Maverick1848

Q: iMac 24" (early 2008) with Nvidia 8800GS - Repair hopeless ?

Dear all,

my iMac 24" (early 2008) with a GPU type "Nvidia 8800GS" suffered a failure of the very same GPU indicated by flickering screen and complete freeze of the machine no matter if under heavy graphic duty or not. The apple service provider proposed a replacement of the Nvidia 8800GS with a card likely refurbished by Apple at a relatively high cost.

 

However scanning the internet (MacRumours.com, MacUser.de, YouTube, etc) one finds literally hundreds of iMac owners that suffered the same GPU failure on the same type of iMac (early 2008) after 2-3 years of usage. In all reported cases the refurbished Nvidia 8800GS failed within a time span of several minutes to several months. To me it makes no sense to spend money on a refurbished GPU that has a 100% probability to fail within months.

 

I already considered a downgrade to an ATI Radeon 2600 Pro, but learned that this will drastically reduce the 3D gaming performance.

 

I know there are alot of people out there with the same problem, but what I look for is someone who actually found a long term solution resulting in a long term stable machine.

 

Thank you for your efforts,

Maverick1848

iMac, Mac OS X (10.6.8), Latest Snow Leopard Release

Posted on Aug 18, 2011 3:05 PM

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Q: iMac 24" (early 2008) with Nvidia 8800GS - Repair hopeless ?

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  • by swansonwi,

    swansonwi swansonwi Feb 18, 2015 3:34 PM in response to richsadams
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 18, 2015 3:34 PM in response to richsadams

    Sigh, I just posted a long reply to richsadams, thinking i was in this thread, when i was in an older, shorter thread on the same topic.

     

    here is my original reply:

    ***********************

    The bottom line is that Apple orphaned this iMac line very early on, having made a bad engineering choice with respect to the graphics card, which is an unusual form factor not shared by other models of iMac. (It's not, by the way, really an 8800gs -- it's actually an 8800M GTS, or maybe GTX, ie. a laptop GPU). By 2011 it was clear that they had a serious problem on their hands, and they did NOTHING to protect the customers who owned the machines. In particular, they did not work with any of their suppliers to ensure the future availability of any newer model of GPU on the same form factor. Instead they charged increasingly ridiculous prices to replace the original card with a comparable card (that might even have the same engineered-in flaw). If your iMac went bad in 2012, you were looking at spending something in the mid-300s to mid-400s to replace the card with a technology with half the performance of cards selling for $150. It was outrageous. I have a 2008 iMac with a beautiful monitor and a fully functional motherboard, and it's been nothing but a paperweight since 2013 because Apple decided it was okay for a 5 year-old machine to be scrapped.

     

    The exact circumstances of this engineering snafu are well understood -- there's a website devoted to it, nvidiadefect, though it can take you about two full days of searching and reading to get the full picture -- and I'm sure everyone at Apple knows exactly what happened and why. Someone at the company made an explicit and conscious decision that the owners of these machines would be hung out to dry as their GPUs failed. According to at least one user, the official story was that Apple <i>did</i> have a replacement program for the same cards in the Macbook Pro, but inexplicably didn't include this iMac model in the program. Moreover, according to the founder of that site, Apple personnel routinely told UK customers that they had no recourse, when UK law indicated that Apple WAS liable for replacing the parts, regardless of the official warranty period.

     

    I can, indeed, go ahead and buy a brand-new (i think) hilariously outdated Apple part 661-4664 for the entirely unreasonable price of $295 (not including installation), because Apple orphaned the form-factor and left its customers in the lurch. As someone who has been using Macs since 1985 (first workplace machine was a 512K fat mac, with an external floppy drive, oooooooo!), my disgust at this particular choice by a company with literally more money than it knows what to do with is and shall ever be boundless.

    ***********************

    I have an addendum to that reply, which is this: You can right now buy an identical 8800M replacement card for your HP laptop (LOTS of laptop manufacturers had this problem, none that I know of dealt with it very gracefully), for $110, the only problem being that its flash rom firmware will not be compatible with your iMac. In other words, Apple is charging you a $185 premium for the honor of being an Apple customer who was sold a defective product. The existence of the HP card makes it perfectly clear: Apple could sell you a replacement card for $110 without losing any money, but that is not good enough: They insist on profiting handsomely from this defect.

  • by godfathr03,

    godfathr03 godfathr03 Jul 1, 2015 7:47 PM in response to jwgish
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 1, 2015 7:47 PM in response to jwgish

    how much would you charge to do mine that just **** the bed?  LOL I just got call from Dr.Mac in Irvington, NY they quoted me price of $700 for video card with no guarantee that that will even be the solution! Early 2008 iMac ready for the trash....breaks my heart!  Other then having to replace the hard drive...that computer was AMAZING until video issue started!!

  • by godfathr03,

    godfathr03 godfathr03 Jul 1, 2015 7:59 PM in response to Maverick1848
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jul 1, 2015 7:59 PM in response to Maverick1848

    (playing Taps)  My brother and I entered the Apple store for our 1st purchase of an Apple product.  He swore up and down....Once you see what this Apple thing can do your gonna be AMAZED!  So we walked into the White Plains, NY Apple store and purchased 2 of the identical top of the line (at that time) iMac's.  Early 2008 24" beauties!  Years later his graphic card went....he called me up asking how mine was doing and explained they wanted like $700 to repair graphics card.  He ended up just purchasing a new iMac.  Suddenly 2 days ago my graphic card **** the bed!  I was quoted the same repair cost but told there is no guarantee that will be the solution.  I would consider doing the repairs/upgrades myself being I am pretty technically proficient.  Everyone I speak to says just get a new mac when you consider the time and money you will dump into a nearly 8 year old mac.  (HEARTBROKEN)  Wish Apple would look at this blog and take into consideration how many people have experienced this issue and like the airbag manufacturers finally come to there senses and stand behind their product!!!  Especially after what went from me purchasing my first Apple product nearly 8 years ago to owning every product they manufacture  since....ipads, iPods, iPhones, Apple TVs, etc...you name it Apple I have purchased it and been one helluva spokes person since

  • by richsadams,

    richsadams richsadams Jul 1, 2015 11:02 PM in response to godfathr03
    Level 1 (84 points)
    Jul 1, 2015 11:02 PM in response to godfathr03

    It doesn't seem likely that a failed video card could maim or kill you the way a defective airbag might.

     

    Seriously, if anyone finds a computer manufacturer that will replace an eight year old video card (or any other part for that matter) when it fails for little or no charge...please post the details!

     

    Like most of us, I'm spoiled by Apple. We expect a lot, they deliver a lot. Apple isn't perfect and neither was Nvidia when they built that flaky video card. Apple stopped using it, Nvidia stopped making it. Apple fixed the problem for as long as they could get replacements. Not much more can be done.

     

    Since Nvidia hasn't manufactured that particular card for years I'd be very wary of anyone claiming that they could "fix" the problem...whether they try to hack something else in or install a used card, it's just not worth the trouble IMHO.

     

    FWIW Apple replaced the Nvidia 8800GS in our '08 iMac a few years back ($175) and my wife's still using it without any issues. Fingers crossed it'll last a little longer, but if it failed tomorrow I'm absolutely certain that we've gotten way more than our money's worth.

     

    The new(ish) 27" iMac I'm using to create this post is nothing less than awesome on every level. Just sayin'.

  • by ipmungam,

    ipmungam ipmungam Oct 21, 2015 12:05 PM in response to Maverick1848
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2015 12:05 PM in response to Maverick1848

    Wanted to share my story in case it helps anyone, would also be good to hear any feedback.

     

    Sadly I think my faithful 2008 24" iMac's NVIDIA 8800GS video card finally died: woke up to find the screen locked, and rebooting looks fine until it tries to load the window manager (as best I can tell from system.log) when the screen then flickers orange and becomes unreadable. I believe the boot process hangs because even after waiting a while the volume buttons don’t make their usual noises, which I assume they would if the login screen had loaded properly. Completely repeatable behaviour, even safe mode wouldn't work. Reset PRAM and SMC, no change.

     

    Single user mode (hold command-S at boot) does work; checked filesystem (fsck) and looked around from the terminal, hard drive seems fine. So I moved the video drivers (NV*, GeForce*, AMDRadeon*, ATIRadeon*) out of the /System/Library/Extensions folder and voila -- the machine boots. Without these extensions the screen/video is very slow, but as far as I can tell it's working otherwise normally.

     

    Obviously such an old machine is not worth a lot, but since it's otherwise healthy I'd like to try to fix it.  So I’d be happy to hear from more experienced people if this behaviour (booting until window manager loads then orange flickering, safe mode won’t work but single user does, removing video extensions works) allows us to make any predictions about the success of the various options I’ve read about:

     

    1. Pull out the video card and bake it in an oven?

    2. Try same `reflow’ idea but a little more sophisticated, say with a heat gun?

    3. Send the card for professional reflow?

    4. Send it to be `reballed’ (read earlier post of ShaneMiller1121 reballing by hand, is that really possible?)

    5. Buy a new video card (looks like a new ATI 2600 HD PRO is £300...that’s steep)

    6. Send to Apple or a professional (probably steeper...unless anyone knows how to get Apple to fess up to a defective part).

     

    Happy to hear recommendations (I'm in Bristol if anyone knows of a local solution).

  • by richsadams,

    richsadams richsadams Oct 21, 2015 3:05 PM in response to ipmungam
    Level 1 (84 points)
    Oct 21, 2015 3:05 PM in response to ipmungam

    Bummer ipmungam. Been there done that, but several years ago when the GPU could be replaced. AFAIK and based on numerous posts here and elsewhere, there just isn't a GPU replacement option today. You could try reflow, and putting an iMac that's pushing eight years old on life support could possibly get you some additional time, but really at what cost? At this age other components are likely to begin failing as well. Not to mention that in the not too distant future we likely won't be able to upgrade the OS any longer.

     

    From low to high you've listed minimal cost - although your time is probably worth something - to paying far more to have it fixed than could ever make common sense.

     

    IMHO it's time to give it a fond farewell and replace it with one that will last as long or longer.  Folks on ebay seem to be able to get some money for them off for parts (although I wouldn't buy one for that purpose). If you don't want to spring for a new one there are plenty of previously owned iMacs (and MacBooks) that will perform better, last longer and cost considerably less than trying to save your loyal friend.

     

    Believe me, I get it. My wife's still using our 24" '08 iMac. Besides having the GPU replaced a while back I threw an SSD in it to give it a little more time. But it makes little sense to pile any more money into it when it finally fails...and it will sooner or later. It's been a great machine but all good things...

     

    That said my 27" Late 2013 iMac is awesome and I couldn't be happier with it. There's certainly a new our slightly used iMac out there with your name on it too. 

  • by gary2002,

    gary2002 gary2002 Oct 21, 2015 5:26 PM in response to ipmungam
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Oct 21, 2015 5:26 PM in response to ipmungam

    I know how you feel . . .

     

    My '08 24" iMac is working well - mounted on a VESA mount on the wall in my workshop.

     

    I had the same nVidia (invidious) problem - and I did reflow the graphics card - twice.

     

    It was easy enough to remove the card and reflow it, but when the fix failed after two reflows, I really ramped-up the issue with Apple. I have posts on this elsewhere, in this thread, I think.

     

    In the end, I found an understanding contact from AppleCare in Singapore (I'm in Australia) and they arranged for a local reseller to carry out the repair - "if we supply the graphics card, will you pay labour costs?" was the offer. I was happy to do so - and in the end, the labour charge didn't materialise.

     

    I had, however, purchased a 27" instead - my daily drive, sitting in my study.

     

    That was a couple of years ago. I have a Mac fan speed controller app running to ensure adequate airflow at all times (a sensor failed and tried to max the fans at all times - just too noisy) and I installed an SSD both to reduce internal power and heat heat loads and, of course, to boost the performance of the iMac.

     

    It's all running like a dream - and has done for a number of years since the repair.

     

    Your milage may vary, but worth pushing Apple, I'd suggest.

     

    When the 24" does die, it will be replaced with my 27", and of course, I'll update to a 5K (or more) iMac - whenever that occurs.

     

    Good luck....

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