticed the issue when using an app that had Background App Refresh enabled (Facebook).

  • by Solarc,

    Solarc Solarc Dec 4, 2013 4:00 AM in response to Solarc
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    Dec 4, 2013 4:00 AM in response to Solarc

    I have a iPhone 5s too and I can't seem to duplicate the problem there. On my iPad mini I can every time. I will not say that it does not exist because I don't multi-task on my phone that much, mainly the iPad.

  • by rick7,

    rick7 rick7 Dec 4, 2013 7:06 AM in response to Solarc
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    Dec 4, 2013 7:06 AM in response to Solarc

    Solarc, that's interesting that you don't have the problem (at all?) on your iPhone 5S.  I wonder if anyone can point us to any reviews of iOS 7 where our problem is discussed.  I've been puzzled at not being able to find any.  A technical writer/reviewer with access to more resources might have a better handle on exactly which devices have the problem and how bad.

  • by rick7,

    rick7 rick7 Dec 4, 2013 7:20 AM in response to chronicon helveticum
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    Dec 4, 2013 7:20 AM in response to chronicon helveticum

    Helveticum, the more I think about it the more I wonder that when he told me it's "working as designed" maybe he was actually and tragically telling me the truth.  Maybe our problem is a downstream consequence of some consciously-designed feature(s) of iOS 7, and Apple just didn't think users would object to the collateral damage it caused to our devices' multi-tasking capability.  Trying to save battery life maybe?

     

    The way the technician explained it to me it sounded as if with iOS 7 Apple decided to put the onus on the individual app developer to deal with multitasking. iOS can do some kind of pseudo-multiasking but in iOS 7 the app has to add code to deal with it, and it's done via Background App Refresh.  But after the research I've done I now think my technician's analysis was wrong.  I think he was conflating two different things, maybe two different aspects of multitasking: what the OS has to do in order to guarantee smooth app-switching, and what the OS has to do to allow an app to run continuously in the background.

  • by chronicon helveticum,

    chronicon helveticum chronicon helveticum Dec 4, 2013 7:43 AM in response to rick7
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    Dec 4, 2013 7:43 AM in response to rick7

    If it is indeed 'worked as designed' it would be deeply disappointing. However, what makes me feel it is still a bug is the reaction that some of the people on our sister thread had heard from Apple who appeared to have recognised the problem.

     

    However, this problem is so slippery and hard to grasp and describe that there is plenty of room for miscommunication along the way. I do though like your thinking along the lines that perhaps each app has to be changed as well as iOS 7 before we have a solution.

     

    We can however simplify the problem to the use of just two Apple apps, I.e. Safari and iBooks (as per a post I made a few days ago). One would imagine that these two would be enabled to handle the pseudo-background methodology. So this still leaves a problem with iOS 7.

     

    It would be perverse for Apple to cripple the multi-tasking ability of iOS (such as it is) though if battery is seen as a significant metric then *perhaps* I can understand it (Btw, I cannot use the advanced editor using Safari on my iPad on an Apple site - sigh). In which case do we end up with a turbo mode that uses more battery power but keeps a full status of the background apps? But I don't think Apple goes for this low level tweeking in iOS.

     

    It makes me wonder whether spare user-memory could be used for saving the apps statuses. It might be marginally slower but highly flexible - though I guess this would be a major break from the way things are done in iOS.

  • by Solarc,

    Solarc Solarc Dec 4, 2013 7:49 AM in response to rick7
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 4, 2013 7:49 AM in response to rick7

    Rick7 - I just spent 40 mins surfing and switching on my iphone 5s and I could NOT make any app refresh. eBay had been open for about a week and I went to it and it did something that may have been a refresh but definitely not like my mini or regular ipad does. I then turn OFF background refresh with NO change from any app. They all kept there place with no screen flash or refresh.

     

    I have also noticed on my 5s there is no or very little delay when switching to other apps before I can control them. On my mini when changing between apps it takes a few seconds before I can scroll or select any feature of the app. Anyone else notice this?

     

    I think this observation my speak to the comments that the ios was designed for new device and maybe it is referencing different sectors of the storage mechanism and the older devices don't reference the same way. Also, I think this discredits the idea the app owner has to do more as all my apps on mini and 5s are same version and act totally different.

     

    Any feedback?

  • by ERSinclair,

    ERSinclair ERSinclair Dec 4, 2013 7:55 AM in response to sjmawer
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 4, 2013 7:55 AM in response to sjmawer

    I suspect Apple is somehow making money off the fact that iOS devices are hitting web pages. Every time your device refreshes a page, it increases the percentage of iOS hit stats. This is the only logical explanation. They don't consider this a bug or problem. The only way Apple is going to listen to us is buy hitting them in their wallet. And since were already deep into apple devices, we're screwed. People are so in love with Apple that they will tolerate this problem as just the way things are.

  • by rick7,

    rick7 rick7 Dec 4, 2013 10:29 AM in response to paulfromstone
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    Dec 4, 2013 10:29 AM in response to paulfromstone

    Paulfromstone, when you say "when the OS decides what apps to terminate", by "terminate" do you mean "force to refresh"?  I'm not sure that any apps are terminated here, but maybe you're using the word in a different sense.  Thanks.

  • by rick7,

    rick7 rick7 Dec 4, 2013 10:45 AM in response to chronicon helveticum
    Level 1 (13 points)
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    Dec 4, 2013 10:45 AM in response to chronicon helveticum

    Helveticum -- yes, right on.  I actually got the "battery life" idea from Bardzo on our sister thread -- which I think has now been joined to ours.  Maybe Apple saw that iOS 7's ability to more easily allow apps to run in the background (not so aptly called Background App Refresh) was going to require more battery power.  They looked at iOS 6 and asked, "OK, what aspect of iOS 6 multi-tasking can we jettison that won't hurt the users too much?  How about the ability to hold an apps's state while the user is working elsewhere?"  And here we are.

     

    Or maybe it's not battery juice that's the issue here, but rather system memory.  We still haven't seen rigorous statistics comparing the iPad Air and iPhone 5S vs. the older models like my iPad 2 and iPhone 4.

     

    I'm all for the "turbo mode" you suggest, with a setting to turn it on or off.  But battery drainage is less of a problem for me than it is for other people because half the time I work with my iPad plugged in to the charger.

  • by rick7,

    rick7 rick7 Dec 4, 2013 10:56 AM in response to Solarc
    Level 1 (13 points)
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    Dec 4, 2013 10:56 AM in response to Solarc

    Solarc, thanks for this (I wrote my previous comment before seeing yours).  Does this suggest that it may not be an issue of battery power but rather system memory?  I don't know if Apple releases these figures formally but we've heard reports that the iPhone 5 and iPad Air have (twice?) as much system memory as the respective earlier models. 

     

    Though I think I've seen reports here of people with the iPad Air having our problem?  Or maybe not.  We need a tech writer to keep track of all this.

     

    Can you elaborate more on when you say that newer models may be "referencing different sectors of the storage mechanism"?

     

    Very important to note that the same apps act differently on your two different devices -- thank you for this.

  • by rick7,

    rick7 rick7 Dec 4, 2013 10:58 AM in response to Solarc
    Level 1 (13 points)
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    Dec 4, 2013 10:58 AM in response to Solarc

    I received an email from the technician at the Genius Bar with this link for developers and speaks in depth about how multitasking works:

    https://developer.apple.com/library/ios/documentation/iphone/conceptual/iphoneos programmingguide/ManagingYourApplicationsFlow/ManagingYourApplicationsFlow.html

     

    He also sends this article from the public Apple Knowledge Base which talks about multitasking in layman's terms: http://support.apple.com/kb/ht4211

  • by paulfromstone,

    paulfromstone paulfromstone Dec 4, 2013 11:55 AM in response to rick7
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 4, 2013 11:55 AM in response to rick7

    By "terminate" I mean that my suspicion is that the OS is terminating inactive apps for some reason, so when you try to switch back to them, they have to restart (and restore their previous state as best they can - how near this is to how you left it varies from app to app) - the "refresh". I did propose that this was all due to iOS 7 using more RAM than iOS 6, but my rudimentary testing suggested that they're pretty similar, which does give me hope that there is an issue that can be fixed.

  • by TreehouseAndSky,

    TreehouseAndSky TreehouseAndSky Dec 4, 2013 1:11 PM in response to rick7
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 4, 2013 1:11 PM in response to rick7

    Hi there, I've been following the other thread about the subject on the iPad for and did some reading on here too.

     

    Taking into account what the Genius said to you, Rick7, and your suggestion about the problem being memory related, I did some tests on my iPhone 4s. I'd definately say that the problem is memory related. At first I tried simply switching on the Refresh on the Background setting, to no avail. Now take into account that I consider the problem rather severe in my case. Almost any action, switching apps or going back a page in safari takes a refresh.

     

    After thinking the problem is memory related, I tried switching off my device, which as you knows frees up a lot of RAM space. And how about that. No refreshing whatsoever, at least not by Apple apps (maybe your genius was right about the setting in other apps, as an extra to the problem.)

     

    As the problem doesn't occur on newer devices, I'm rather worried we'll never get a solution.

    Because honestly, Apple has not been the top dog in keeping older devices compatible.

     

    I'm right here hoping with you guys, but I know for sure that in the time coming I'll be switching my iPhone off a lot more!

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