Tim Hassett

Q: Setting Up Roaming - New AirPort Extremes and Utility

Hello Everyone,

 

I just purchased two new AirPort Extreme units (the new 802.11ac capable ones) and want to setup a roaming network whereby the 2nd APE is upstairs and is connected via ethernet to the first APE down in the basement where my internet connection comes in. 

 

Like this:

 

Cable modem ---ethernet---->  APE 1 downstairs ------ethernet------>  APE 2 upstairs. 

 

My question:

 

- How is this done using the most current version of the AirPort utility for OS X?  (version 6.3)

- Because I'm dealing with these brand new 802.11ac units, is setup any different? 

 

 

I've already done a bunch of research on this and have found very helpful kb articles and discussions on this, but they all reference the old hardware and old utility.  Such as:  http://support.apple.com/kb/HT4260

MacBook Pro (Retina, Mid 2012), Mac OS X (10.7.4), 16GB RAM

Posted on Jun 27, 2013 2:23 PM

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Q: Setting Up Roaming - New AirPort Extremes and Utility

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  • by MacPCmb,

    MacPCmb MacPCmb Apr 26, 2014 5:24 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Mac OS X
    Apr 26, 2014 5:24 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Bob Timmons wrote:

     

    To set up a Airport Roaming network, does my "main" base station by defintion have to be set with"Network tab > Router Mode: DHCP and NAT"  or can roaming still work if it is instead set as "Network tab > Router Mode: Off (Bridge Mode) with the FIOS router providing DHCP services?

    If you will read back up a few posts, you will see that I have already answered this question for you.

     

    First, Apple assumes in the example that you will use nothing but Apple routers, which would be expected. Second, the illustration also assumes that you have a simple modem....not a modem/router or gateway device.

     

    So, the first AirPort in the Apple example would provide DHCP and NAT services for the entire network and all the other AirPorts would be configured to operate in Bridge Mode, so they would operate as wireless access points.

     

    It would have been nice if Apple provided another example....one showing that the user did not have a simple modem, but instead a modem/router or gateway type of device.

     

    In this example, the modem/router or gateway would be providing DHCP and NAT services for the network and all the other wireless access points would be configured in Bridge Mode.

    So, with a FIOS router (gateway) "upstream" on the network, any and all Apple routers would be configured to operate in Bridge Mode.

     

    Thanks, Bob  -- I appreciate the clarification.  This worked like a charm today.  Problem solved!

  • by MacUserAE,

    MacUserAE MacUserAE Jun 21, 2014 11:10 AM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (24 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jun 21, 2014 11:10 AM in response to Bob Timmons

    Bob,

     

    I have read carefully through this thread and have somewhat an off topic question.  I have a verizon FIOS router that I have connected to a a/c Time Capsule.  I have several airport expresses connected via roaming (ethernet connection).  Obviously because of FIOS setup the Time capsule and all airports are in bridge mode.  I am having an issue with my wifi sync to my computer.  When the computer is awake the sync from any iOS device goes thru.  When the computer goes to sleep it is hit or miss.  I know that the wake-on-pan packet is going thru because when the wifi sync tries to initiate the hard drive spins up.

     

    Any thoughts? ideas?

     

    Would really appreciate anyones input on this matter.

     

    Thanks

  • by bareyb,

    bareyb bareyb Sep 13, 2014 11:06 AM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 13, 2014 11:06 AM in response to Tesserax

    Oh my goodness. Thank You!!!  I've been trying to figure out how to set up a Roaming Network, and trying to use the OLD instructions on Apples support site  is very confusing.

     

    Is there any way to send Apple a message to update their info? It took me quite a while to find this post and believe it or not this is the ONLY accurate set of instructions out there. You are very generous to donate your time and the instructions. They are about as clear and easy to understand as one could want. I actually signed in to these forums just to say thank you. Hopefully Apple will get on it and update the support site. Pretty ridiculous they haven't yet. I would imagine Roaming Networks are a fairly popular endeavor.

     

    Update:  My second Airport Extreme just showed up and I'm ready to give it a shot. Chances are it will probably configure itself, but it's nice to have these instructions as a back up. Thanks again.

  • by bareyb,

    bareyb bareyb Sep 13, 2014 1:23 PM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 13, 2014 1:23 PM in response to Tesserax

    Tesserax wrote:

     

    The good news is that the basic roaming network setup is the same with the new 802.11ac base stations, but you did discover that the Apple Support article is a bit dated. I would expect them to update it soon.

     

    In the mean time, let me try to give you some step-by-step instructions using the 6.x version of the AirPort Utility. First, there are a few key elements to successfully configuring a roaming network, and they are:

    • All of the base station must be interconnected by Ethernet. Note: You can use non-Apple routers in this type of network.
    • All base stations must have unique Base Station Names.
    • All base stations must use the same Radio Mode and Wireless Security Type/Password.
    • Each base station should be on a different Radio Channel. Using "Automatic" works well here.
    • All base stations, other than the "main" base station, must be reconfigured as a bridge.

     

    Let's start with the "main" base station. This will be the one directly connected to the Internet modem:

    • AirPort Utility > Select the "main" base station > Edit
    • Base Station tab > Base Station Name > Enter a unique name here
    • Internet tab > Connect Using: DHCP
    • Wireless tab > Network Mode: Create a wireless network > Wireless Network Name > Enter the desired name. This will be used on all base stations > Wireless Security: WPA2 Personal (recommended) > Wireless Password > Enter the desired wireless password. This will be used on all base stations.
    • Network tab > Router Mode: DHCP and NAT
    • Click on Update

     

    For each additional base station added to the roaming network:

    • AirPort Utility > Select the appropriate base station > Edit
    • Base Station tab > Base Station Name > Enter a unique name here
    • Internet tab > Connect Using: DHCP
    • Wireless tab > Network Mode: Create a wireless network > Wireless Network Name > Enter the desired name. This will be used on all base stations > Wireless Security: WPA2 Personal (recommended) > Wireless Password > Enter the desired wireless password. This will be used on all base stations.
    • Network tab > Router Mode: Off (Bridge Mode)
    • Click on Update

     

    Thanks again!  Hopefully Apple will update their support page to reflect the latest version of Airport Utility.

     

    Side Note: If you are using a brand new Apple Router as your Bridge or one that has been Reset (push in reset button on back for 8 seconds) it *should* configure itself automatically to be used in Bridge Mode and will copy over your settings from the Primary Base Station. Worked perfectly for me, but it's still important that people can see these instructions if for some reason they will need to set it up manually.

  • by 750 H2C,

    750 H2C 750 H2C Nov 16, 2014 7:31 AM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Mac OS X
    Nov 16, 2014 7:31 AM in response to Tesserax

    Thanks Tesserax, I have exactly the same setup as Tim Hassett and used your magnificent description to connect my devices the correct way. Many thanks.

  • by SeaAg98,

    SeaAg98 SeaAg98 Nov 18, 2014 8:42 AM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 18, 2014 8:42 AM in response to Tesserax

    Hi Tesserax and Bob Timmons.  As expressed by the others in this thread, thank you for your good, clear explanation.  Above, SBsyncro asked a very good question regarding the Radio Channel setup. I, too, have been running a roaming network for a few years, but have manually configured all radio channels to be on the exact same number (11: 2.4 GHz and 149: 5 GHz).  From memory, when I first set this up, that was the recommendation and also to limit interference from other devices.  Though, I am onIy running a 2.4 GHz network at the moment.

     

    have two questions:

     

    1. What is the reasoning behind setting the radio signal to different modes per wireless access point (either Extreme or Express)?

    2.  Is this roaming network a true mesh network? i.e. seamless handoff between two signals without interrupting streaming such as Skype, GoTo Meeting, etc. etc?

    3.  If this is not a true mesh, does Apple have an ability to set up a mesh using this hardware?

     

    Thanks in advance for your support.

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Nov 18, 2014 9:37 AM in response to SeaAg98
    Level 10 (105,268 points)
    Wireless
    Nov 18, 2014 9:37 AM in response to SeaAg98
    1. What is the reasoning behind setting the radio signal to different modes per wireless access point (either Extreme or Express)?

    You do this to avoid interference that would be created by having two access points using the same wireless channel. In most cases, using the Automatic channel setting on each access point will take care of this for you automatically, but some users swear by setting channels manually.


    2.  Is this roaming network a true mesh network? i.e. seamless handoff between two signals without interrupting streaming such as Skype, GoTo Meeting, etc. etc?

    it depends on the wireless device that is connecting to the network. Most Mac computers will automatically switch between access points as they move about the house to pick up the best quality signal, but iOS devices like the iPad and iPhone will not, as well as most PCs that I have used.

     

    With iOS devices, you need to temporarily turn off the WiFi on the device when you move the iPad or iPhone from one location to another, then turn WiFi back on, and the device will usually pick up the signal from the closest access point. Sometimes, an iOS device will switch from one access point to another after a time....4-5 minutes or so...and sometimes not. Nature of the beast with the iOS operating system.

     

    3.  If this is not a true mesh, does Apple have an ability to set up a mesh using this hardware?

    See answer to 2. above. It is up to the device that is connecting to the network.....not the network.

  • by 750 H2C,

    750 H2C 750 H2C Nov 18, 2014 9:43 AM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Mac OS X
    Nov 18, 2014 9:43 AM in response to Bob Timmons

    Hi, I' ll just add a quick question here, that might have to do with this.

     

    Yesterday when I watched the (streaming) news, the playback was jumping forward and backward on the timeline; first it would jump ahead five seconds or so, then it would jump back five seconds. This happened many times during the 30-minute show.

     

    Can the reason be that my laptop (MacBook Pro) was switching between access points? Both my Airports are pretty close to where I was sitting, but on separate floors.

  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Nov 18, 2014 9:50 AM in response to SeaAg98
    Level 9 (54,684 points)
    Wireless
    Nov 18, 2014 9:50 AM in response to SeaAg98

    1. What is the reasoning behind setting the radio signal to different modes per wireless access point (either Extreme or Express)?

    Actually, you will NOT want each base station to use the same radio channel due to interference between nearby stations. Instead, you want each to use a unique channel. As Bob has mentioned, this is where leaving the Radio Mode in 'Automatic" usually works best.

     

    In medium-to-large corporate networks, network engineers go to great lengths to make sure roaming base stations do not interfere with each other. As you can imagine, especially on the 2.4 GHz band, there are not a lot of channels to work with. In this case, the engineers stagger the channels so that similar ones are as far away apart as possible.

  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Nov 18, 2014 9:56 AM in response to 750 H2C
    Level 9 (54,684 points)
    Wireless
    Nov 18, 2014 9:56 AM in response to 750 H2C

    Although anything is possible, I would suspect that if your MacBook Pro was on a threshold between the signal strength perceived by the laptop, you would temporarily lose connectivity. This, in turn, could play havoc with the playback cache of your streaming video player with the broadcast coming in sporadically ... but, then again, that is exactly what the cache is designed for.

     

    A couple of tests to try:

    1. Temporarily move the MBP to be adjacent to one or the other base station. Try streaming again. Does the "time warp" reoccur?
    2. If possible, increase the playback cache of the streaming video player. Did this help?
  • by 750 H2C,

    750 H2C 750 H2C Nov 18, 2014 9:58 AM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Mac OS X
    Nov 18, 2014 9:58 AM in response to Tesserax

    I'll try these things, thanks.

     

    Just as you say, this is exactly why there's a cache, but if it's too small, it might cause these hiccups.

  • by SeaAg98,

    SeaAg98 SeaAg98 Nov 18, 2014 10:42 AM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Nov 18, 2014 10:42 AM in response to Bob Timmons

    Thanks again Bob and Tesserax.  You guys answered my question.  My latest issue has been the handoff on my IPhone between AP signals.  Your explanation has been quite helpful.

  • by GFHealy,

    GFHealy GFHealy Jan 14, 2015 2:48 PM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 14, 2015 2:48 PM in response to Tesserax

    Tesserax

     

    I know that this is an old post, but you have save me!!  I hired a tech and spent $2000, what you figured out in 15 minutes.

     

    Thanks

  • by Tesserax,

    Tesserax Tesserax Jan 14, 2015 5:50 PM in response to GFHealy
    Level 9 (54,684 points)
    Wireless
    Jan 14, 2015 5:50 PM in response to GFHealy

    Thanks for your comments. I'm glad you found my post helpful. I'm sorry you had to go through the expense of hiring a tech.

  • by robshort,

    robshort robshort Feb 23, 2015 9:49 AM in response to Tesserax
    Level 1 (4 points)
    iTunes
    Feb 23, 2015 9:49 AM in response to Tesserax

    Just another reply to your post to say "thank you!" Tesserax, your instructions were the best kind: clear, concise, and completely accurate. My Airport Extreme (ac), Airport Express (b/g), and Airport Express (n) now comprise a roaming network that covers the entire house and the front- & backyards. Hat's off to you!

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