Slip Jigs

Q: Some help please navigating these forums and a little discussion as well?

There are a few questions I’d like to post, but first I need to determine how to use this newer style of user-to-user forum. Yeah, it’s been around a few years or so, but I’ve seen it take over the more traditional message board systems like v-bulletin and phpBB. Those boards were easy to navigate, as the forums, categories and topics were presented in a typical directory tree structure (even though the built-in search functions leaved a lot to be desired).


Now the trend has shifted to formats such as this. While some retain some semblance of categories and topics (discussions), others seem to abandon this altogether in favor posts or discussions being related via tags or keywords. Google is the worst offender – forcing the user to select up to 4 pre-defined descriptors when creating a new post.

Also confusing is how the terminology has changed. The forums are now calling topics, discussions. But they end up containing even less actual discussion on the topic and have de-volved into simple questions and answered. This is reinforced by the use of buttons to compel the original poster to designate responses as helpful or correct answers. This I would guess is in response to the myriad of answer seekers posting questions, receiving several helpful replies and never going back to say thanks, thus, the threads become all but useless for others who experience and seek out solutions to similar issues.

The new format also usually starts out with “ask your question here” which is just another way to say, “hey, how about at least giving the search a try before asking a question that’s been covered before”.  Because many self-contained search features just don’t work, I can see why users just skip over it. But, what they may not know is that you can use Google to search a specific site. Forum, or blog which usually works pretty well. I’ve done this on a number of occasions, only to find the response as “this question has been answered here a hundred times – try searching”. If the responder is feeling generous that day, he or she may also present a link – a google search link that includes keywords.

So, here I do see the initial ask your question box, then underneath that, a bunch of icons that represent particular products/topics. I start searches using more keywords, the reduce them If there are too many results. This gradual decline works well for Google, but here at Apple Support, I went from over 700 results to just two by eliminating all but the two mandatory keywords. I will do some more searches and post in the appropriate section, but my gut reaction is that it would be hard to believe that I’m the only person who has ever had this question.


So, then – what’s the best and right way to use this new forum?


^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


A BRIEF HISTORY OF ONLINE MESSAGE BOARDS

I’m turning the double-nickel this year, so I’ve earned the right to gripe a bit. I don’t know everything, but for those of you youngsters, do yourself a favor a read up. If you truly are a techno-phile, you’ll find it at least somewhat interesting, at least enough to do a little research. Plus, this information isn’t all that old.

The first online community I was exposed to was the BBS – Bulletin Board System. I had just bought my first PC, a Tandy, and the sales guy sold me a modem and gave me a number to call to connect to his BBS. I installed the modem, dialed the number and for the first time heard the annoyingly beautiful sounds of modems connecting. The, almost like “Do you want to play a game?”, text appeared on my monitor and I was hooked. The BBSes were local – to avoid long distance calls – and operated by those who could afford a second, dedicated computer and phone line. Usually, only one person could connect at a time – browse the discussion topics, leave a post to add to the discussion, check private messages (email) then log off.

News Groups were the next form on online interaction I was introduced to. These required a special server running a dedicated protocol and a new reader, usually integrated in with an email client like Outlook Express. Each group was a specific topic – for example, Microsoft groups may have had a couple dozen or so groups covering topics like Windows 95 or networking, other commercially sponsored groups, or self-created groups. Like a BBS, you would log on, catch up on unread messages, respond to some and move on. It was in the News Groups where I learned how to program web pages to connect to a hosted database and many other things, thanks to the expertise and kindness of strangers. These groups soon became the territory of spammers, not to mention the real ugly recesses of the internet – international folks sharing “content” that the work obscene can’t even begin to describe. ISP’s soon dropped news groups from their services and they went away.


By this time however, the world-wide-web was now in full swing. We no longer needed AOL or Prodigy to get on the Net, just an ISP and browser. Broadband was becoming available in select markets. Web-based bulletin boards sprang up all over, filling the void that the news groups left behind. They evolved, but kept to the simple structure and format for a good long while. As the cost of web hosting came down, and the availability of online databases went up, and open source application became better and more robust, anyone could incorporate a forum into their site with little time or expense.

Social Media was on the rise. Sites came and went. From Friendster, to Myspace, then finally facebook, Twitter and LinkedIn. The net also settled in to a short list of other content sharing sites – YouTube, Flickr, Instagram. These took over the social discussion aspects of the online forum sites. That left the forums to take the only remaining role of software and product support – both as an extension of a company’s support solution or user-to-user help and support.

On more than one occasion, I’ve tried to engage other users in topical and conceptual discussion in these groups, but it seems that they’ve already used their energy for that keeping up with their social media obligations. Facebook groups get lost in the multitude of pages. So end user support groups have settled into Q & A, mark the answer as correct them move on. Then another person comes along with the same question, enters it into the box, sees the first ten “pertinent” results that don’t answer the question, posts the question, and the cycle continues.

If anyone has read this far, I commend you! Reading is fast becoming a lost art. I know it’s hard to read off a computer screen, easier on a tablet. And while I live my gizmos and gadgets, I have to still at least once in a while pick up a real book. I’m perfectly satisfied with my iTunes system with the only issue being the quality of any downloaded music. It’s better than it used to be, but CD’s have superior sound. Blu-ray Disc has superior sound and picture.

I did purchase several books from the iTunes Book Store. But why? I could have bought them anywhere and read them in iBooks, but not the other way around. I had to sell my iOS devices. And now I can’t read my books. But that’s another story, for another day.

Safari, Windows 7, Product not important to this post

Posted on Sep 28, 2014 5:46 PM

Close

Q: Some help please navigating these forums and a little discussion as well?

  • All replies
  • Helpful answers

  • by bobseufert,

    bobseufert bobseufert Sep 28, 2014 6:26 PM in response to Slip Jigs
    Level 6 (13,686 points)
    iPad
    Sep 28, 2014 6:26 PM in response to Slip Jigs

    The best way to use this forum is to go to the proper Forum for your question, tap new at the top of the page, tap discussion, ask your question. Mention your device, what operating systems you're using, and what trouble shooting steps you've already tried. Brevity is helpful.

  • by Ocean20,

    Ocean20 Ocean20 Sep 28, 2014 6:28 PM in response to bobseufert
    Level 6 (13,596 points)
    Sep 28, 2014 6:28 PM in response to bobseufert

    bobseufert wrote:

     

    Brevity is helpful.

    So diplomatic

  • by bobseufert,

    bobseufert bobseufert Sep 28, 2014 6:31 PM in response to Ocean20
    Level 6 (13,686 points)
    iPad
    Sep 28, 2014 6:31 PM in response to Ocean20

    I try.

  • by Yellowbox,

    Yellowbox Yellowbox Sep 29, 2014 6:09 AM in response to Slip Jigs
    Level 6 (10,435 points)
    Mac OS X
    Sep 29, 2014 6:09 AM in response to Slip Jigs

    Hi Slip Jigs,

     

    Getting the best out of the 'New-Look' forums (2014)

     

    In these new-look forums, some things have changed. Please consider:

    • the Gains in these forums and
    • New ways of working.

     

    Regards,

    Ian.

  • by turingtest2,

    turingtest2 turingtest2 Sep 29, 2014 9:15 AM in response to Slip Jigs
    Level 10 (85,241 points)
    iPod
    Sep 29, 2014 9:15 AM in response to Slip Jigs

    See this Site map of Communities and Categories for my main suggestion, bookmark the areas that interest you in a view which gives you the most detail about what has changed since your last visit.

     

    tt2

  • by ChitlinsCC,

    ChitlinsCC ChitlinsCC Sep 29, 2014 10:26 AM in response to Slip Jigs
    Level 5 (7,544 points)
    Notebooks
    Sep 29, 2014 10:26 AM in response to Slip Jigs

    Slip Jigs

     

    Contributors here so far are the cream of the crop...

     

    As an overall reaction to your treatise, I agree. I also judge that you - like me - may have some experience and skill at UX design (User eXperience - usability design, for the unwashed masses).

     

    First, let me commend your use of the WHITE SPACE that Apple graphic designers have so kindly provided. Looks very much like a paper page full of easy-to-read-SERIF-FONT text - it is clear you have experience with design concepts.

    As a tribute, I will post in your style - although our compose pane here is not quite WYSIWYG, I am hoping that line spacing will sort itself out, if not I will remove my attempt at bucking the system - but it may time for you to get some new optics

     

    you said:

    " ... v-bulletin and phpBB. Those boards were easy to navigate, as the forums, categories and topics were presented in a typical directory tree structure... "

    Agree that vBulletin, etc. WERE easy and familiar - but what is this structure but lipstick on that pig - see SITEMAP | ASC  (tt2's excellent UserTip). The digital directory tree is merely an adaption of the familiar Fileroom of old... a room for files(computer), file cabinets w/ file 'folders'(folders) and files(files). Apple in the form of Jobs/Wozniak (actually Xerox, but I won't quibble) was groundbreaking in the introduction of the GUI to the masses. [see your comment on being forced to learn a new way of working... has always been thus]

    Let me add that the lack of Apple's implementation of the stock features of "Sticky" threads - Announcements, Hot Topics, etc., is a miscalculation. The CATEGORIES above the Using ASC list of threads - "Announcements" and "Community Events" - baffle me as to their usefulness as I can see neither when I click 'em, only some "filtering" of what is in the "Feedback about Discussions" (?Feedback ?about? Disscussions?) Category.

     

    you further said:

    "... the trend has shifted to formats such as this. While some retain some semblance of categories and topics (discussions), others seem to abandon this altogether in favor posts or discussions being related via tags or keywords... "

    Kids these days... => iDevices (generic for handheld smarty-devices of any stripe) are responsible for the VISUAL graphic design conventions... no more teensy-weensy cursor - but BIG FAT FINGERS.

    A good suggestion to submit at Support_Feedback  might be to improve the 'Smartness' of the search capabilities by REQUIRING tags to be attached by the OP (offer suggestions if they wish) AND FURTHER, allowing other users of status to ADD tags (see your ¶ #2) - my estimation of the ACTIVE SEARCH is that it is looking for matching terms in the title of a thread, but I have no proof - anecdotal or by documentation at JiveSoftware.

     

    additionally you said:

    "... the use of buttons to compel the original poster to designate responses as helpful or correct answers. This I would guess is in response to the myriad of answer seekers posting questions, receiving several helpful replies and never going back to say thanks, thus, the threads become all but useless for others who experience and seek out solutions to similar issues. "

    I have no experience with other enterprise solutions, but the scuttlebutt on Jive is that it is the best in the business at Community Collaborative WorkFlow Software for Big Enterprise. We here unfortunately have been given use of a mere pittance of Jive's features. Apparently the MARKUP buttons have a really valuable purpose in the complete package of Jive workflow management. Here, merely a system for rewarding helpers. The green icon goes un-noticed by most and the OPost is likely irrelevant to most individual's issue. Regarding the latter portion, you can't change human nature. Some folks just aren't team players.

     

    you continued:

    "... The new format also usually starts out with “ask your question here” which is just another way to say, “hey, how about at least giving the search a try before asking a question that’s been covered before”. Because many self-contained search features just don’t work, I can see why users just skip over it. But, what they may not know is that you can use Google to search a specific site. ... "

    This particular issue of "Why do folks not go to the dadgum forum related to their device/software?" has plagued me since actively taking part here. My maladies prompted ME to go directly to the forum/sub-forum where they belonged. Clearly "My iPhone is a BRICK - how do I UN-BRICK IT?" does not belong in this forum - Using ASC - but thousands of similar questions land here - it MAY be because the DEFAULT forum for un-PRE-visited forum at SUBMIT.

    The WELCOME page has the preferred path - a "Search or ask a question" field and the teeny -> New to the Community? Start Here.  link (actually Tutorials )

    Picture 1.png

    -- neither of which content does anything to coach the new user in "How Do I Use This Joint?"

    Something akin to "Pick the Device or Software in which you are interested below" might at least get the visitor to the right place to BROWSE their issue. Many folks are unable to craft a TITLE to their question that even resembles their problem, much less explain it in the bodytext.

     

    This is explained  in the javascript:; link "How to write a good question"  - e content of which I leave open AND hi-lited in a text file ready to copy/paste, for example:

    Quoted from  Apple's "How to write a good question"

       To help other members answer your question, give as many details as you can.

      • Include your product name and specs such as processor speed, memory, and storage capacity. Please do not include your Serial Number, IMEI, MEID, or other personal information.
      • Provide the version numbers of your operating system and relevant applications, for example "iOS 6.0.3" or "iPhoto 9.1.2".
      • Describe the problem, and include any details about what seems to cause it.
      • List any troubleshooting steps you've already tried, or temporary fixes you've discovered.

    Here is how obscure that information is

    Picture 2.png

    It's almost as if the confusion is by design.

     

    HOORAY! - another fan of the Google workaround. I get pooh-poohed by some for even suggesting going off the reservation, but it works WONDERFULLY and is FAST AS LIGHTNING with even more useful post-result filtering.

     

    you concluded your evaluation with:

    " So, then – what’s the best and right way to use this new forum? "

    Learn the system just like you did when you first started using a computer instead of paper. It is what it is. I have a comfortable WorkFlow established using browser bookmarks and Add-ons + Google for all searches + email notifications to sort the wheat from the chaff. Not adopted of my choosing... but at least it's MINE!! Be advised that the SiteWare employs some "we will save you from yourself, helmet-law-like features" that may frustrate you from time to time - until you discover (or are told) how to circumvent them.

     

    Some definitions:

    • Apple Support Communities = Bulletin Board Software Site
    • Community = Forum
    • Category = Sub-Forum
    • Question = Thread
    • Reply = Reply

     

    Your not so "Brief History..." is clearly a good evaluation and Executive Summary. Are you SURE you're not an interactive developer?

     

    best regards

    CCC

  • by rccharles,

    rccharles rccharles Sep 29, 2014 4:40 PM in response to ChitlinsCC
    Level 6 (8,464 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Sep 29, 2014 4:40 PM in response to ChitlinsCC

    I agree with post in general.

     

    To eliminate the worst white space, use:

    Adjust the format and layout of ASC Web Pages

     

    I think with the adjusts by Hiroto as seen on the above link, you can have a good experience with ASC.  When ASC is having a good day, anyway.

     

    Asc is for answering post able Apple products. You could try:

         http://x704.net/bbs/

    for computer grousing and pontificating.