Pim M.

Q: Suddenly high latency

First of all: I realise there are a lot of topics regarding latency in MainStage, but excactly for that reason it's very hard to find a topic about the issues i'm experiencing. I really hope someone can help me. (I'm not a native English speaker, I hope I can explain everything clearly).

 

My setup

Macbook Pro 13" 2010 (C2D 2.4Ghz), 8GB RAM

Mainstage 3.0.3

Saffire Pro 14 (Firewire)

Kurzweil PC3x

Kurzweil PC361

 

Within MainStage I use some software synths, but most of the time it's just the audio of my two Kurzweil synths going into MainStage and than immediately to the output. One synth is connected via analog jack input, the other one with S/PDIF. I use MainStage to send Midi program changes to my synths and to be able to make 'mixing' presets for every song/preset.

 

The issue

During my latest gig I suddenly noticed a very heavy input latency while playing my synth. It was near the end of the gig, after playing nearly 2,5 hours. The strange thing is: it was a patch with only 1 audio input routed to the output. No heavy synths running on my macbook, nothing that could possibly cause a high CPU load or fill my memory. Restarting Mainstage solved the issue.

 

My question is: do you think this is a software issue, related to my Macbook or related to my audio interface? I am thinking about buying a new macbook or a new audio interface, but it only makes sense if i can be sure it fixes the problem.

 

Any help will be highly appreciated!

MainStage, OS X Mavericks (10.9.2), Saffire Pro 14, Macbook Pro 13" 201

Posted on Apr 29, 2014 3:11 AM

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Q: Suddenly high latency

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  • by shooter90,

    shooter90 shooter90 Dec 24, 2014 8:25 AM in response to shooter90
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 24, 2014 8:25 AM in response to shooter90

    Oh and I reformatted my Macbook at some point after getting Yosemite to see if it fixed the problem and it didn't. Restarting Core Audio fixes it until it happens again. It's infuriating.

  • by mikaelmoon,

    mikaelmoon mikaelmoon Dec 27, 2014 7:36 AM in response to Pim M.
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Dec 27, 2014 7:36 AM in response to Pim M.

    Amazing that such a huge issue for usability that we are all having here has no real solutions yet. Maistage is sold as a live rig but is impossible to use as such when you don't know when mid song high latency will suddenly appear after a small crackle. I'm praying for a solution or some insight here from Apple.

  • by danny zyg,

    danny zyg danny zyg Jan 5, 2015 4:18 PM in response to mikaelmoon
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 5, 2015 4:18 PM in response to mikaelmoon

    I've just stumbled upon this problem also!! SO frustrating!

     

    It happened the other day during rehearsal and again today. A real show stopper!

     

    I only realised earlier on that it had actually happened at a show a few weeks ago....I think I had forgotten because somehow I hadn't needed to restart mainstage to fix the issue (I recall just changing patches).

     

    I've started fumbling around with the aggregate device solution....too early for me to tell if it works or not but I will report back!

     

    Apple really needs to fix this...

     

    CPU is hovering around 45% on average, with spikes between 70-90% when changing patches (is this normal?)

    MBP 13 2.8 dual core i7

    16gb ram

    OSX 10.9.5

  • by danny zyg,

    danny zyg danny zyg Jan 5, 2015 4:37 PM in response to danny zyg
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 5, 2015 4:37 PM in response to danny zyg

    Forgot to say:

     

    Buffer size of 128 with I/O safety buffer on.

  • by mikaelmoon,

    mikaelmoon mikaelmoon Jan 5, 2015 5:22 PM in response to danny zyg
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 5, 2015 5:22 PM in response to danny zyg

    What audio interface are you using?

  • by danny zyg,

    danny zyg danny zyg Jan 5, 2015 5:27 PM in response to mikaelmoon
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 5, 2015 5:27 PM in response to mikaelmoon

    Ah yeh, vital info!

     

    Metric Halo 2882.

  • by djjot,

    djjot djjot Jan 14, 2015 12:29 PM in response to Pim M.
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 14, 2015 12:29 PM in response to Pim M.

    Having I think the same problems on mavericks 10.9.5 using Traktor A10 interface, but the issues still happen during using the default soundcard. The console shows IOAudioStream clipifnecessary errors when sound glitches. I tried to restart PRAM, update OSX, update all the drivers but it didn't help.

  • by Summervill2,

    Summervill2 Summervill2 Jan 26, 2015 10:06 AM in response to Pim M.
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 26, 2015 10:06 AM in response to Pim M.

    I had the same issue described above and it has seemed to be resolved by a full reboot prior to starting the show or rehearsal, and shutting down all background applications like Google Drive sync, etc and shutting down Wifi. I'm also closing and re-opening Mainstage 3 after five or six songs and during the set break (takes 15 seconds). This worked fine and did not negatively affect the show at all.


    Saturday's show was 3 hours and there was not a single issue.  I don't think I reset the system at all during the third hour.


    I don't know which of these steps solved it, but I hope it helps others having this same issue.

     

    System:

    Mainstage 3.0.4

    2.6 GHz Intel Core i7

    16GB DDR3

    OSX 10.9.5

    Saffire PRO 40 | Focusrite

  • by angelvoice,

    angelvoice angelvoice Feb 3, 2015 1:29 AM in response to jbule
    Level 1 (9 points)
    Feb 3, 2015 1:29 AM in response to jbule

    @ Pim.M.

    I have much more instruments in Mainstage on my 2011 MacbookPro, you have almost nothing, this should not be the problem.

    Please try one thing: Set the number of used cores to the half of your available. That means 1 instead of 2.

    I have 4 real cores, in mainstage it shows 8 imaginary ones. So once I found out, that it is better not to set to 8, I have selected only 4.

     

    With "activity monitor" you can see that nevertheless all processors are working.

    Or let's explain it like that: the system needs recources too.

     

    It's just an idea... that hopefuly helps.

    With your minimal setup, you don't need a new comp, I think too.

  • by HMBLiverpool,

    HMBLiverpool HMBLiverpool Apr 23, 2015 3:22 AM in response to angelvoice
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Apr 23, 2015 3:22 AM in response to angelvoice

    I've been having the same problem for a while now as well, on two different Macs with two different interfaces, operating systems, and versions of Mainstage.

     

    Setup 1: 2011 MacBook Pro

                  2.3GhZ i5, 8GB RAM

                  Focusrite Saffire Pro 14 (Firewire)

                  Mainstage 2  

                  OSX Mavericks (10.9.5)

     

    Setup 2: 2014 Mac Mini

                  2.5 GhZ i5, 8GB RAM

                  Digidesign MBox 2 Mini (USB)

                  Mainstage 3

                  OSX Yosemite

               

    I'm noticing the problem much more frequently on the newer setup (it has happened every time MS3 has been open for more than around 45 minutes now). I have a CPU meter in my concert layout, this never exceeds 35% and usually hovers around 15-20%. No audio channel strips, just instrument channel strips running Logic/MS plugins and a few instances of Kontakt.

     

    Someone in another thread suggested upgrading the quality of your interface cable - anyone have any input on this?

  • by geehard,

    geehard geehard May 17, 2015 2:27 AM in response to Pim M.
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 17, 2015 2:27 AM in response to Pim M.

    This happened to me during last night's performance again. Happens with some regularity, and since Mavericks, at least.

    This setup was MBP 15" Mid 2011 with Focusrite Saffire pro 24 DSP controlled by a Behringer FCB1010. Mac OS 10.10.3. The patches used stock plugins only so nothing exotic there. Very light for CPU and extremely low latency settings.

     

    If I forget to restart Mainstage before a set, the fastest way to correct the issue seems to be to switch the input to internal audio in the preferences, apply, switch back to saffire, apply. Luckily last nite was free improv and I was doing some long bow swells through a delay so I could get away with it and find a suitable break to do this - it does interrupt audio.

     

    On most performances I have my instrument connected to an A/B switch with the B channel running through a small digital stompbox which has some basic fallback patches, so I have a "panic button" bypass I can use to go on playing as the bugger restarts.

     

    Since previous posters have reported the same issue with non-Focusrite cards (unless those are OEM units manufactured by Focusrite) I suspect the cause to be in Mainstage itself. Annoying.

     

    I saw someone on this thread complaining about problems and he was running his rig at 96kHz sample rate. Playing music for dogs, bats, or dolphins? There is some merit in using high sample rates in early stages of recording process, but for live audio performance it is for audiophools only, like €2k USB2 cables. That CPU power is better used in (more) plugins, or as general insurance for spikes so don't buy that snake oil

     

    Yrjänä

  • by dbaerg,

    dbaerg dbaerg May 26, 2015 7:23 PM in response to Pim M.
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 26, 2015 7:23 PM in response to Pim M.

    This is SUCH a great thread - if at least because it tells me that I'm not the only bloody person experiencing this issue.

     

    My current rig:

    Macbook Pro Retina 2015

    intel core i7

    16gb RAM

    500GB SSD

    Mac OS 10.10.3

     

    For the shows I'm currently playing, I use the following:

    Roland TDW1 drums w/ Roland UM-One MIDI/USB cable

    Roland SPD-SX Sampling Pad as secondary USB-MIDI input, AND as USB audio unit

     

    Mainstage 3.1.1

    Plug-ins:

    Superior Drummer 2.4

    Steven Slate Drums

    Battery 3

    Kontakt 5

     

    Yes - I use digital drums through plugins LIVE (gasp). The sounds are AMAZING...if it weren't for this **** intermittent and seemingly cause-less latency.

    I'll be playing my part, and all of the sudden the MIDI will hiccup briefly, and when it finds itself again, it's extremely latent. Again, restarting MainStage is a fix, but not a solution - this shouldn't be happening in the middle of a show with a live audio rig. Regardless of it being used with drums, loops, keyboards...or anything!

     

    Sometimes the latency won't happen at all, sometimes it'll occur within mere minutes of starting the show...and other times it'll happen around the 1.5 hour mark. It's the most frustrating kind of problem. My CPU is consistently at about 10%, never goes above 20% (this MBP's a beast).

     

    I've used a PreSonus Audio box as the audio output. I've used direct from built-in headphone output. I've tried a more updated module (with USB instead of MIDI out). I've tried regular disk permissions repairs (apparently this is supposed to help). I've tried rebooting my MBP before EVERY gig. NOTHING prevents it.

     

    As you can see from the specs - there's no WAY CPU power is an issue...or RAM. I've ruled out the plugins based on the fact that it happens even using native Logic/Mainstage samples.

     

    I do run a backup output direct from the Roland module, so if for example, MainStage unexpectedly quits, I can quickly turn up the master until I reboot MainStage. Funny thing is, if the sounds are still running out of MainStage, albeit latently, there's no sense in running off backup...I'm often the only one that can tell something's wrong. When this happens in the middle of a gig...kinda kills the mood.

     

    I've tried everything and can't seem to find an answer.

    Anyone?

  • by lifenoise,

    lifenoise lifenoise May 27, 2015 5:25 AM in response to dbaerg
    Level 3 (758 points)
    May 27, 2015 5:25 AM in response to dbaerg

    Have you tried increasing the I/O buffer in preferences>audio>advanced settings? Set the driver latency as low as the system will allow. My I/O is set at 256, safety buffer off, driver latency 64. Response is fast enough with no glitches or stuck notes.

  • by dbaerg,

    dbaerg dbaerg May 30, 2015 11:37 AM in response to lifenoise
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 30, 2015 11:37 AM in response to lifenoise

    Thanks! Realized I had the I/O safety buffer checked, and that alone helped with overall latency (from 12.8 ms to 9.9 ms). I'll post agin when I try the other specs you mentioned. Hopefully that helps with the intermittent sudden latency changes.

  • by VHS1W,

    VHS1W VHS1W May 31, 2015 7:17 AM in response to AlexGe
    Level 1 (0 points)
    May 31, 2015 7:17 AM in response to AlexGe

    Hi everyone! I got the same problem with my MacBook Retina 15 i7 8GB Yosemite and Roland Octa-Capture. After 40min-3hours sound cracks and sudden huge latency appears. No matter if I use plugins, or what applications is working, or what usb-cable I use  - it happens anyway, and it is very frustrating.

    Your advice about Aggregate Device works great, but there is a little problem about big constant latency, that goes from built-in driver. I mean, Roland Octa-Capture has 1-4 ms latency and built-in Core Audio has 15 ms. So if I combine them in solid Aggregate Device with Octa-Capture master clock, it gets built-in latency (15 ms) - and that means that all speed of Roland Octa-Capture is totally worthless. This is offensively. Is there a way to fix it somehow?

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