Q: Why can't I manually add artwork for some albums (Mac)

Thanks fior the explanation folks. I lost artwork when I re-ripped some music as WAV files. Trying to reload my artwork was driving me crazy until I read your explanations.

I thought I wouldn't be able to tell the difference between CODECs either, Chris. But it all depends on what equipment you're using. I use a Krell KID to extract the digital files from my iPod while bypassing the internal iPod DAC. I have B&W speakers. I can tell the difference between file types. For portability, I use a Cypher Labs AlgoRythm DAC to do the same thing as my Krell. I have a set of JH16 in ear monitors. I can tell the difference between files. I attended a demonstration where they were using Martin Login CLX Art speakers on a high-end system. You have no idea whether you can tell the difference unless you listen to REALLY good equipment. At least I was never sure whether I had audiophile ears or not until listening to great equipment. My Apple Lossless files sounded awful on this system. The sound quality of Apple Lossless is lesser than WAV on my systems.

I understand that folks like me, who use WAV files, are in the minority. But audiophiles have been complaining for years about iPods. It's a shame that Apple refuses to accommodate people who enjoy high quality sound.

I'd like to see a future fix for WAV file artwork.

Diogeneswasright wrote:

 

The sound quality of Apple Lossless is lesser than WAV on my systems.

Then use AIFF.

I'd like to see a future fix for WAV file artwork.

You'll have to talk with Microsoft about changing the WAV standard they developed.

Thanks, Chris. Unfortunately, MANY people have talked with Microsoft and Apple about music quality and it's accommodation in iTunes. As long as most folks are perfectly happly with MP3 files, they have little incentive to change. The market for audiophile sound is small.

I did take the advice of using AIFF and it works like a charm. My .jpg album artwork attaches just fine. So now I've got a mix of WAV and AIFF files. Until I'm willing to buy a pair of $25,000 apiece speakers, I can deal with any slight difference in sound quality. And if I ever do decide to spend that much on my equipment, chances are I've become too insane to care anyway.

You are able to add artwork to AIFF files?    Strange, I have tried over and over with no luck.   I can add art to MP3, M4A, etc. but not to AIFF.    And yes, I am using the same Get Info method to do it.   Are you on PC?  If you are on Mac, what OS are you using?

Sorry for taking time, Terrence. Busy motorcycle weekend.

Yessir. Artwork adds to the AIFF files on my Asus Zenbook using Windows 8 (which completely ***** in my opinion). I don't do Mac and I'm thinking of dumping my iPhone. I have a poor history with Apple products but the 160GB iPod fit my needs for space. I now have a 240GB iPod. Both work well for audiophile sound when I bypass their internal DACs. I'm still waiting for the day when I can own a 4TB (or more) portable music player.

Hi, thanks.   I just did some more searching in the forums.  I think we can conclude that people's experiences are different on different platforms and iTunes versions, and are inconsistent even with the same platform and iTunes version with various file formats. Some people can save artwork to an AIFF, but I am not able to now, but was able to a few versions back.  And when I convert to WAV, iTunes greys out the option to change the artwork!  So, obviously iTunes has problems adding artwork to all file formats, and they do not seem to care to fix this issue.

4TB of music? Wow that will be a big collection, even at full resolution.

I’m an idiot, Terrence. I suppose the (Mac) in the title should have clued me in but reading directions seems to be my fallback position.

Yessir, I’ve got computer savvy friends who love Apple products and platforms and those that hate them. It does seem to be a preference issue. I've had iTunes blow up on me so many times that I’m in the latter category as of now. My iPhone lost all of my information after their last update. Even the tech guy couldn’t help me. I had to reset my iPhone to factory specs. I was able to retrieve most of my information from iCloud but the whole process was a pain. I still haven’t got my custom ringtones back.

Chris’ suggestion worked on my system. Some of my WAV files hold artwork but not all. I need to be careful to name my CDs exactly as they are in the store. Some remastered versions don’t pick up artwork until I take “remastered” out of the title that downloaded with the CD. Also, some CDs have multiple artists that download with the CD. I’ve got to sync the artist(s) with the store as well. I mostly listen to Jazz. And I listen to some obscure music that isn’t for sale in the store. Once I’ve tried to sync the titles and artists, or if it’s a CD the store doesn’t carry, and the CD doesn’t hold artwork, I reload the CD as AIFF and it has held the artwork every time so far.

Now, reading your previous posts, and realizing that I don’t seem to do very well following directions, I’m going to go off-topic… again.

I visited one site where the guy listened to both WAV and AIFF files. He preferred the WAV sound. The chief computer geek at my local Best Buy store prefers the AIFF sound. I have no idea what type of equipment they were using. I can tell you I listened to Apple Lossless files on Martin-Logan speakers on a VERY high end system at a friend’s audio store. It’s hard to tell the difference until you listen to sound on $25,000 (apiece) speakers. The Apple Lossless files sounded flat and fuzzy. It was awful compared to WAV.

I run my iPod both portably and at home. At home I use a Krell KID and Papa Dock that extracts the music before it runs through the iPod’s internal DAC. I have B&W speakers. I can tell the difference between MP3, Apple Lossless, and WAV. On my portable system I use a Cypher Labs AlgoRhythm Solo DAC which performs the same process as my Krell. I use Jerry Harvey JH16 in-ear-monitors. Again, I can tell the difference between MP3, Apple Lossless, and WAV.

I’ve asked my audio store friend to compare WAV and AIFF on his systems. He’s got an audiophile ear so I’m waiting to hear what he thinks. You never really know whether you have an audiophile ear until you have the opportunity to listen on high-end equipment. The Martin-Logan’s were a religious experience for me. As are B&W’s Diamond 800s and Nautilus speakers.

I'm now purchasing a dedicated machine. I'm comfortable with XI computers because they built me a dedicated screaming desktop for two programs I use: AutoCAD and ArchiCAD. Since I couldn't find a laptop that would fit a 3.5" drive, I'm getting a 3TB tower from XI. That should contain my current collection of WAV and AIFF music with some room to grow.

I've backed up my music to an external drive. I own iExplorer (3rd party software) because Apple has lost my playlists multiple times. iExplorer will rebuild the playlists on my computer from my iPod. But if I can't hold all of my music on my iPod, I can't rebuild all of my playlists when iTunes loses my playlists (and it will) in the future.

I am now in the process of reloading all of my music to my new XI. I'll be busy for the next couple of months. The tutorial for transfering all of my iTunes info to external drive did not work as well as I hoped. Even the tech guy couldn't recover my info.

As long as most folks are happy storing MP3 files, Terrence, Apple doesn’t seem to have much incentive to please us audiophiles.

Based on history, 4TB will probably seem like caveman times as technology moves forward.

Hi again.  As we are now well off topic (from the original 'add artwork' discussion) I'll make this my last response. 

Regarding your thoughts on audio file formats and quality: it makes no sense that WAV and AIFF at the same sample rate and word depth would sound any different, they are both complete uncompressed 'source' material. To prove that, most recording studio applications (Pro Tools, Logic, Cubase, etc.) all use either WAV or AIFF as their source track formats because they are 'pure' digital formats at full resolution.  The choice of whether to use WAV or AIFF is typically only based on platform preference (PC or Mac).   I suspect if you hear a difference between those two formats the files are either at different resolutions, or the system they are being played on is doing some kind of unwanted conversion before it hits the analog path to the speakers.

Regarding iTunes, your issues with it have helped me make a decision.  I never liked the idea of having all my music ripped or archived by a proprietary system like iTunes.  Therefore, up to now I have always copied all my digital audio files out of the iTunes library to a separate set of folders where I keep full resolution AIFF and lower resolution (MP3 or AAC) versions of each song.  That entire set of folders is backed up to two locations, one is a separate local hard drive, the other is a portable hard drive that I swap out regularly with an offsite mirrored one.  If the house burns down or gets burgled I will still have all my music. I have been debating whether to save myself a lot of time and effort by simply keeping all songs in the iTunes library and just backing up the entire iTunes library regularly. But given the problems you have had with iTunes I will continue to use this independent method to avoid risking losing files.  I recommend to you that if you cherish your apparently very large music collection you use a similar approach.  I would not trust any single hard drive or Cloud-based storage to secure your valuable data.

Regards, Terrence

Howdy, Terence. The supposed "sound quality" difference between WAV and AIFF makes no sense to me either. I also suspect it's a subjective opinion based on platform preference. But, especially after spending time on Head-Fi.org, I now consider that there are people in this world who have finer sound discrimination than myself. I trust my friend at the audio store. He is a sound systems design engineer, past president of an audiophile society, and has access to high end equipment. I've asked him to listen and tell me if he decerns any difference in sound. I can report back if you'd like. But it would probably still be his subjective opinion. I prefer slightly more base than most audiophiles to whom I've spoken. JH Audio used to make a JH15 model with flatter base response than the JH16s. Apparently many audiophiles prefer the flatter base response. I also noticed that JH has discontinued the JH15 model (as well as reducing the price on the JH16s and adding a higher-end model, darn it!). Apparently we basists won out, subjectively.

When it comes to computers, I have both B & C options. Some platforms are less stable, some programs are glitchy, viruses happen, updates can be nasty and, certainly in my case, there's always operator error.

Why Apple makes it so difficult to transfer my existing music, meta-data, and playlists, to a new computer is a subject thread in itself.

Cheers, David

Diogeneswasright wrote:

 

Howdy, Terence. The supposed "sound quality" difference between WAV and AIFF makes no sense to me either. I also suspect it's a subjective opinion based on platform preference. But, especially after spending time on Head-Fi.org, I now consider that there are people in this world who have finer sound discrimination than myself. I trust my friend at the audio store. He is a sound systems design engineer, past president of an audiophile society, and has access to high end equipment. I've asked him to listen and tell me if he decerns any difference in sound. I can report back if you'd like

Make sure he does a double blind test against the original.

Why Apple makes it so difficult to transfer my existing music, meta-data, and playlists, to a new computer is a subject thread in itself.

This gets a bit hectic, so bear with me...

1. Copy the entire /Music/iTunes folder to /Music/ on new computer.

That is all.

"Make sure he does a double blind test against the original."

I will, Chris. I trust his judgement on all matters sound related. He will check any measureable data he can first. Then he will qualify any opinions he makes as his opinions. Then he will give me logical reasons for those opinions. Then I'll determine whether his priorities match my own. Unless I recieve new information, my priorities have already determined which way I'll go.

I had an experimental epiphany. All of my music, externally stored as AIFF files, came back into iTunes with all of the attached meta-data and album artwork. None of my music, externally stored as WAV files, came back into iTunes with the attached meta-data and album artwork. The WAV files came back into iTunes renamed as 01 Track, 02 Track, ... with no data showing artist, album, year, ...

Since iTunes appears to be completely Apple proprietary, I'll concede to convention. It doesn't make sense for me to rip my CDs as anything other than AIFF if I want album artwork and meta-data in iTunes and on my iPod.

Hectic? Chris, after reading a number of complicated tutorials about transfering music, after iTunes didn't recognize my music when I transferred my collection to external storage (even though I followed the tutorials step-by-step), after losing a bunch of meta-data related to my collection while transfering my music to external storage, and after having a tech guy be unable to recover that data, I'm a bit gun shy. But after reading many of your posts, and using your AIFF suggestion, I take what you say VERY SERIOUSLY. I'm going to back up my music six ways to Sunday and see if the process is that mindless. I was also considering using Windows Easy Transfer.

Diogeneswasright wrote:
I will, Chris. I trust his judgement on all matters sound related. He will check any measureable data he can first. Then he will qualify any opinions he makes as his opinions. Then he will give me logical reasons for those opinions. Then I'll determine whether his priorities match my own. Unless I recieve new information, my priorities have already determined which way I'll go.

Regardless of what anyone tells you, measures, diagnoses, etc, etc., what YOU hear is what you hear and what YOU like is what you like.

I had an experimental epiphany. All of my music, externally stored as AIFF files, came back into iTunes with all of the attached meta-data and album artwork. None of my music, externally stored as WAV files, came back into iTunes with the attached meta-data and album artwork. The WAV files came back into iTunes renamed as 01 Track, 02 Track, ... with no data showing artist, album, year, ...

A lot of people with Windows complain about this.

WAV & AIFF both are simply containers for data.

Windows usually uses WAV (developed by MS and others) and Macs use AIFF (developed by Apple and others).

So when people move to Mac, they get all upset because their music is WAV with no data/tags, and it comes in Track 1, Track 2 (the filename) , etc. with no other data than the audio (thanks Microsoft). When using WAV, the data is stored in the library file (of whatever program is being used) and that's how you can see the artist, album, etc.

AIFF has tags for all this data (including artwork).

WAV and AIFF both are simply containers with data/tags.

The sound file is only part of this data and it is a bit for bit copy of the PCM audio from a RIP'd CD so there should be zero difference in the audio/quality. If there is a difference, (or even a perceived difference) almost always, it's the equipment/software used for playback that makes them sound different. Or crappy software used to RIP which does not do a bit for bit copy.

WAV can use "chunks" which do pretty much the same as tags, but it's not really standard and most software simply ignores them if they are present.

Hectic? Chris, after reading a number of complicated tutorials about transfering music, after iTunes didn't recognize my music when I transferred my collection to external storage (even though I followed the tutorials step-by-step), after losing a bunch of meta-data related to my collection while transfering my music to external storage, and after having a tech guy be unable to recover that data, I'm a bit gun shy. But after reading many of your posts, and using your AIFF suggestion, I take what you say VERY SERIOUSLY. I'm going to back up my music six ways to Sunday and see if the process is that mindless. I was also considering using Windows Easy Transfer.

First, if you have any music on the new computer you want to keep, make sure you copy it to somewhere else.

Then quit iTunes on the new computer and replace the current /Music/iTunes/ folder.

Then open iTunes.

iTunes library will be the same as the other computer because it is a copy of the that library.

OMG, Chris! I actually understood most of what you posted! Thank you for being patient. Your communication skills must be good because my computerese comprehension skills are... modest at best. I will have no music on my new computer because it is a tabula rasa from XI. So, let me make sure I understand this:

After downloading iTunes on my new computer, and authorizing iTunes for that new computer, I then quit iTunes on the new computer. I then use Windows File Explorer to locate and delete the Music file located at iTunes/iTunes Media/Music on the new computer. I then use Windows File Explorer to locate and copy the Music file from iTunes/iTunes Media/Music on my old computer to my new computer. And, voila! I'm good to go!

With my computer skills, I'm not sure I can manage to "replace file." But if deleting the empty Music folder on my new computer, before replacing it with the filled Music folder on my old computer, will screw something up, PLEASE let me know.

Sorry if I seem to be obtuse or Captain Obvious here, Chris. Most computer savy folk are terrible with directions. I now know how my contractors feel. After spending months creating construction documents with specifications, many pictures, and many notes describing exactly what my design intentions are, they sometimes misinterpret my directions. I've done this for many years so I'm pretty meticulous about explaining something I know as if the person to whom I'm explaining it has absolutely no comprehension of the subject. I wish computer folk felt the same way as do I. If I push the wrong button on my computer it falls down around me.

I'm using an LG- LGBE14NU40 to rip my CDs to my computer using USB3. Any thoughts on that? I am teachable.

I then use Windows File Explorer to locate and delete the Music file located at iTunes/iTunes Media/Music on the new computer

On the new computer, delete the /Music/iTunes/ folder.

I then use Windows File Explorer to locate and copy the Music file from iTunes/iTunes Media/Music on my old computer to my new computer

No.

Copy the entire /Music/iTunes/ folder, not only iTunes media folder inside /Music/iTunes/ folder on old computer.

Put this iTunes folder into /Music/ on new computer.

Well, yeah, for part of that. I kind of figured I’d have to copy my “Album Artwork” folder which contains my “Cache”, “Cloud Purchases”, “Download”, “Missing Album Artwork”, and “Remote” folders. I planned on copying the “iTunes Library Extras” database file, “iTunes Library” database file, “iTunes Library Genius” database file, “iTunes Library” XML file, and the “iTunes Music Library” XML file.

But if I copy the entire iTunes folder from my old computer into the iTunes “Music” folder on my new computer, won’t my new pathway for syncing music be (Drive):\iTunes\iTunes Media\Music\iTunes\iTunes Media\Music?

Seriously Chris, I never studied how computers work and I’ve never got this far in depth with my iTunes.

iTunes on my old computer syncs to D:\iTunes\iTunes Media\Music. There is a “Music” folder, with a note icon, in the “Libraries” folder on my C: drive, but I don’t use it. I moved iTunes and changed the pathway because there was more space on my D: drive. There is no "Music" folder on my D: drive except in my iTunes Media folder.

My new computer comes with a 500GB main drive and a 3TB secondary drive. I will store all of my iTunes data on the secondary drive. In the past, my computers have named the main drive partition C: and the secondary partition D:. The “Music” (if that’s what you’re referring to) folder, with the note icon, in the “Libraries” folder, has always been on C:. I assume (although, when I assume with computers my butt hurts) that there will be a “Music” folder, with a note icon, in a “Libraries” folder on my main drive. But I won’t use that drive. I have no idea how they will name my new main drive nor a completely different secondary drive. C and D maybe? Or if they partition the main drive it may be C, D, and Fred. I told them I want the second drive unpartitioned.

When we built the computer using the XI website, the pictures I looked at made it seem as if the 3TB drive was a completely different drive from the main one. But I have no comprehension of whether this is actually one drive partitioned into two or two completely different mechanical drives connected together. But my iTunes will be located on the secondary drive in either case.

So let’s make sure I understand this: Are you talking about moving iTunes into the “Music” folder, with a note icon, in the “Libraries” folder, on my main drive? Or are you talking about moving iTunes into the “Music” folder within iTunes on my new computer? Because the first option probably isn’t going to work for me and the second option seems like an awfully long sync pathway.