Anna in Istanbul
Level 1 (0 points)

Q: Looking for input on photo management (Mac-iOS)

Hallo all,

 

I have pretty much had it with iPhoto and especially the limitations it puts on sharing libraries.  I don't much use Faces and Places, albums, photo books and all those details and am willing to sacrifice such bells and whistles for some old-fashioned stability and accessibility. Therefore, I am all set to try a new, hybrid approach which does not totally eliminate iPhoto from the picture - I am not pro enough to consider Aperture or something and do use iPhoto's editing capabilities occasionally - but will put my photo archives in a solid folder structure of jpg files sorted by months and "events" so to speak (a typical folder would be "2014-07 Italy" for example.

 

I am thinking of implementing the following setup:

 

1. Export my current iphoto library into a folder structure as described.  It is currently divided in events named according to the above conventions, so it will be a bit of work but essentially a no-brainer. I have found the batch change option in iPhoto to change title to event name, that should help.

Question here: If I export the files in the original size and resolution, will the total file size become bigger than my current iphoto library? Because it is huge already... If so, to what level can I safely reduce the settings if the most I will ever need to do with a photo is look at it on a computer screen or print a 13x18 cm hard copy, for example.

Second question: Is it useful to include location information if I am going to archive the pictures outside iPhoto? Is it accessible by any programs outside iPhoto?

 

2. Create a new library for each user on my Mac (my husband and me) and link each user's Photostream to that user's own library, so photos keep coming in automatically - I kind of like this particular feature of the whole Apple setup, but it didn't work properly with a shared library.

 

3. Once a month or so, as needed, edit and prune the new pictures in iPhoto and repeat the export procedure for each new library, combining the photos from both users into the appropriate folders where applicable. Then delete the photos from the libraries to keep them small and manageable at all times.

 

I realise this is not very automatic and elegant.

Question here: Does anyone have any ideas on possibilities to streamline this process? Or do you think this is a stupid idea altogether and I should do something totally different to achieve my goals? Any input is appreciated.

 

Thanks

Anke

iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2013), OS X Mavericks (10.9.5)

Posted on Jan 10, 2015 2:21 AM

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Anna in Istanbul

Q: Looking for input on photo management (Mac-iOS)

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  • by Terence Devlin,Helpful

    Terence Devlin Terence Devlin Jan 10, 2015 4:08 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul
    Level 10 (139,537 points)
    iLife
    Jan 10, 2015 4:08 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul

    First comment: I don't think you should do anything right now and here's why: Both iPhoto and Aperture are End-If-Life'd. They will be replaced with a new app called Photos.app and that is - apparently - designed to manage photos across Macs and iOS devices, and so why not wait and see what that offers. It's due this year, and current commentary suggests that's Spring rather than Summer.

     

    Anyway:

     

    Q1. The size of the folders will always be smaller than the iPhoto Library, as that contains your Masters/Previews/Databases, Caches and so on. But are you doing this in addition to an iPhoto Library? What's the point of that?

    Q1a. Any photo app that understand metadata will understand the location information. If you find that useful...

     

    As for the multiple Library approach, what does that gain you? If you're finding the Photostream element complex, how? Perhaps we can suggest fixes.

     

    Q 3. That workflow will fail - the Library will get damaged, for a start. You're also defeating the non-destructive element of iPhoto, plus making it more difficult to share your  images. It will  be more difficult to do everything, not less.

     

    What are your goals?

  • by Anna in Istanbul,

    Anna in Istanbul Anna in Istanbul Jan 10, 2015 7:09 AM in response to Terence Devlin
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 10, 2015 7:09 AM in response to Terence Devlin

    Hi Terence,

     

    First of all, thanks for the quick and constructive answer.

     

    Question 1 is perfectly answered, I suspected as much for the total size but wanted to be sure. And no, the point of this exercise would be to eliminate my massive iphoto library in favour of just a folder-structured archive.

     

    The two "personal" libraries would just be used as a receptacle for two Photostreams and to "weed out" and edit the photos coming in.  The photos in the libraries would be added to the archive folders at regular intervals and deleted from the libraries after that.

     

    My goal is to have my photo archive in a simple form that is less susceptible to corruption than the iPhoto library format and can be put on a shared folder and actually shared.  I think I can be trusted with having access to the original files - I don't go and accidentally delete all the files in my Documents folder either, after all.

     

    That said, obviously I would love a solution where iPhoto could do its job the way I need it. I would like a shared photo library in a shared folder on my Mac (not an external hard drive!) that can handle two photo streams coming in - ideally it would create two monthly photo stream folders for this purpose, but that's a detail.  It would be ok if iPhoto could only be open for one user at a time, I can see that simultaneous edits would wreak havoc here, but at least I should be able to close it and let my husband open it without having to repair permissions first.  Since this seems impossible in iPhoto right now, I was trying to think of an alternative.

     

    Thus, do you think Photos will clear up the mess that iPhoto is with regard to sharing one library among two users with separate PhotoStreams and users on the Mac? I have been fighting with iPhoto for years now, constantly having permissions issues and the like, until iPhoto would only start up after half an hour or more of repairs each time.  I have now rebuilt the library using iPhoto Library Manager, after all inbuilt options failed.  I'm willing to wait if there is any hope that these issues will be resolved in Photos...

     

    Anyhow, thanks again for the answer, this was helpful.

     

    Anke

  • by Terence Devlin,

    Terence Devlin Terence Devlin Jan 10, 2015 7:38 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul
    Level 10 (139,537 points)
    iLife
    Jan 10, 2015 7:38 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul

    Don't use iPhoto. It's a photo manager designed for a non-destructive workflow.

     

    You want to manage the files with the Finder and use a destructive workflow - basically the exact opposite of what iPhoto is designed for. Using iPhoto in that set up makes as much sense as using a Spreadsheet to write a Novel - possible, but much more awkward and all a bit pointless when there are other apps designed to work the way you want - i.e the Finder and any photo editor you choose.

     

    So, a simple procedure: Get the images from your camera/phones. Put them in the folders you want. Edit them. Job done. No importing, no exporting, no deleting and all that palaver.

     

    My reference t things going wrong is simple. You're proposing a complex workflow and  when you have that you have a good chance of things going wrong. You won't make a mistake the first time or the second time, but the 20th time or the 30 that time you get interrupted - a child gets sick, whatever -  and you pick up at the wrong place in the procedure. It happens.

     

    iPhoto will never share from a shared folder again. If that's your problem is an external drive such a big compromise? Only you can tell.

     

    By using iPhoto in the way you propose you lose the non-destructive editing, the OS integration, the ability to organise on standard photo metadata and in return you get what? An needlessly complex workflow. Just use another app and make life simple for yourself.

  • by LarryHN,

    LarryHN LarryHN Jan 10, 2015 7:49 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul
    Level 10 (84,632 points)
    Photos for Mac
    Jan 10, 2015 7:49 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul
    My goal is to have my photo archive in a simple form that is less susceptible to corruption than the iPhoto library format

    That is not possible - both you and iPhoto store the photos in a simple folder structure - neither is more or less subject to damage - they are identical - a good backup is the only solution to protecting against photo loss

     

    As to sharing - what you are proposing gives you a somewhat complex (and therefore subject to damage and loss) way to share the original photos among users but does not share any changes made - edits, metadata changes, etc

     

    You can not have two different PhotoStreams connected to the same library - what you are suggesting there is not clear

     

    sharing one iphoto library on an external drive is easy - iPhoto: Sharing libraries among multiple users - Apple Support

     

    As to Photos - because it is reported to  have the capability of sharing you library on iCloud and sharing between all Macs and IOS devices - it is in Beta for IOS now - iCloud Photo Library beta FAQ - Apple Support

     

    LN

  • by Anna in Istanbul,

    Anna in Istanbul Anna in Istanbul Jan 11, 2015 6:20 AM in response to Terence Devlin
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 11, 2015 6:20 AM in response to Terence Devlin

    Valid point about not using iPhoto at all.  I have been considering that as well.  Two questions:

     

    1. What do you suggest as a photo editor in that case? 

    2. The most important reason for my wanting to keep iPhoto in the picture is the automatism of having the pictures appear on my Mac with Photostream. If not that, is there something I could use to have the pictures automatically backed up at least to the cloud in case of losing a phone, say, on the last day of a memorable vacation, before being able to sync them back to the Mac? I believe Dropbox and colleagues can do this, but I haven't looked into it in detail.  Is there any one such offer that sticks out?

     

    As to sharing photos on an external drive: yes, I think this is a major headache. For something accessed as often as this, the drive would need to be continually connected to the Mac, blocking a USB port, making noise my husband won't put up with even for the backup drive I connect once a week or so (I know, I should get an SSD etc., but the point is, I pay an arm and a leg for a Mac with a terabyte drive, why should i have to make major investments to do something as basic as having a family photo library?)

     

    WHat I can't understand is why iPhoto can't behave a bit like iTunes. There, we have our music (mostly ripped from hundreds of CDs, we're over 40, you see) in a shared folder. Everyone builds their own iTunes library from there, and there is no whining about permissions etc.  if iPhoto is as nondestructive as you say, that is, it doesnt mess with the original files, why can't it work like this, with everyone having their own library referencing the same set of underlying originals kept in a shared folder?

     

    Anyway, this is all rhetorical, obviously. Thanks again for taking the time to give me input on this.

  • by LarryHN,Helpful

    LarryHN LarryHN Jan 11, 2015 7:10 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul
    Level 10 (84,632 points)
    Photos for Mac
    Jan 11, 2015 7:10 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul

    1 - you need to research that - I suggest and use iPhoto - occasionally Aperture on the same library and even less often PhotoShop Elements for editing - you disagree so you need to research and find what you like - you do not like what I like - there is a DAM forum (Digital Asset Manager) that has more general photo management discussions

     

    2 - Your iPhone will automatically backup to iCloud - there is an iPhone forum for those discussions - Dropbox works (but NOT as a place for the iPhoto library) Nothing except iphoto and Aperture (and Photos after this year) will give you Mac integration and iCloud integration

     

    LN

  • by Terence Devlin,

    Terence Devlin Terence Devlin Jan 11, 2015 8:54 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul
    Level 10 (139,537 points)
    iLife
    Jan 11, 2015 8:54 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul
    WHat I can't understand is why iPhoto can't behave a bit like iTunes. There, we have our music (mostly ripped from hundreds of CDs, we're over 40, you see) in a shared folder. Everyone builds their own iTunes library from there, and there is no whining about permissions etc.  if iPhoto is as nondestructive as you say, that is, it doesnt mess with the original files, why can't it work like this, with everyone having their own library referencing the same set of underlying originals kept in a shared folder?

     

    It can.

     

    But there is a big difference between iTunes and iPhoto that makes the comparison somewhat pointless: editing. iTunes has none, no version control. As databases go it's about as complex as an Address book. iPhoto has multiple interlinked databases for features like faces and so on, it has version control, editing and massive amounts of metadata to manaage. It's a far more complex beast.

     

    That said, you can store your files in the share folder and reference them from there, but I don't recommend it. This user tip explores the how and the why not...

     

    https://discussions.apple.com/docs/DOC-6361

     

    USB Hubs mean multiple items can use a single port, not all HDs (and no SSDs) make noise, ear plugs are cheap and husbands come and go

  • by Anna in Istanbul,

    Anna in Istanbul Anna in Istanbul Jan 12, 2015 1:42 AM in response to Terence Devlin
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 12, 2015 1:42 AM in response to Terence Devlin

    Ok, that's an argument about iTunes, not so sure about husbands coming and going though... ;-) I'll think about the whole thing some more.  But it still peeves me that it is so difficult to use iPhoto on a family Mac with input from two people.... Thank you for all your help, I really appreciate it.

  • by John I. Clark,

    John I. Clark John I. Clark Feb 6, 2015 9:05 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul
    Level 1 (97 points)
    Desktops
    Feb 6, 2015 9:05 AM in response to Anna in Istanbul

    I think Shared Photo Streams are your answer. You each have your own iPhoto library (and Photo Stream), but you each use iCloud Photo Sharing to create  albums that you both can see, add more photos to, etc. Seems like that's what you're looking for, unless I'm missing something...

     

    And you get to keep all the other benefits of iPhoto as well!

     

    More info: iCloud Photo Sharing FAQ - Apple Support