1 93 94 95 96 97 Previous Next 2,032 Replies Latest reply: Jun 26, 2014 8:34 AM by luisx Go to original post Branched to a new discussion.
  • 1,410. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    mvanier Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I have an iPhone 4S and used to have an iPhone 3GS, both LED-backlit.  The 3GS was _much_ easier on my eyes; no discomfort whatsoever.  The 4S took me quite a while to get comfortable with, but now it's OK (but not as nice as the 3GS was).  The point is, "LED backlit" doesn't tell the whole story.  Small changes in the amount of yellow phosphor used to make the blue LED look white can have a huge impact (the more yellow, the easier on the eyes).  That may be what's happening here.  The new GB-LEDs should be better still, but I don't think any smartphones use them yet.  As far as I can tell, the 4S has no PWM and no flicker of any kind; the image is rock-solid.

  • 1,411. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    d1a Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I'm on a Dell desktop with Dell CCFL monitor, can work on it all day no problems. Just plugged a 2006 mac mini into the same monitor and within minutes felt dizziness, headache, eyepain, and nausea. Is it a graphics card issue with macs?

    I get the same symptoms on Air, Pro and to a lesser degree on iMac, somehow the iMac doesn't cause the same intensity as the laptops.

  • 1,412. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    mvanier Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    More likely it's the graphics driver than the graphics card, which just does what the driver tells it to.  I've had the same kind of experiences.  The reason the iMac doesn't cause as intense an effect is probably due to a better monitor which can render more colors without temporal dithering, which can cause a random 60 hz flicker which is what gives you eyestrain.  The bad news is that there is no way that I know of to turn off temporal dithering on a Mac.  Other computers (Windows and Linux) have this problem too, but perhaps not to the same degree.  An expert Mac hacker might be able to write a kernel extension to fix it, but it's much easier to control stuff like this on Linux, especially if you have an Intel graphics card, since Intel open sources their drivers.  I am a bit surprised that you're having this problem on a 2006 mini, since my impression was that it's mainly more recent computers that do this.  My early 2008 Macbook with a CCFL-backlit screen is fine, but a brand new Macbook causes me intense eyestrain.  What version of the OS are you running?  I'm guessing it's pretty recent.

  • 1,413. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    kvoth Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I actually have a kernel extension for turning off dithering. I verified that it was entering the correct keys (AAPL00,Dither and AAPL01,Dither) for turning off dithering (details here http://psychtoolbox.org/bitsplusplusplatformvariations), but never found a way to physically test that dithering was off. I didn't notice any difference in how my mac made me feel.

     

    As for the video card discussion, I picked up a MBPRetina with an nVidia card, hoping that would do better than the integrated cards the rest of the macs have. I didn't notice a difference.

  • 1,414. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    d1a Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Thanks mvanier, it's running Leopard. I also have the same problems with an old powerbook G4 which I believe is CCFL backlit?

    Think it's time to PC really.

  • 1,415. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    mvanier Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Well, shows what I know.  Someone also recently reported that a new (2012) Mac Mini paired with a CCFL-backlit monitor gave him no problems whatsoever.

     

    I would caution against assuming that Windows will fix the problem, though.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Windows computers cause the same kind of eyestrain as Macs (maybe a bit less, maybe graphics card/driver dependent).

  • 1,416. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    kvoth Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I would caution against assuming that Windows will fix the problem, though.  I wouldn't be at all surprised if Windows computers cause the same kind of eyestrain as Macs (maybe a bit less, maybe graphics card/driver dependent).

    In this thread, people were saying that after upgrading to Win7, things got bad. I downloaded this entire thread so I can grep it... here are some excerps pertaining to win7 (note: these are all from different posts and taken out of context).

     

    I find that Windows 7 causes eye problems for me.  I have turned off ClearType and changed the Segoe fonts out and it still seems like the monitor is fickering.  It feels like Windows 7 isn't really using the higher refresh rates even when it is set to 75 or 80 Hz

     

    A person I know had a CRT at work and was fine with it, but then he was forced to upgrade from Windows XP to Windows 7. Since then it has become hard for him to use it.

     

    Windows 7 will also create and modulate a similar "snow" on computer screens, even in a still picture or desktop image. This is something new, I have always had the latest and greatest computers, and this weird effect only showed up with Windows 7. It is creepy.

    I've heard people being fine with Windows XP but not with Windows 7 with the same hardware. Now I read about Windows 7 being good, but the problem satrting with Windows 8. This makes me think that any OS could have this problem with the wrong graphic card drivers. Installing the oldest drivers might remove the problem. I would also try 256 color mode. No dithering should be happening there.

     

    I also would like to point out that there was a major difference when I tried Windows 7 on my MBP Retina before reselling it.

     

    Also, Windows 7 bothered me where as WinXP did not bother me on the same PC connected the very same way.

     

    I use a older LCD ccfl Dell monitor and use WinXp with no problems. After I installed windows 7 I immediately got the dreaded eye pain/headache.

     

    There's more than this about win7.

     

    Can anyone get WinXP or Vista onto a troublesome machine/display?

  • 1,417. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    StefanD13 Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Hi mvanier,

    So you managed to turn off dithering on Linux with Inter drivers and getting no eye strain? Please let me know how, I'd be glad to switch immediately to this configuration..

    As far as I can tell from the source code, the Intel (Haswell) driver is already using spatial dithering.

    I tried once a computer with Intel GPU and Linux and it definetely gave me eye strain...

    Nevertheless I still share the opinion that the dithering is the issue and maybe the open source drivers don't work properly or I missunderstand the code, but it could be as well there is another driver setting which causes the eye strain.

    Stefan

  • 1,418. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    mvanier Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Sorry, I didn't mean to give the wrong impression.  I plan to try to turn dithering off in Linux, but I haven't gotten around to it yet due to time constraints.  I'll let the list know what I find.  I know at least some other people have gotten relief by turning off dithering.

  • 1,419. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    spprt Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I had an old computer with Windows XP and a 3dfx (which was later bought by Nvidia) graphics card. The eye strain noticably increased whenever I changed the default desktop gamma values. Note that Wndows XP doesn't have a 3D desktop. Much better with default gamma.

    Later I replaced the card with an ATI card. Same problem here. And many 3D games, if not all, caused the same problem (with both cards). My monitor could be turned by 90 degrees, but I couldn't use that mode because once the graphic driver (manually) switched to pivot mode, said eye strain was back immediately.

     

    I tried several monitors, TN and PVA panels, both VGA and DVI (without the use of adapters), no solution.

     

    Then I bought a laptop with Windows Vista and an ATI card. Vista introduced a 3D desktop called Aero. It caused heavy eye strain but I realized that you can stop this by turning off Aero. Then everything either looks like Windows 2000 or a 2D Vista skin without "glass" effects but the special eye strain is gone. It is a big difference for me.

     

    When Windows 7 came out, I tested this again. Same heavy eye strain, fixable by turning off Aero.

     

    So I think the reason some people say XP is easier for your eyes is because XP doesn't use a 3D mode. And maybe because they didn't change brightness/gamma/anything like that.

     

    I could also reproduce this problem on 2 different TN panel TVs + VGA cable (analog signal). The same.

     

    So, in my experience, using XP/no Aero prevents especially heavy eye strain, but it does not eliminate the "basic" eye strain I get from any LC displays.

  • 1,420. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    ElleAle Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    Did you mean you GOT the eyestrain after an hour use, or did NOT get any? Thanks

  • 1,421. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    ElleAle Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    "

    So here's another theory...

    So to try to make sense of my own experiences and those of some of the folk in this thread I'd put forward a supplementary theory (as GKphone has I think also done above). That for some of the people in this thread who have undisputed intolerances to certain monitors or laptops - that the root cause may in part lie with quirks of  their electromagnetic emmissions outside the visible light spectrum. i.e. (a) some unusual combination of intensity, physical reach and/or temporal variation of the low frequency electric and possibly magnetic fields produced by these screens and/or the partnered computer hardware itself; (b) variations in intensity, direction or frequency characteristics of emmisions of high frequency electric fields i.e. wifi.

     

    Phew. I'd just close by saying that it you accept as a reasonable starting proposition that most of the posters in this thread appear to represent that very small minority of Apple/LCD screen users who have a relatively rare and heightened sensitivity and intolerance to screen quirks within the visible light spectrum, then isn't it conceivable that for a subset of such folk their sensitivity might extend into other parts of the electromagnetic spectrum also? There's a variety of research showing subtle and not-so-subtle biological non-thermal effects of non-ionising radiation outside the visible light range. Food for thought."

     

    I find this post very interesting. I tried MBPretina and had to return it.  My impression was that Wifi was contributing to the eye and overall strain. When i turned it off i could use it for longer time without getting as much eyestrain.

     

    does anyone else have experience with this?

  • 1,422. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    ElleAle Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    in response to the person, who said retina display iPad solved his problem, my eyestrain problems started and continue with iPad 4 retina

  • 1,423. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    Exandas Level 1 Level 1 (0 points)

    I do get some eye strain after an hour of use. It is not as intense as with iphone 4s, lumia 920, or SG3 but if i dont stop i suspect the eye strain and headaches will become worse.

    For my purposes which are to check business emails while on the move and make phone calls, it seems ok.

     

    As i wrote before, i dont own it right now, but i used it for a week. I am thinking of buying it. 

  • 1,424. Re: Eye strain from LED backlighting in MacBook Pro
    brsm1990 Level 1 Level 1 (35 points)

    I feel the opposite, the ultra bright ultra crips ultra sharp retina display is easier to look at for long periods than an older low res screen.

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