1 2 3 Previous Next 33 Replies Latest reply: Apr 18, 2007 8:43 AM by Inquisitive
Pierre Igot Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
I find this hard to believe, yet it appears to be true…

My new MacBook (black) works just fine with my old Graphite AirPort Base Station when it comes to connecting to the Internet.

But the MacBook is simply unable to "see" the AppleTalk printers that I have connected to the Graphite ABS via Ethernet. Even with AppleTalk enabled on the AirPort connection on the MacBook, the MacBook simply cannot see the printers. My other (PowerPC) Macs can see and use the printers just fine, of course.

I phoned AppleCare about this and they tell me that my Graphite BS is no longer supported, so they can't help me.

I can't believe this. The BS is working just fine… It's just a decision made by Apple not to support AppleTalk printing via the Graphite BS on Intel Macs that is now forcing me to buy a new AirPort BS.

Grrr.

MacBook (black), Mac OS X (10.4.6)
  • 1. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Gregory Meach Level 3 Level 3 (930 points)
    Hi Pierre,

    Welcome to the state of "progress"

    Seriously though, what is Appletalk like more than 15 years old. It's time to upgrade your network. Why not just use IP printing, all OS X software works with that.

    Hopefully you can get a work around.

    PS you do know that OS 9 is also not support on your new MacBook, right?

    Cheers
  • 2. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Pierre Igot Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    "Progress" to me equates improvement. I don't see any improvement in having to move to another printing protocol. On the contrary, moving to TCP/IP printing would just force me to buy new printers! (One of my printers doesn't support it at all, and the other one supports it, but OS X doesn't provide make the required driver available when I try to add the printer via TCP/IP.)

    AppleTalk is still supported in Mac OS X 10.4.x on Intel Macs, so there's no reason why it shouldn't work here.

    My printers might not be the latest and the greatest, but they work just fine and I see no need to replace them, on the contrary.

    Unix is a decades-old technology. Does this make Mac OS X obsolete?
  • 3. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Gregory Meach Level 3 Level 3 (930 points)
    Pierre,

    I meant no disrespect.

    I believet this is one of the reason Apple products are far superior to anything offered in the PC world especially when compared to Microsoft software. Apple draws the line, steps over it and moves forward, progress. While I can appreciate your situation I am glad Apple makes, lets call them quantum shifts. It makes for much better and more reliable products. Getting caught in the tail wind does indeed suck.

    I did not have any real need for a new laptop (except I love the wide screen) but I have been watching the slow shift from PowerPC to Intel and I do not want to get left on the side line. So... my wife and I have new MacBook's. I'll sell my year plus old PowerBook. I will also upgrade both of my PowerPC Mac Mini's. Why, because I want to "keep" up. If along the way my Airport Extreme BS doesn't work and I have to purchase something newer, then I will.

    The opposite of this can be seen in the sludge of backwards compatibility that Microsoft calls an operating system.

    I hope you can find a work around for your problem. Perhaps you can pick up a used Airport Extreme on eBay or something (if they work with Appletalk).

    Regards,

  • 4. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Pierre Igot Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    The AirPort Extreme BS had better work with AppleTalk and the MacBook, because I just ordered one .

    Don't get me wrong. I am all for progress and for leaving the past behind. But then I would expect Apple to drop support for AppleTalk altogether. What irks me here is that AppleTalk is supported, but not the MacBook-AppleTalk-Graphite AirPort Base Station combination.

    As far as I know, Apple has no plans to drop support for 802.11b any time soon, so obviously they are going to continue to support the Graphite AirPort Base Station as a 802.11b device. If they are continuing to support AppleTalk as well, then why on earth can't I use AppleTalk over the Graphite AirPort Base Station with the MacBook, when it works just well with the PowerPC machines I have?

    It simply does not make any sense to me. I wouldn't be surprised if it were carelessness more than a conscious decision here. I find it hard to believe that this particular failure reflects a conscious decision by Apple to "draw the line" and drop support for AppleTalk printing over 802.11b with Intel Macs. (I don't know if things would work with a non-Apple 802.11b device. I don't have one handy.)

    The end result is that this MacBook purchase is going to cost me $250 more than it should have. And I find this rather disappointing.
  • 5. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    infinite vortex Level 7 Level 7 (21,400 points)
    nsnowingJust to let you know that I've also had the same issue when it comes to AppleTalk devices over wireless. While I have never found the real cause of it I believe it has something to do with a firewall somewhere blocking the AT port traffic.

    This goes for both Apple base stations as well as 3rd party base stations.
  • 6. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Pierre Igot Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    Thanks for the suggestion, Ned. However, the MacBook's built-in firewall (in OS X) is not on and there's nothing blocking AppleTalk either in my AirPort Base Station or on my Ethernet hub. (Obviously, since printing via AppleTalk from the MacBook works perfectly well over Ethernet.)

    Obviously the MacBook's wireless architecture blocks something that the PowerPC Macs' wireless architecture does not, but I don't know what it is, and it certainly is not something that's visible in the MacBook's user interface.

    If you have any other suggestions to test AppleTalk connections over wireless with the MacBook, even involving the CLI, I am all ears .
  • 7. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Pierre Igot Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    Out of curiosity, I tried to activate Printer Sharing on the G5, and low and behold, the shared printers became visible on the MacBook (only after a machine restart, though). For some reason, the printers are all shared twice (maybe it has to do with the fact the G5 is connected to the network both via Ethernet and via AirPort).

    But now printing works from the MacBook via the shared printers. It's not really an ideal solution, but it works… (I don't think I am going to cancel my order for the AirPort Extreme at this stage, but this would probably be an acceptable workaround for some people.)
  • 8. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Chris Habig Level 4 Level 4 (2,220 points)
    This was a known problem with the first Intel Macs. But Apple supposedly fixed this problem with 10.4.6. What version of OS X are you running?

    Also, since wireless Appletalk printing was originally broken with the MacBook Pro and was fixed with 10.4.6, perhaps 10.4.7 will fix it for the MacBook too.

    Chris
  • 9. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Pierre Igot Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    I am using 10.4.6, which is what came on the MacBook.

    It's not that AppleTalk printing is completely broken. It's just that it's broken when printing over AirPort via an old Graphite AirPort Base Station. Of course, if it doesn't work with the new AirPort Extreme Base Station that I ordered either, then I will be *really* ****** off!
  • 10. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    infinite vortex Level 7 Level 7 (21,400 points)
    nsnowingNot to really ruin your day although I've never found AppleTalk to work over wireless with whatever Mac I was using nor with whatever wireless access point (Airport Extreme, Airport Express and 3com OfficeConnect Wiless 11g) I was using. And that currently goes for my Intel Mac mini, PowerBook G4 (2 of them) and iBook G3, all of which are running Mac OS X 10.4.6 (except for a PowerBook which is running Mac OS X Server 10.4.6). As soon as I use cable it all goes perfectly with all of these Macs.

    By the way, my AppleTalk device is an Apple LaserWriter 12/640PS.
  • 11. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Pierre Igot Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    I find it surprising that you haven't been able to maake AppleTalk printing work. It is most definitely supported in OS X for AirPort connections. Otherwise, the AirPort settings wouldn't include the option to turn AppleTalk on.

    Maybe it has to do with your actual printer. Some older laser printers didn't support any kind of networking, only a straight serial connection to the computer. I can't remember what the LaserWriter 12/640PS could or could not do. Now that's really ancient technology . Although if it works with a wired connection, obviously it should work via the wireless access point too… Strange.

    Now I have to decide whether I should cancel this order for the AP Extreme altogether or wait until it gets here and then get on Apple's case because it's not working with the MacBook either.
  • 12. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    infinite vortex Level 7 Level 7 (21,400 points)
    nsnowingI find it surprising that you haven't been able to maake AppleTalk printing work

    That makes two of us! What annoys me the most about it is that I do nothing out of the ordinary when it comes to both the infrarstucture nor setup of our network.

    Maybe it has to do with your actual printer.

    Doubtful. If it works fine under an Ethernet connection it should work exactly the same under a wireless connection. When it comes to the printer nothing is different. It does have in-built Ethernet so there's no way there's an issue with a bridging device.

    Now that's really ancient technology .

    Snicker all you like . This thing's been a real workhorse for us and I'll be sad to let it go.
  • 13. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    Pierre Igot Level 1 Level 1 (15 points)
    That makes two of us! What annoys me the most about
    it is that I do nothing out of the ordinary when it
    comes to both the infrarstucture nor setup of our
    network.


    What I find particularly surprising in your case is that you've never been able to get it to work. Maybe it's something to do with the "flavour" of Ethernet used by the LaserWriter? Maybe it has a problem with Ethernet-to-AirPort bridging that later Ethernet connections didn't have? How old is the LaserWriter exactly? Which kind of Ethernet connection is it? (There weren't that many laser printers with built-in Ethernet connections back then…)

    Maybe it has to do with your actual printer.


    Doubtful. If it works fine under an Ethernet
    connection it should work exactly the same under a
    wireless connection. When it comes to the printer
    nothing is different. It does have in-built Ethernet
    so there's no way there's an issue with a bridging
    device.


    All I can say is that Ethernet-to-AirPort AppleTalk has worked fine for me for years with the HP LaserJet 5 MP connected to the Ethernet hub via an AsantéTalk adapter. If anything, I should be the one with a problem here!

    It's only with this new MacBook that things have stopped working properly.


    Now that's really ancient technology .

    Snicker all you like . This thing's been a real
    workhorse for us and I'll be sad to let it go.


    Oh, I am not snickering! I feel exactly the same way about my HP. In 11 years, I haven't had a single paper jam. It's worked like a charm from day one. Never given me any problems. I have absolutely no incentive to change printers.
  • 14. Re: AppleTalk printing with Graphite AirPort Base Station doesn't work
    infinite vortex Level 7 Level 7 (21,400 points)
    nsnowingWhat I find particularly surprising in your case is that you've never been able to get it to work.

    You're telling me!!

    Maybe it's something to do with the "flavour" of Ethernet used by the LaserWriter?

    I'm starting to think anything's possible. Although it's going to get replaced sometime soon with a colour laser printer so I'm not longer too bothered. In any case, using an LPR works fine all round.

    How old is the LaserWriter exactly?

    It's 7-8 years old. and still works a dream.

    Which kind of Ethernet connection is it?

    It's got one of those funny plugs that required an adapter that Apple used for a while. I can't remember what they're called but they were rather common at the time.

    But hey… wasn't you the one with the problem?!
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