pingpong9

Q: messed up computer (10.9.4) after migration to SSD - permissions or java problem?

thanks in advance for reading!  I have a doozy:  I moved my hdd to my optibay and installed a new SSD into my main hdd bay (mbp late 2011)

transferred data from hdd to ssd using superduper

so the ssd is now a clone of the old hdd (and in the same place as the old hdd) and the ssd is the startup

BUT

seems permissions are wonky?

not sure what it is.  possibly java is a problem -- maybe via permissions?

 

here's the symptoms:

browsers/finder work great (faster with ssd)

but MANY apps just wont load or are wonky.

bluestacks won't load-- wont even get to the "loading" animation...  (have re-installed numerous times)

metasearch on vuze won't work -- I see it for 7 seconds and then it vanishes.

other apps wont load -- the problem seems to be java related maybe?  I'm not clear.

 

steps I've taken to resolve:

(all did nothin)

re-installed every app that wasn't working (ug!  endless!  appcleaner etc!  hard to say how far they were uninstalled but seemed pretty thorough)

 

re-installed OSX 10.9.4

 

repaired permissions in a few ways on ssd

 

even "Reset Home Folder permissions and ACLs"  via rebooting with cmnd+r

 

downgraded to java 6 (did nothin) then back up to java 7 (nothin)

erased all the java caches etc I could find

 

now I'm not really sure WHAT is going on here -- but my suspicion is that there's something funny about the superduper migration and permissions  (everything was working when I upgraded to 10.9 a month ago)

I noticed: when I open a lot of folders, like utilities etc, they're read-only.  huh?  I don't think that was true, before.

to fix this I made the possible mistake of GetInfo/giving read-write privileges to everyone and "applied to enclosed items"

maybe that was dumb?

either way, after rebooting and repairing permissions, it seems the read-only structure of much of the new ssd is back

(I'm logged in as my main account as always -- is this not root? I'm never clear on root stuff...) (with mavericks, before the migration, I was able to run all these apps fine.  but none of these odd "read-only" icons were showing up in my folders)

so maybe bad permissions -- or bad java -- is the reason apps won't connect to the internet?  sometimes they crash when running animations.

 

ANY help would be so appreciated!  already wasted many full days on this!  ack! 

Posted on Jul 3, 2014 8:11 PM

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Q: messed up computer (10.9.4) after migration to SSD - permissions or java problem?

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  • by dianeoforegon,

    dianeoforegon dianeoforegon Jul 3, 2014 8:22 PM in response to pingpong9
    Level 5 (5,298 points)
    Jul 3, 2014 8:22 PM in response to pingpong9
  • by pingpong9,

    pingpong9 pingpong9 Jul 3, 2014 8:29 PM in response to dianeoforegon
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 3, 2014 8:29 PM in response to dianeoforegon

    amazing article.  TRULY intimidating   I may not be that computer savvy to get that right...

    but the input is appreciated.

    I think another reason this might not be the best setup for me is in the comments:

    >This how-to does not actually help you to create a true fusion drive. What you are actually doing is creating one volume group out of the SSD and the harddrive and presenting that to the OS as one or more logical volumes. This is a very different sort of beast than a fusion drive. With this setup, If the SSD is the first drive in the volume group, new files will be written to the SSD until it fills up and then files will be written to the harddrive. This explains why one commenter witnessed, using iostat, new files being written to the harddrive rather than the SSD and others said it started off fast and then got slower later on. If you don't want to buy a fusion drive, but do want fast boot times and fast loading of programs, I would suggest using these as two independent formatted drives. Install the OS and programs on the SSD and store the majority of your files on the harddrive.

     

    I think I'm happy with having the SSD handling the OS etc

    and my HDD doing media

    wud be nice, however if when I put stuff from the HDD into the trash it doesn’t ask to delete immediately the way it would if I was on a wifi network with another volume (what IS that about...?)  these volumes are connected so directly, why cant I throw something in the .trash from the optibay-HDD and let it sit there till I'm sure to erase it?  :/

  • by dianeoforegon,

    dianeoforegon dianeoforegon Jul 3, 2014 8:43 PM in response to pingpong9
    Level 5 (5,298 points)
    Jul 3, 2014 8:43 PM in response to pingpong9

    Dave Nanian, author of SuperDuper might be able to offer some help. It's worth asking on his forum.

     

    http://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/

     

    This link shows topics with fusion in title: http://www.shirt-pocket.com/forums/search.php?searchid=1427822

  • by pingpong9,

    pingpong9 pingpong9 Jul 4, 2014 1:37 AM in response to dianeoforegon
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 4, 2014 1:37 AM in response to dianeoforegon

    having posting problems on shirtpocket... will try again later

     

    meanwhile, to be clear:    folders that are read-only:

    (tho the folders enclosed therein may not be) :

    .................ssd main volume folder

    users   system  library  utilities

    applications and documents/movies/etc seem to be read/write ... which is what I'd expect.

     

    could this relate to my applications aborting and not connecting?  I'm clueless.  just a guess - cuz again: most of my problems seem to be related to things that animate or connect to the internet (so maybe java?)

  • by dianeoforegon,

    dianeoforegon dianeoforegon Jul 4, 2014 10:39 AM in response to pingpong9
    Level 5 (5,298 points)
    Jul 4, 2014 10:39 AM in response to pingpong9

    You need to address the permissions issue first. I know there are some terminal commands you can use to reset, but I hesitate to suggest since I'm not an expert. You can really mess up things with permissions.

     

    Linc Davis is the expert on this.

     

    Another option is to backup all data to an external drive. Wipe your internal drives then reinstall OS X. Once you know files are working correctly THEN bring back your data. I'm not sure I would use Migration because of your dual drive setup.

  • by dianeoforegon,

    dianeoforegon dianeoforegon Jul 4, 2014 10:55 AM in response to pingpong9
    Level 5 (5,298 points)
    Jul 4, 2014 10:55 AM in response to pingpong9

    re: Shirt Pocket forum: I see that hurricane Arthur has power down in Dave's area. Dave posted on twitter that support and email working but web site will not be backup until power returns.

  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Jul 4, 2014 11:04 AM in response to pingpong9
    Level 7 (23,613 points)
    Safari
    Jul 4, 2014 11:04 AM in response to pingpong9

    Since your HDD is a clone of the SSD, it should be bootable, and if you can boot from it, do the applications that do not work from SSD work properly when run from the HDD?

     

    Instead of SuperDuper, a Time Machine Backup/restore would have been a bit cleaner, correct?

  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Jul 4, 2014 12:13 PM in response to pingpong9
    Level 7 (23,613 points)
    Safari
    Jul 4, 2014 12:13 PM in response to pingpong9

    pingpong9 wrote:

     

    I think another reason this might not be the best setup for me is in the comments:

    >This how-to does not actually help you to create a true fusion drive. What you are actually doing is creating one volume group out of the SSD and the harddrive and presenting that to the OS as one or more logical volumes. This is a very different sort of beast than a fusion drive. With this setup, If the SSD is the first drive in the volume group, new files will be written to the SSD until it fills up and then files will be written to the harddrive. This explains why one commenter witnessed, using iostat, new files being written to the harddrive rather than the SSD and others said it started off fast and then got slower later on. If you don't want to buy a fusion drive, but do want fast boot times and fast loading of programs, I would suggest using these as two independent formatted drives. Install the OS and programs on the SSD and store the majority of your files on the harddrive.

     

    I think I'm happy with having the SSD handling the OS etc

    and my HDD doing media

    wud be nice, however if when I put stuff from the HDD into the trash it doesn’t ask to delete immediately the way it would if I was on a wifi network with another volume (what IS that about...?)  these volumes are connected so directly, why cant I throw something in the .trash from the optibay-HDD and let it sit there till I'm sure to erase it?  :/

     

    This is a Fusion Drive by definition. A Fusion drive is also a Logical Volume and a CoreStorage volume. ( Please see this as well - http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1530110 ). If you run the same commands on an Apple-provided "Fusion" drive, you will see similar output.

     

    diskutil list

    /dev/disk0

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *256.1 GB   disk0

       1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk0s1

       2:          Apple_CoreStorage                         255.7 GB   disk0s2

       3:                 Apple_Boot Boot OS X               134.2 MB   disk0s3

    /dev/disk1

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:      GUID_partition_scheme                        *1.0 TB     disk1

       1:                        EFI EFI                     209.7 MB   disk1s1

       2:          Apple_CoreStorage                         934.5 GB   disk1s2

       3:                 Apple_Boot Boot OS X               650.0 MB   disk1s3

       4:       Microsoft Basic Data BOOTCAMP                64.9 GB    disk1s4

    /dev/disk2

       #:                       TYPE NAME                    SIZE       IDENTIFIER

       0:                  Apple_HFS Fusion HD              *1.2 TB     disk2

     

    diskutil cs list

    CoreStorage logical volume groups (1 found)

    |

    +-- Logical Volume Group A8C00490-0E14-401F-AB69-59F37724E8C4

        =========================================================

        Name:         Fusion

        Status:       Online

        Size:         1190201270272 B (1.2 TB)

        Free Space:   0 B (0 B)

        |

        +-< Physical Volume 4772013B-5520-4801-9BE5-BCAEF4AEDAB3

        |   ----------------------------------------------------

        |   Index:    0

        |   Disk:     disk0s2

        |   Status:   Online

        |   Size:     255716540416 B (255.7 GB)

        |

        +-< Physical Volume A679A101-3C78-4A59-B5EE-A4339210CFAD

        |   ----------------------------------------------------

        |   Index:    1

        |   Disk:     disk1s2

        |   Status:   Online

        |   Size:     934484729856 B (934.5 GB)

        |

        +-> Logical Volume Family 5EF5C7CA-0B9C-4169-82A1-41C84F206672

            ----------------------------------------------------------

            Encryption Status:       Unlocked

            Encryption Type:         None

            Conversion Status:       NoConversion

            Conversion Direction:    -none-

            Has Encrypted Extents:   No

            Fully Secure:            No

            Passphrase Required:     No

            |

            +-> Logical Volume 1512657C-ED13-4B31-82C6-7AECBBCA7F98

                ---------------------------------------------------

                Disk:                  disk2

                Status:                Online

                Size (Total):          1185508581376 B (1.2 TB)

                Conversion Progress:   -none-

                Revertible:            No

                LV Name:               Fusion HD

                Volume Name:           Fusion HD

                Content Hint:          Apple_HFS

  • by dianeoforegon,

    dianeoforegon dianeoforegon Jul 4, 2014 1:00 PM in response to Loner T
    Level 5 (5,298 points)
    Jul 4, 2014 1:00 PM in response to Loner T

    This is a Fusion Drive by definition. A Fusion drive is also a Logical Volume and a CoreStorage volume. ( Please see this as well - http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=1530110 ). If you run the same commands on an Apple-provided "Fusion" drive, you will see similar output.

     

    Excellent article. Thanks for sharing.

  • by pingpong9,

    pingpong9 pingpong9 Jul 4, 2014 1:29 PM in response to Loner T
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 4, 2014 1:29 PM in response to Loner T

    thank you all for your replies!!

     

    Loner T:

     

    >Since your HDD is a clone of the SSD, it should be bootable,

     

    sadly, it's not.  the HDD won't boot form the optibay -- this is a known issue.  (I actually had to go through a whole rigamarole to "downclock" the hdd's speed so it would work in the optibay (mbp2011s are fussy this way))

     

    however: I CAN load an app from the HDD (in the optibay/ using the SSD in main bay as startup disk) -- and interestingly, apps laded from there have all the same problems.  even tho this is the original data (tho maybe by moving the drive to the optibay, something messed up with permissions or something?  clueless.)

  • by pingpong9,

    pingpong9 pingpong9 Jul 4, 2014 1:32 PM in response to dianeoforegon
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 4, 2014 1:32 PM in response to dianeoforegon

    >You can really mess up things with permissions.     Linc Davis is the expert on this.

     

    - Yes I've seen his posts on other topics.       notably:

    Reset Home Folder permissions and ACLs Error

     

    wondering how to ask Linc to weigh in on my issue...  seems similar?

  • by dianeoforegon,

    dianeoforegon dianeoforegon Jul 4, 2014 1:39 PM in response to pingpong9
    Level 5 (5,298 points)
    Jul 4, 2014 1:39 PM in response to pingpong9

    Not sure if this will work, but I'll try posting Linc's profile link and see if the forum sends a followup email.

     

    https://discussions.apple.com/people/Linc%20Davis

  • by Loner T,

    Loner T Loner T Jul 4, 2014 1:55 PM in response to pingpong9
    Level 7 (23,613 points)
    Safari
    Jul 4, 2014 1:55 PM in response to pingpong9

    Can you restore a TM backup to the SSD (which should leave your HDD intact and untouched) and run disk utility verify permissions and see if it addresses your applications. If the problem exists on the original HDD, the cloning process will duplicate the same thing to the SSD.

  • by pingpong9,

    pingpong9 pingpong9 Jul 4, 2014 2:04 PM in response to Loner T
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 4, 2014 2:04 PM in response to Loner T

    Hey loner.  What you're describing is what I did initially.  (Except using superduper not timemachine.)

    I copied the HDD to the SSD and ran permissions.  This is (necessarily) after both disks were moved -- the HDD to the optical bay and the new SSD to the original HDD slot.  The applications -- now running either from the HDD or the SSD -- now have problems.

    However, when the HDD was running on its own, in the original HDD bay, all was ok.     ...........thanks again for your thots!

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