Q: Family Sharing when having different accounts for purchasing and iCloud

Smoke,  Thanks for clarifying.  Too bad Apple couldn't have made this more clear.  Now, I hope I can get my account "unlocked".  Otherwise by the time I can join Family Sharing, iOS9 will be out!

The situation where you share one iTunes account for purchases between devices but each device has its own unique iCloud account for sharing contacts, calendars, etc. seems to be allowed with Family Sharing as you can specify which iTunes account to use for purchases BUT it doesn't appear to me to be the same situation as before in a subtle way.

In fact, it appears to me that all Apple has done here is separate which Apple ID has "ownership" of a purchase from the Apple ID that actually "purchased" the content.  Prior to Family Sharing the Apple ID that purchased the content "owned" the content.

So the Family Sharing solution has a place but it is subtly different from the old setup where you shared an iTunes purchase Apple ID between devices.  In fact, this new Family Sharing feature (if I understand it correctly) is NOT what most users that were sharing iTunes IDs really desire because now the "ownership" of the content will be spread over multiple iCloud IDs even though they were "purchased" with the same shared iTunes ID.  I think most people that were sharing iTunes purchase IDs want the purchase AND ownership to belong to the same Apple ID and just "share" the purchases with other family members.

The way it seems to work though is now each family member with "own" whatever they purchase even though only one shared Apple ID will pay for the content.  This will spread your purchases across all your families Apple IDs going forward!

Under Family Sharing you end up owning content even though you didn't purchase it and the organizer that purchases the content does not own it!  Granted, this will only start to become a potential issue once you disconnect from your Family Sharing group but is something to be fully aware of when you go into Family Sharing (if I am correct in how this works).

Read this paragraph carefully from the following link and see if I am interpreting this correctly on what happens when you disable Family Sharing:  I have not tested this so could be wrong and it will not be easy to test because of the risk of getting locked out for a year after more than 2 join attempts.  Yikes!

http://support.apple.com/kb/ht201079

Under Making Purchases:

"Once paid for, a purchased item is added to the account of the family

member who initiated the purchase. In other words, the content belongs

to them, much as it would if you were buying them a book or a DVD. If

Family Sharing is ever disabled, each member will keep the purchases

they initiated, even though they were paid for by the family organizer."

That sounds like it should work but that is not the case unless you want to lose the use of the other features of yours and your wives iCloud accounts.  Then you both will be seeing everything that the other does in all the iCloud supported apps.  Not a good look.....

I guess the reason for that is to stop people trying to do the purchases amongst friends, under current situation you can only share your ID on 5 devices, so a huaband and wife and two children are limited to 4 phones and one ipad.

This family sharing means each member of the family can use 5 devices each (However unlikely)

smokefortyaday wrote:

 

I guess the reason for that is to stop people trying to do the purchases amongst friends, under current situation you can only share your ID on 5 devices, so a huaband and wife and two children are limited to 4 phones and one ipad.

 

This family sharing means each member of the family can use 5 devices each (However unlikely)

The 5 device limit is for computers not iOS dcevices.

How utterly confusing Apple make things for us.

Why on earth would Family Sharing be grouped under iCloud settings rather than iTunes Store/AppStore Settings - you are sharing your iTunes purchases not your iCloud e-mail etc.

Admittedly for many people they will be the same, but they have clearly thought of this issue as you can select the account to use - why did they not put Family Sharing in the iTunes Settings section?

Same goes for Home Sharing - this is hidden away at the bottom of Music settings!

Yeah, it would seem a better fit under the iTunes Store section, especially for those of us that have different IDs for iCloud and iTunes but I suspect we are a minority and most users use the same ID for iCloud and iTunes.  That is the Apple default setup if you go with the flow during the initial setup of your device.

Here is more information that implies Apple expects the iCloud ID to be the "master" ID and you select an iTunes Store ID to go with it.  You can only change the iTunes ID once every 90 days though.

Sharing purchased content with Family Sharing:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT201085

What is not clear to me though is which ID is used for purchases made by family members?  The family member's iCloud ID or the iTunes ID they selected when they joined the Family Share?

If it is the iTunes ID then I may be ok if each family members can select the SAME iTunes ID when they join the Family Share.  That way no matter which family member purchases something everything will still be attached to the same iTunes ID and not be spread over several iCloud IDs.  Can someone confirm this will work?

Even so this Family Sharing business apparently is different in some way behind the scenes.  See this article about having to re-encode some old iTunes media to make it compatible with Family Sharing use:

http://www.tuaw.com/2014/09/19/apple-has-a-war-room-to-monitor-ios-8-problems-as -they-emerge/

jessefromwaikoloa wrote:

 

Yeah, it would seem a better fit under the iTunes Store section, especially for those of us that have different IDs for iCloud and iTunes but I suspect we are a minority and most users use the same ID for iCloud and iTunes.  That is the Apple default setup if you go with the flow during the initial setup of your device.

 

Here is more information that implies Apple expects the iCloud ID to be the "master" ID and you select an iTunes Store ID to go with it.  You can only change the iTunes ID once every 90 days though.

 

Sharing purchased content with Family Sharing:

http://support.apple.com/kb/HT201085

 

…...

 

Even so this Family Sharing business apparently is different in some way behind the scenes.  See this article about having to re-encode some old iTunes media to make it compatible with Family Sharing use:

http://www.tuaw.com/2014/09/19/apple-has-a-war-room-to-monitor-ios-8-problems-as -they-emerge/

Thanks for those links.

What is not clear to me though is which ID is used for purchases made by family members?  The family member's iCloud ID or the iTunes ID they selected when they joined the Family Share?

 

If it is the iTunes ID then I may be ok if each family members can select the SAME iTunes ID when they join the Family Share.  That way no matter which family member purchases something everything will still be attached to the same iTunes ID and not be spread over several iCloud IDs.  Can someone confirm this will work?

My concern too - if purchases are made with my credit card they should get linked to my ID but having said that as children get older they might buy things they'd want linked to their own AppleID in future not to mine.

My recollection was that I could dowload content purchased with my own Store AppIeD to any number of iOS devices and 5 computers.  I believe Mac AppStore purchases are not subject to the 5 computer limit either.

In the first link above we see this, and I wonder if by joining Family Sharing it makes things more stringent than they were:

Learn more

* Not all content and content types are available in all countries. All family members must use the same iTunes Store country or region. Music, movies, TV shows, and books can be downloaded on up to 10 devices per account, five of which can be computers. Apps can be downloaded to any devices the family member owns or controls.

Is that per family sharing member account or 10 instances in total?

I am pretty sure 10 devices was the limit before so I don't think that part has changed.  But note the subtle difference between how apps and other types of content are handled.  Apps don't seem to have a device limit but other media types do.  And 10 devices is starting to feel a little cramped even for a small family.

I Stand corrected on the purchases.

think I understand the mechanism more now after reading that article linked above:

Share your purchases

When you join a family, you'll be asked to confirm the Apple ID that you regularly use for making iTunes, iBooks, and App Store purchases. Purchases from this account will be shared with your family members.

On your iOS device, follow these steps to confirm the Apple ID you will use to share purchases:

1. Go to Settings > iCloud > Family, then tap your name.
2. Under Share Purchases, review your account information.
3. If you haven't confirmed this Apple ID yet, enter your password to confirm it. If you prefer to share purchases from a different account, you can enter a different Apple ID and password.

As I read that it indicates that any member of the family will use their iTunes is for purchasing as normal and that all their pre acquired content will be available to me too.

I am not sure how it will handle new family members who haven't got a itunes store account (I wouldn't want my children having my password for my iTunes on their device, I thought that I could allow them to buy using my account but that I could set them a limit (like MS Family Gold used to work).

we will see when I set up the other devices in this house into ios8.

JavaGeek, thanks for the clarity that Apple will not let you share the same purchase account as the organizer when someone joins your Family Sharing group.  That is what I wanted to do (share purchasing IDs) since it is just my spouse and I.  Not sure why Apple is blocking that option but certainly if you had kids you would probably not want to share the same purchase iDs with them.

It seems confusing that Apple would leave your old purchase ID on the kid's phone after joining Family Sharing though.  I wonder what would have happened if you didn't log out of your kids iTunes account that was left after your joined Family Sharing and manually set it to the kid's iCloud ID?

It sounds like Family Sharing is a good thing for families that have purchases spread over several Apple IDs as it gives everyone access to everyone else's purchases.  And as you said you don't really want to see your kid's gaming apps that you might never use.

But for those that have manually kept separate iCloud and iTunes purchase account separate and shared the same iTunes purchase account across all their devices then Family Sharing will actually start spreading purchases across multiple IDs now instead of keeping everything neatly in one account.  That is why I wanted to be able to share the same iTunes account for all family members.

So in my case I will probably stick with my current setup and forgo the shared calendar, photos and location features in order to keep all our purchases under one Apple ID.

jessefromwaikoaloa,

i agree with you that it seems that I will just stay with my setup where all my devices use my iTunes Apple ID for purchases and have an iCloud account setup for find my iPhone which they can not use anyway.  My issue was allowing them to ask to purchase items and all I had to do was accept or deny it from my iPhone with out havone to download it first so they have access to it.  The rest of the features really do not matter to me as they can share what they want via text messages anyway.  Plus my way I can turn on the photo stream so all their photos go to that account so they can delete the ones they don't want on there phones but there accessed via their macs. 

Family sharing done right:

iTunes purchases from one Apple ID account

approved or denied by  account own via their device

shared photo stream if wanted or picked after taken

find my device with administrative controls by own

share location per device settings

Setup purchase limits per device via account owner/administrator

calendars can can be shared from administrator

Just some ideas on how i see this service working.  Great try but no need to create all new iCloud accounts for just these features because they still have to be setup by an administrator if it is to work the way you want it.

HI good folks of internet. Id like to ask for some help and share my ideas.

in general, idea for FS is great, execution fails though.

my wife and I share CONTACTS which has been tremendously useful. i also used my main apple Id on my and her iphones for find my iPhone service (didn't want several accounts for all of our devices). As to contacts, I used main ID on my iPhone with all services on, and also as iCloud main id on her iphone but only for contacts AND BACKUP. Of course, I  had biggest storage plan to accommodate few device backups. We are a family of 4 kids 2 parents. Sometime in future I see us having about 12 mobile devices (ipad and iphones). You can see my problem now.

It seems I'm punished a bit (I will feedback apple with birth certificates just for fun though).

With new family sharing I can see. Family through find my friends, which is cool. I can't see find my iPhone through it though, which in case of loosing/theft is bothersome - I'll need to log to specific  account owning it. That, I can live with.

My main issue is that presently, I don't see how can I backup all devices to one iCloud (that automatic nightly backup was fantastic and saved the day several times already). Contacts sharing not being in family capability to share with of course administrative ability for main account is also stupid  but I can set it as additional account of iCloud used only for contacts on her iphone so I can live with that too.

But,

I want the purchases overseen for whole family, not only kids - and that is not even an option!!! Only for underage Kids?

Also, purchases should be approved to go to main account if main account wants that and not to go to family member account.

I wonder if family members can download previous main account's purchases as well as how will the updates work for those...

EDIT: Please, get your objections to apple icloud feedback in order to fix it.

https://www.apple.com/feedback/icloud.html