Keys916

Q: Layering and Multitimbral Instruments?

Hi all,

 

I have been looking through the documentation and forums for a long time to find a way to do this - maybe there is not a way yet.  I frequently use Omnisphere, Kontakt, and a host of other multitimbral VSTs to generate sounds for a given song, and it would be SO helpful if there were a way to separately map the Key Ranges for different MIDI channels in MS.  For example, I am using 3 different lead patches in three different key ranges across one controller on a given song, all generated by the same synth on a separate channel - how can I map those separate ranges?  This is relatively easy to do internally in Omni, but a pain to do in Kontakt, and it does not then show ranges in the performance screen, plus it's a separate step.  This seems like a pretty basic functionality that should be easy to achieve, but I have not had any luck.  Any takers?

 

If this does not yet exist, I hope Apple is reading this - add it in!

 

Thanks!

Posted on May 6, 2014 1:41 PM

Close

Q: Layering and Multitimbral Instruments?

  • All replies
  • Helpful answers

  • by lifenoise,

    lifenoise lifenoise May 7, 2014 5:32 AM in response to Keys916
    Level 3 (758 points)
    May 7, 2014 5:32 AM in response to Keys916

    You can set key ranges in edit mode>instrument channel strip inspector>layer editor.  You can grab either end of the colored layer bar and drag it to the desired key range or set high key and low key with the learn function. You see the layers/splits in the workspace, and even better in performance mode. See below.

     

    Screen Shot 2014-05-07 at 8.24.17 AM.pngScreen Shot 2014-05-07 at 8.25.49 AM.png

  • by Keys916,

    Keys916 Keys916 May 7, 2014 7:47 AM in response to lifenoise
    Level 1 (4 points)
    iTunes
    May 7, 2014 7:47 AM in response to lifenoise

    I use layering all the time, and am familiar with the way it works for regular channel strips, but in the case where a multitimbral instrument is used, there is only one range available - I cannot adjust the ranges of the separate MIDI channels separately.  This is the problem.  Am I missing some way to unlock them from one another?

  • by CCTM,

    CCTM CCTM May 10, 2014 8:22 AM in response to Keys916
    Level 6 (10,939 points)
    May 10, 2014 8:22 AM in response to Keys916

    Hi

     

     

    Keys916 wrote:

     

    I use layering all the time, and am familiar with the way it works for regular channel strips, but in the case where a multitimbral instrument is used, there is only one range available - I cannot adjust the ranges of the separate MIDI channels separately.  This is the problem.  Am I missing some way to unlock them from one another?

    No...

     

    You cannot currently split one channel strip, even if it is using a multi-timbral layer. If you loaded up two instances of the required plugin in different channel strips you would be "good to go" (but you may wish to avoid any memory hit)

     

    It seems that you cannot "Paste as Alias" more than one instance per Patch either, such that you could use two alias's in the same Patch and keysplit them.

     

     

    A workaround would be to "Paste as Alias" one strip at Set level, the other at Patch Level. Choose the required "multi-timbral" MIDI setup, and sort out keysplits for one at Set level, the other at Patch level.

     

    To get 3 splits without using more than one instance, you'd probably have to add an Alias at Concert level (overriding as needed for the rest of the Concert).

     

     

    hth

     

     

    CCT

  • by NickelJoba,

    NickelJoba NickelJoba Jun 2, 2014 11:52 AM in response to CCTM
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jun 2, 2014 11:52 AM in response to CCTM

    Hi,

     

    I'm having the same issues like Keys916 reported.

    There should really be a more efficient way to use multitimbral instruments like e.g. Omnisphere or UVI workstation inside Mainstage.

    To create seperate channel strips with each containing the multitimbral instrument for layering and splitting is really a hit on memory and ressources.

    Ok, you could split and layer inside the multitimbral instrument, but then you would lose the advantage of having different channels for mixing and fx.

     

    From my point of view to have on of the following options would help:

     

    1) Like already mentioned by CCTM: there should be an option to "paste as alias" within a patch. Then you could for example load 8 sounds inside Omnishere copy it eight times as alias but only use one instance instead of 8. Of course you would have to use the multi outputs of the AUi to route it to the different channels.

     

    2) There could be a sort of "MIDI channel strip" that can send MIDI data to the "mother channel strip" which contains the multitimbral instrument. The channels could e.g. route MIDI data from channel 1 of the keyboard controller to channels 1 to 16 feeding the multitimbral AUi. So instead of audio sends to busses it should be midi sends to instruments. It's the same principle which is used in most common DAWs.

     

    Any opinions on that?

    Perhaps we will see this in an future update of mainstage, fingers crossed... ;-)

     

    Best regards

  • by DrSchmenge,

    DrSchmenge DrSchmenge Jul 21, 2015 3:20 PM in response to Keys916
    Level 1 (33 points)
    Audio
    Jul 21, 2015 3:20 PM in response to Keys916

    I have a similar, if not identical question.

    For example, I would like to load Kontakt in an instrument channel strip at the Concert level, and have a trumpet section on channel 1, sax section on channel 2 and a trombone section on channel 3.  I'm only using one keyboard controller, and lets say it is transmitting on Channel 1.

     

    I'd like to have some kind of virtual midi patch bay in Mainstage at the Patch level that would let me route the single-channel midi output of that keyboard controller to one or more other channels. That way I could create patches with layers and/or splits that would play different combinations of those Kontakt voices from the same keyboard. The Channel Strip Layer Editor could show a different layer for each channel to which I have assigned an instrument in Kontakt (or Omnisphere or some other multitimbral plugin).  I'm pretty sure I'm describing the same thing that Keys916 is asking for in his/her original post.

     

    That way we could load a single rack of instrument channel strips at a Concert or Set level, and then at the Patch level we could choose how we want to map the keyboard controller(s) to the instruments/channels in our rack.

     

    I'm pretty sure that the Forte VST host for Windows allows you to do this... map incoming midi controller data to any number of different channels along with key range and transpose settings inside the host at the patch level.

     

    Maybe there is some way to do it in Mainstage, and I'm just missing it?

  • by griepje,

    griepje griepje Jun 18, 2016 11:05 AM in response to Keys916
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Audio
    Jun 18, 2016 11:05 AM in response to Keys916

    I found this workaround.

     

    First make sure your iac midi driver is on.  Its in audio/midi configuration on your mac.

     

    Now in your MainStage Layout create another keyboard with the iac driver as input.

    Set Your Kontakt instance to be played from this keyboard.

     

    Now on the keyboard you actually use you can make external instruments sending to different midi channels on the iac midibus.

     

    Now you will be able to make all your sound layer and octave settings.