Schionatulander

Q: Improving an ancient iBook to read modern e-mail

I'm looking to make an iBook G4 sufficiently usable for sending/receiving e-mail through a web browser. It's apparently early 2004 release with a 1.07 GHz Power PC processor, 512 MB RAM and it currently has OS 10.3.9 installed. I don't know what exactly is developing so quickly in web browsers so that people are able to view e-mail but not send any; all buttons are greyed out with various providers. So, does anyone know either:

 

a) a browser for this OS that could do the trick? (I've tried Safari 1.3, Firefox 2.0.0.20, and iCab 4.9.)

 

OR

 

b) whether upgrading to OS 10.4 or 10.5 would provide sufficient browser compatibility? If so, would one be preferable over the other? I'm assuming 10.5 would be slower in general with the limited resources, but if it provides more compatibility than 10.4, I'd go for it.

 

Any other suggestions or tips would be appreciated. Thanks!

Posted on Sep 1, 2014 8:44 AM

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Q: Improving an ancient iBook to read modern e-mail

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  • by a brody,Helpful

    a brody a brody Sep 2, 2014 9:48 AM in response to Schionatulander
    Level 9 (66,781 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Sep 2, 2014 9:48 AM in response to Schionatulander

    Most e-mail based services use POP3 or IMAP.  Mac OS X Mail in 10.3.9 supports both.    Some of the higher end attachments that use Adobe Flash may not be readable no matter what browser you use.  There are these tricks to adding Flash and Java to 10.3.9, 10.4.11, and 10.5.8, but none will be as current as present.  Start with this tip, and decide if it is worthwhile to upgrade to 10.4, or 10.5 based on cost. 

     

    10.3 & earlier and Java

     

    Note, the more bells and whistles, the more likely you will try to be loading some non-text attempt to attack your Mac.  Most would be fruitless since iBooks can't run .exe files.

  • by Schionatulander,

    Schionatulander Schionatulander Sep 4, 2014 8:00 AM in response to a brody
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Sep 4, 2014 8:00 AM in response to a brody

    a brody, thanks for the reply. Correct me if I understand incorrectly, but I think you are talking purely about normal e-mail services where you download your e-mail to your computer. The problem, however, is with e-mail accessed through a web browser. Users can view their e-mail but cannot send any e-mail with Firefox, for example. When they click reply, they get a reply screen without a body, and all buttons are greyed out. Choosing plain-text doesn't help. With other browsers, they cannot even log in to their e-mail account. The login screen just keeps reappearing. This wouldn't be because of Java, I think? JavaScript?

  • by a brody,

    a brody a brody Sep 4, 2014 9:16 AM in response to Schionatulander
    Level 9 (66,781 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Sep 4, 2014 9:16 AM in response to Schionatulander

    Webmail is a function of the webmaster's choice of standards.   http://www.mail2web.com/ offers inbox only webmail services that is pretty platform independent.   Others may or may not.

     

    A smart webmaster would use all server side coding to generate pure HTML, and follow the guidelines on http://www.anybrowser.org/

    to ensure consistent representation across all web browsers no matter what versions.  

     

    Javascript is more server side than Java.  Java assumes a certain version of Java is installed.

     

    Flash is the same problem, and is client side.

     

    Silverlight is client side.   For Netflix only Intel Macs will work with a certain version of Silverlight or higher installed.

     

    Internet Explorer confounded matters by making its own version of Javascript called JScript.   And to add to complications, ActiveX is often mixed with Java on Windows only versions of their web browser.   To make matters worse, Internet Explorer for the Mac was abandoned at version 5.2.3.  For 2006 and later Macs with an Intel CPU, running Windows on a Mac becomes much easier to handle animated and audio code better in Windows.  Before then mainly images and text were the only thing supported on Windows on the Mac:

     

    Running Windows on a Mac, and Connecting it to Mac

     

    Windows XP was limited to Internet Explorer 7.

    Windows 7 adds Internet Explorer 8, which adds a more common HTML standard first adopted by Firefox and Safari, namely HTML5.

     

    So back to the only question, if you are using POP or IMAP, the only reason you would want to use webmail is for integrated webpage support of e-mail, and that's if the webpage in the e-mail supports that browser.  If it doesn't that's a moot point.   Some Exchange services have been supported by Mac OS X Mail, and Entourage from Microsoft (part of Microsoft Office for the Mac), if they are properly configured, others required either Internet Explorer webmail or a VPN into the Windows machine for support such as Citrix.   Citrix is often Java based. 

     

    You can simplify matters by ensuring your e-mail server supports POP3 or IMAP, and save webpages to an actual web server that others can access and just provide a link they can copy paste into a web browser for formatted text and images.  That way no matter what e-mail client they use they can still reach their e-mail.  Otherwise you have to look at all the other factors above.

  • by a brody,

    a brody a brody Sep 4, 2014 9:31 AM in response to Schionatulander
    Level 9 (66,781 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Sep 4, 2014 9:31 AM in response to Schionatulander

    Four other factors which may make login screens reappear are enabling cookies, limiting cookies to specific websites, SSL certificates, and setting up proxy based webserver preferences to access only specific websites.  The last of which is something many cable internet providers at the beginning used to optimize their internet service.  SSL certificates may be limited by older browsers to 32 bit versions.   Apple offered 64 bit on G5 processors through a vector processing function called Altivec.   CoreDuo and CoreSolo Macs only had 32 bit processors.   Core2Duo and higher Macs and Xeon all have 64 bit processors.  Mac OS X 10.7 is also limited to those 64 bit Macs.    If you depend on SSL certificates for security that may be a problem unless you use an older but still capable one on the older Macs.   Certificates may be 128 bit on older Macs, but only with certain web browsers.  The processor I don't believe is a factor, but it is important to note what a web browser is capable of. You'll need research that further if that's an issue.

  • by K Shaffer,Solvedanswer

    K Shaffer K Shaffer Sep 4, 2014 11:11 AM in response to Schionatulander
    Level 6 (14,244 points)
    Desktops
    Sep 4, 2014 11:11 AM in response to Schionatulander

    So, if you are using a web based email account where you login via browser,

    these issues you state are blocking your access to use the email account(s)?

     

    Since my primary email (only email) is spread between two gmail accounts,

    there has been no issue with them; however on their side certain technologies
    have been improved, or changed when  not improved, that can affect use with

    older computer OS versions.

     

    Because there basically are no modern browsers or upgraded flash/java parts

    that work, or would be considered safe, for older OS X versions, if you were

    to upgrade OS X to Tiger 10.4 from DVD, and fully to 10.4.11 via Combo D/L

    file from Apple software update server, at least you could use a later version

    of system and also TenFourFox web browser. Most recent 10fourFx do not

    use Flash, and by default is so more secure than other browsers; also the

    most recent TenFourFox uses later code from Mozilla as best it can.

     

    There are older versions of SeaMonkey for PPC, most have been superseded

    by later versions and the last series works in OS X 10.5.8 only. Most other

    recent SeaMonkey is a different project for Intel-based Mac, not PPC Mac.

     

    You may be able to see about getting a Replacement DVD installer for Tiger

    OSX 10.4, from Apple; this is an almost invisible possibility and they may or

    may not readily believe if they even have it, still, or not. Depending on who

    you talk to and where you are located (in US, there is a slim possibility) you

    may be able to call Apple Sales or support, ask for an operating systems

    specialist, and request if possible to order a replacement DVD for Tiger 10.4;

    this would be a white label (not for retail sale) complete installer on DVD.

    Usually they'd try to match the product, if available, with your Mac serial number.

    And there would be a fee for this product, should they find they have it still.

     

    An upgrade to at least 10.4.11 and later browsers should be able to fix this issue

    for a time; at least until the next round of internet upgrades changes the content

    of the web sites online, and forces some other hardware/software configurations

    into the obsolete area even further. Depending on the Mac you have, it may need

    more RAM for a later OS X to run better, and also the need for more hard drive

    free space could occur, as Virtual Memory considerations add up. To upgrade an

    OS X often requires the computer to also see some upgrade in hardware.

     

    The issue with obsolete and unsupported older Adobe Flash player and any

    version of java, can be narrowed by not accepting third party cookies, only

    ones from the pages you visit, not saving any when you are done browsing;

    and log back into any accounts and log out, each session. Do not keep the

    passwords in the computer; avoid saving delicate information where it may

    be exposed to the internet and use safe browsing practices always. Avoid

    visiting sites or accepting any offered popup 'free download' software, etc.

     

    Your computer may not be able to run Leopard 10.5.8, depending on the Mac

    & its processor speed, bus speed, total RAM installed, actual free HDD space.

    The configuration of system and hardware tend to be the limits over time.

     

    Though my older Macs that are still operational have 10.5.8 installed, they did

    well with Tiger 10.4.11 as a totally new installation on wiped (zeroed) hard drive

    so there were no updated older 10.3.9 parts. Early Tiger steps had issues, but

    the last Combo update 10.4.11 is a good solid base, up from the DVD installer.

    There still are some additional software update downloads for that from Apple

    but they are all vintage and unsupported. If your Mac has a CPU of 867MHz

    or higher, it could run Leopard 10.5.8. Ask Apple, as previously mentioned, to

    see if someone there can find a white label 'replacement DVD for...' this, too.

     

    For web-based email, you don't need much more than a fair browser and to

    avoid using the computer to visit compromised content. A second user account

    where you aren't in the main Admin one, may also be helpful to troubleshoot an

    issue should the daily user account of less stature be in question. You can also

    delete or replace a lesser account, and replace it, while keeping Admin separate.

     

    Good luck & happy computing!

  • by Schionatulander,

    Schionatulander Schionatulander Oct 8, 2014 7:05 AM in response to K Shaffer
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 8, 2014 7:05 AM in response to K Shaffer

    Thanks to both you guys for the great ideas and all the background information. In the end, I was able to upgrade (clean install) to OS 10.4 and install TenFourFox, and the first two people who've tested it have no problems sending e-mail or attachments from that browser.

  • by K Shaffer,

    K Shaffer K Shaffer Oct 8, 2014 1:33 PM in response to Schionatulander
    Level 6 (14,244 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 8, 2014 1:33 PM in response to Schionatulander

    Glad to hear some successes were obtained by use of Tiger 10.4 and presume the

    installation went well, from the DVD then via Combo upgrade, and other bits as found

    by Software Update to the OS X. Then the last version Security Update file, & etc.

     

    For some of my older Macs (PPC G4) that are still around, and a few with hardware

    induced coma, I still have completely bootable full system clones on external FW HDs.

     

    Since Tiger could also run, via special edition, on the first Intel-based Mac, they also

    appreciated the final versions of Combo and combined Security update finals. But I

    found the PowerPC versions of Tiger more stable in their era when given final parts

    in an all new installation than almost any other Mac OS or Mac OS X ever.

     

    {The version of iCab for use with 32-bit processors (not latest) is a good one, too.}

     

    But then, I am still partial to a few older machines I used to have, from before OS X...

  • by Schionatulander,

    Schionatulander Schionatulander Oct 9, 2014 12:23 AM in response to K Shaffer
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 9, 2014 12:23 AM in response to K Shaffer

    Yes, the installation went well. After installing from the DVD, I kept checking for and installing updates until no more came. Only then did I start installing software (and checking for updates for that). The version of iCab I tried with 10.3 didn't work as hoped, but maybe there's a later version for 10.4 that'll work.

     

    Apart from licensing questions, can you actually use the bootable full system clones in external HDs? And on older or newer machines? Or are they purely good for restoring?

     

    Talk about being partial to old computers… we still have two with System 7 and 9 that get used for historical purposes ( = reading old files / old media ) or because of the great software that's on them. And there's an even older one in the closet. It's too bad that Apple no longer provides minimal standard support for the OS that provides the best link between the older eras and the present (read: it's too bad it's nigh impossible to obtain from Apple itself). Though it's nice that they made System 7 and other older software available for free.

  • by K Shaffer,

    K Shaffer K Shaffer Oct 9, 2014 1:22 AM in response to Schionatulander
    Level 6 (14,244 points)
    Desktops
    Oct 9, 2014 1:22 AM in response to Schionatulander

    There is a non-universal binary iCab 3.0.5 for PowerPC in the download page

    the item is a .sit file, unlike the other UB that is .zip compressed file...

     

    You can use the clone and when or if any software updates need to be done

    they can be applied directly to the running full system clone on external HDD

    or a second internal one. FireWire is best for most older computers as the

    transfer speed rate is better than USB 2.0 for data; more consistant than

    USB3.0, and with an adapter cable, FireWire to Thunderbolt is possible in

    the newer hardware devices that run later OS X.

     

    A clone is a working copy. A good way to make redundency, over more than

    a few drives without using RAID. Like that spare work-copy DVD of boot OS

    installer, I'd use and carry while traveling -- instead of the original factory one.

     

    There are a few items I still have in a box of software, plus a PM 7300.

    It worked when last booted, but I wouldn't bet on it unless the 3.6v cell

    were replaced. Stored in a cool building and not plugged in, does things.

     

    Anyway, I have to go... time is near 12:30AM here.