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Helpful answers
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Jan 6, 2014 10:47 AM in response to Kelvin Hungby boylan,Don't waste your time bring your ATV to the store to get looked at. The odds of your ATV having a defect that impacts your Netflix streaming and nothing else is near zero.
Based on my observation there is nothing wrong with the software on the ATV at all. While there are a number of problems (infinite?) with Netflix I think the supposed ATV problem is actually tied to which content delivery network (CDN) is serving your ATV and ISP. I too was experiencing the 235kbps stream problem until my Netflix streaming on the ATV shifted from Netflix to Limelight. Problem completely and consistently went away - I can stream 5800kbps anytime now.
On the flip side, every other device I own that can stream Netflix (6+) is being served by netflix's CDN and they are all 235kbps with occasional runs up to the 1050 streaming rate. The exception is my iPhone which will do 3000kbps if I use Airplay and redirect the stream. I don't remember which CDN it is using.
I believe that Netflix is well aware of their CDN capacity problems and repointed a bunch of ATV (at least) to reduce the complaints and customer support burden but I fully expect it to return because press reports indicate they are shifting more streaming to their in-house CDN and Open Connect solutions and away from Limelight specifically.
I believe that Netflix Customer Support agents only have exist to deal with simple user problems like trying to streaming over a (potentially) over-burdened WiFi connection or streaming HD over a 1.5Mb link. I do not believe they have the ability to open an internal trouble ticket to investigate potential server (CDN) side problems.
I believe that if you are going to complain to Netflix, and I like the twitter approach although I haven't done it, I think you need to identify which CDN is serving your device and include that information along with the device/ISP info.
My own plan for when Netflix next shuffles their ISP/CDN/device mappings and steps on my streaming again is to respond by attempting to fake out their DNS look-ups and try to redirect the streaming app back to Limelight (or fast alternative).
That failing I'm going to buy a VPN service and look for a server that interconnects to Limelight (or fast alternative).
If that doesn't work I'll fire off an angry physical letter to some of the officers of Netflix and go howl at the moon since they'll have equal effect.
There are some on this thread that have or had experienced the reverse of what I'm experiencing - every other device except their ATV works great and claim it's proof of an ATV bug. NOT. It just means that your ISP/CDN/device mapping is different (and better) than mine. I'm jealous because you will still be able to stream when Netflix steps on with my path but that's not proof that there is a bug in their ATV player software. More that there are millions of ATV's out in the field and they are almost all out there to stream Netflix and your ATV is just getting served out of Bozeman instead of LA.
Mpls/St. Paul
Comcast 25Mb service
ATV3, Chromecast, iPad Air, Roku, Samsung(2), Mac Mini, etc.
streamed by netflix CDN except for ATV3 (Limelight)
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Jan 6, 2014 11:04 AM in response to DustyStormby bizringer,Agreed,
Applecare refused to support my device as it appears that that don't consider any liability on Netflix's service malfunctioning. If the device is otherwise working properly there's nothing they will do except deny that they have any control over the service, or that there is even a problem in the first place.
If you're an original ATV 3 (A1427) owner, it's likely that your warranty and Applecare is up anyways. Apple refuses to support any device out of warranty, regardless if their automatic software update broke it.
Every Applecare rep I spoke with refused to acknowelge the fact that the problem is 1. Isolated to the Apple TV and 2. That there are so many other people with the same issue.
I've always been the big Apple fan, and referred many friends/family based on Apple's great customer service. Since Steve's gone I've never had such a poor experience with any business. Apple needs to get it together.
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Jan 6, 2014 11:23 AM in response to boylanby jimpal,boylan wrote:
Don't waste your time bring your ATV to the store to get looked at. The odds of your ATV having a defect that impacts your Netflix streaming and nothing else is near zero.
Based on my observation there is nothing wrong with the software on the ATV at all. . . .
. . . . There are some on this thread that have or had experienced the reverse of what I'm experiencing - every other device except their ATV works great and claim it's proof of an ATV bug. NOT. It just means that your ISP/CDN/device mapping is different (and better) than mine. I'm jealous because you will still be able to stream when Netflix steps on with my path but that's not proof that there is a bug in their ATV player software. More that there are millions of ATV's out in the field and they are almost all out there to stream Netflix and your ATV is just getting served out of Bozeman instead of LA.
Yesss! You've got it right. Well said.
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Jan 6, 2014 11:38 AM in response to boylanby Vandergraff,@boylan (edit - I should be clear I am not disgreeing - in fact I agree with much of what you say- just adding my comments/experience)
I was one of those who was only having issues with their Apple TV and all my other devices were working fine.
Like you once my ATV started connecting to Limelight (around 17 December) I have no problem getting Super HD 5800 kbps. Interestingly my Chromecast has started having similar issues to the ones I saw with my ATV - and yes when I see the issues it is connecting to Netflix Streaming Services and when it works well it is using Akamai (another 3rd party CDN).
So at least for me the issue seems to be when I am connecting to Netflix as a CDN. However there are others in this thread reporting that only their ATV has issues with netflix CDN and that other devices Tivos, Roku etc work fone with Netflix CDN - so the issue doesn't seem to be quite as simple as if you get netflix as a CDN you will have problems.
It is also interesting if you go to Roku forums you will find threads mirroring this one were people say all my devices (including Apple TVs) work perfectly for Netflix apart from my Roku and the problems started a couple of months ago......
I am on Comcast.
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Jan 6, 2014 11:55 AM in response to bizringerby Loner T,bizringer wrote:
I've always been the big Apple fan, and referred many friends/family based on Apple's great customer service. Since Steve's gone I've never had such a poor experience with any business. Apple needs to get it together.
This may be too simplistic a boolean approach. I personally have had good experience(s) with Apple compared to many others. I would still recommend them.
From http://support.apple.com/kb/SP648
- A sustained 8-Mbit/s or faster Internet connection is recommended for viewing 1080p high-definition movies and TV shows, 6-Mbit/s or faster for viewing 720p content, and 2.5-Mbit/s or faster for standard-definition content. Internet connection speeds may vary depending on your ISP and other factors.
The interaction between the ATV 3 software and the target CDN is a factor within Apple/Netflix control. As I have suggested earlier there may be two separate problems (or as Boylan says an infinite set).
Netflix, as the content provider may have to carry the lion's share and burden of the problem.
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Jan 6, 2014 1:30 PM in response to Vandergraffby boylan,Vandergraff wrote:
@boylan (edit - I should be clear I am not disgreeing - in fact I agree with much of what you say- just adding my comments/experience)
I was one of those who was only having issues with their Apple TV and all my other devices were working fine.
Like you once my ATV started connecting to Limelight (around 17 December) I have no problem getting Super HD 5800 kbps. Interestingly my Chromecast has started having similar issues to the ones I saw with my ATV - and yes when I see the issues it is connecting to Netflix Streaming Services and when it works well it is using Akamai (another 3rd party CDN).
So at least for me the issue seems to be when I am connecting to Netflix as a CDN. However there are others in this thread reporting that only their ATV has issues with netflix CDN and that other devices Tivos, Roku etc work fone with Netflix CDN - so the issue doesn't seem to be quite as simple as if you get netflix as a CDN you will have problems.
It is also interesting if you go to Roku forums you will find threads mirroring this one were people say all my devices (including Apple TVs) work perfectly for Netflix apart from my Roku and the problems started a couple of months ago......
I am on Comcast
Yeah, I bought a Chromecast because you and others (bodosom?) had reported consistent HD (5800kbps) streaming and my experience mirrors yours: ATV got better and the Chromecast didn't work well for me.
My surmise is that they don't have much (anything?) in the way of dynamic load leveling and they have a table of device-isp-cdn pairings they periodically edit based on backend server metrics and PERHAPS volume of user complaints.
Again, I encourage people to try using twitter to see if that helps. I don't think it's an accident that the situation the the ATV has improved for a lot of people after the number of complaints to Netflix.
It use to be that Netflix support's go-to test configuration was a computer, hardwired ethernet and then go stream Heros - which had/has known good HD encoding. I bought a Mac Mini because that was the only reliable streaming solution then. Now, that's the worst choice I've got.
I'm just waiting for a class action lawsuit over this. Netflix totally deserves it.
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Jan 6, 2014 1:58 PM in response to boylanby Alienchow,Yeah, class action!
Seriously, though, I think it's time to kick Netflix to the curb. I get much better quality streaming Amazon over airplay from my iPad mini than I ever get with Netflix through any hardware connections. (ATV, PS3, Panny Bluray player)
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Jan 6, 2014 2:14 PM in response to Alienchowby boylan,Alienchow wrote:
Yeah, class action!
Seriously, though, I think it's time to kick Netflix to the curb. I get much better quality streaming Amazon over airplay from my iPad mini than I ever get with Netflix through any hardware connections. (ATV, PS3, Panny Bluray player)
I would switch to an alternative in a heart beat as Netflix has been a huge waste of time and money. Problem is that Amazon, which seems to be the best alternative, appears to have a small collection (based on what's available with my Amazon prime subscription).
Other issue for me is that I really like the Apple Netflix user interface while the only Amazon interface I've used, on the Roku, made me want to smash the Roku into little bits.
Honestly if the pricing was more competitive I'd switch to streaming off of iTunes just to avoid the aggravation.
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Jan 6, 2014 3:57 PM in response to boylanby Bob Hickman,Boyland,
How are you figuring out what CDN your device is using? I can set up Wireshark, what IPs should I be looking for? How did u get Netflix to change it? I am in the group where my Ipad streams a steady 4.3 Mbps, and my ATV jumps all over the place. I want to see if they are both on the same CDN.
Thanks...
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Jan 6, 2014 4:14 PM in response to Bob Hickmanby Vandergraff,I check it in my router which shows the active connections for each of my local devices.
When streaming Netflix from my Apple TV I normally see it connect to Apple, Amazon (for DRM / traffic management) and a CDN.
I need to use a look up service to determine who each of the external IP connections is eg http://www.dslreports.com/whois
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Jan 6, 2014 4:53 PM in response to Vandergraffby boylan,I'm doing something similar to Vandergraff. I ssh (telnet) to my router and run netstat -a | grep ATVipaddress because I don't have to look up the ip addresses that way. I have a pretty new router - Vandergraff is doing what you typically have to do.
Netflix reconfigured and changed my CDN all on their own - although they may have gotten tired of people like me complaining and chewing up their CSR time.
Don't know what Wireshark is. If it'll log DNS lookups you might try to capture the netflix sequence from a cold start. That could be highly useful in the future if you have to fake out a dns entry and repoint one to trick them into using a different CDN.
Very curious to see what other people are getting for CDN's so please post yours: isp-device-CDN.
I was so disappointed when I couldn't get my iPad Air to stream better than the 235kbps. We only have one TV and I thought that would a nice option.
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Jan 6, 2014 4:57 PM in response to boylanby Loner T,boylan wrote:
Don't know what Wireshark is. If it'll log DNS lookups you might try to capture the netflix sequence from a cold start. That could be highly useful in the future if you have to fake out a dns entry and repoint one to trick them into using a different CDN.
Wireshark is a UI on top a utility like tcpdump/snoop. It can do DNS name resolution, but it gets slower with name resolution being enabled.
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Jan 6, 2014 5:17 PM in response to Bob Hickmanby bodosom,Bob Hickman wrote:
Boyland,
How are you figuring out what CDN your device is using? I can set up Wireshark, what IPs should I be looking for?
Wireshark isn't really the best tool for this. Ntop is a good choice. You'll get something like:
ipv4_1.lagg0.c033.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net => atv3 1.69Mb 545kb 681kb
My ATV3 is called atv3.
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Jan 6, 2014 5:15 PM in response to Vandergraffby Bob Hickman,Humm, seems my Netgear N600 does not show active connection destinations. I have checked each screen.
But thanks for answering.
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Jan 6, 2014 5:29 PM in response to boylanby bodosom,boylan wrote:
There are some on this thread that have or had experienced the reverse of what I'm experiencing - every other device except their ATV works great and claim it's proof of an ATV bug. NOT. It just means that your ISP/CDN/device mapping is different (and better) than mine.
I typically stream from nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net, usually ipv4_1.lagg0.c033.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net but sometimes ipv4_1.lagg0.c045.nyc001.ix.nflxvideo.net. One is 30ms away the other 40ms. I can get 5800 on my PS3 or TiVo from either one. My ATV3 can get up to 1750 from the closer one and 1050 from the further. 30ms is not too bad, my IX first-hop is 19ms away (the head-end is much closer). My Limelight and Level3 ingres points are a bit closer than the nflxvideo. Closer helps the ATV but has no effect on the other clients.
How does this fit with "ISP/CDN/device mapping"?