bnahlik

Q: Drop Zone referencing time code 00:00:00:00

FCPX drop zone is referencing timecode 00:00:00:00 in my Motion template.  How can I use drop zone footage with a different timecode?

Posted on Feb 18, 2015 8:35 AM

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Q: Drop Zone referencing time code 00:00:00:00

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  • by fox_m,

    fox_m fox_m Feb 18, 2015 1:30 PM in response to bnahlik
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    Feb 18, 2015 1:30 PM in response to bnahlik

    You can use the Generators > Text Generators > Timecode generator and set the Offset parameter to create a start time.

  • by John Trautschold,

    John Trautschold John Trautschold Mar 1, 2015 1:38 PM in response to fox_m
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Mar 1, 2015 1:38 PM in response to fox_m

    I'm not sure that's what he is asking.  The problem is trying to get video to start at a particular frame when placing it into a drop zone.  I don't believe he's asking about placing an actual timecode video inside of a drop zone.  I've been having a lot of problems with this myself and recently posted a rather long discussion of what I found during some tests I did (in fact, using timecode video from the timecode generator in order to try to figure this out).  It appears that drop zones just haven't really been fully invented yet and it would be nice of the Apple Motion/FCP X team got together to finally fix this once and for all.  Others seems to have similar issues with this.

     

    Here's the link to my recent posting on this topic: Motion 5 / FCP X - Frustrating Drop Zones

     

    John

  • by fox_m,

    fox_m fox_m Mar 1, 2015 3:07 PM in response to John Trautschold
    Level 5 (5,507 points)
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    Mar 1, 2015 3:07 PM in response to John Trautschold

    Drop zone behavior has changed over the life of FCPX, so you need to be up to date to follow these instructions.

     

    FCPX allows you to select the first frame of a clip that will be started by the drop zone.

     

    Click on the Drop Zone source well in the inspector. You will be presented with a side by side view in the Viewer.  The cursor changes to a hand with a pointed finger. You can mouse over clips in the Event Browser or in the Storyline. You will see a Skimmer bar when mousing over clips (event browser and storyline.)  That skimmer bar marks the first frame that will be used for the drop zone. Click and Apply Clip.

     

    If you don't understand how that works, it can seem that the drop zone might appear to be "randomly" picking the start point.

     

    It is my recommendation to place the playhead at the beginning of the drop zone clip (if a generator or a title, place the playhead inside the effect and type the up arrow — that will align the playhead with the beginning of the effect - otherwise, the start of the clip if the drop zone is built into an "Effect".)  You can click repeatedly in a clip while choosing the start frame and it helps to be able to see the drop zone on the right side viewer at the first frame of the drop zone while you are picking the frame.

     

    Enlarge this screenshot. This is a snapshot just before Apply Clip. The red arrow displays the location of the Skimmer (sorry the cursor doesn't show). The blue arrow shows the current frame that skimmer is over in the viewer on the left side.  The green arrow shows the appearance of the drop zone in the clip viewer and the yellow arrow shows how the drop zone (from the generator over the storyline) is arranged over the storyline clip and where the Playhead is placed.

    DZs.jpg

     

    There is further information about how to actually sync a drop zone in this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rSB-df2cHtM

     

    Hope this helps.

  • by John Trautschold,

    John Trautschold John Trautschold Mar 1, 2015 3:42 PM in response to fox_m
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Mar 1, 2015 3:42 PM in response to fox_m

    I appreciate the post Fox and the link to your fine video on using the Comparator Generator; however, what I'm finding is that when multiple drop zones appear in a project clip they seem to reference the first drop zone.  (Your example uses only one drop zone. I've never had a problem syncing video with only one drop zone.)  My post, that I referenced above, didn't specify using this procedure, but that is exactly what I did.  Just to review a portion of that post:

    --------

    For the first test I placed each Drop Zone within one Group in Motion.  Drop Zones start at the following timecode for each location as follows:

     

    UL: 00:00:00:00

    LL: 00:00:10:00

    UR: 00:00:20:00

    LR: 00:00:30:00

     

    After publishing the project, I loaded it into FCP X.  I used the same timecode video for each Drop Zone starting it at timecode value 00:01:00:00.  Now, one would think that each drop zone window, having been placed exactly 10 seconds apart, would show timecode values for the inserted videos also each 10 seconds apart.  But they don't!  All four Drop Zones show exactly the same timecode value.  They are acting as if all four were placed within the Motion 5 timeline starting at 00:00:00:00.  But they weren't.

    -------

    I perfectly aligned the start point for each timecode clip segment for it's appropriate drop zone, (first one at 00:00:00:00; second at 00:00:10:00; third at 00:00:20:00 and fourth at 00:00:30:00) but found that FCP X ignored the clip's cursor location for all but the first drop zone.  Each of the other three referenced that first drop zone and when playing the project back, the timecode readout in each window precisely matched when they should have been 10 seconds apart.

     

    However, I also found that if I loaded the drop zones in reverse, starting with the last and moving to the first, using the exact same procedure, then all four drop zones synced perfectly.  Honestly, it's got me scratching my head.  I'm now working on a project that uses 12 drop zones and I'm seriously considering creating each drop zone video clip separately, exporting them from FCP X, importing them into Motion directly, then export the Motion project as a video which I can then import into FCP X.  I shouldn't have to do that, but at least that seems to work.

     

    John

  • by fox_m,

    fox_m fox_m Mar 1, 2015 4:47 PM in response to John Trautschold
    Level 5 (5,507 points)
    Video
    Mar 1, 2015 4:47 PM in response to John Trautschold

    Versions of FCPX before 10.1 behaved like this. There were another group of "behaviors" between 10.0.6 and 10.0.9 and another in 10.0.0 to 10.0.5. (Versions are "rough estimates" at this time. -- there have been major changes

     

    I just checked with a new Motion (5.1.2) project containing 3 drop zones. Placed in FCPX (10.1.4), all three drop zones behaved as I outlined previously.

     

    What version of FCPX are you using?

     

    First, when you add the media to the drop zone, are you just doing like a "quick click" ? Or are you clicking and holding until the change takes effect in the viewer? (which is still a short click...)

     

    If you're using an older version, the workaround is this:

     

    Add the clip you want to add to the drop zone into the project timeline (place it underneath any part of your storyline -- it won't even show.)  Trim the clip to the start (and end) frame(s). When you click on the Drop Zone source well, click on the clip under the storyline. It *should* load the drop zone with the edit range you selected in the clip under the storyline.  Once added to the drop zone, you can delete the clip in the storyline. (Since you can delete the clip after applying to the drop zone, you can place it anywhere in the project storyline that you want.  I can no longer test this, but have you tried setting an In and Out point in the clip in the Event Browser before applying the clip? It should behave the same. I used to just add the clip to the storyline so I could do color corrections, add effects, etc...

     

    Another problem with former versions of FCPX/Motion is that if a generator/effect was created for just 10 seconds, that's all the video that would play, no matter how long the original (drop zone) clip is and no matter how long you drag out the generator to be. (This has finally been fixed.)

     

    I stopped developing templates with drop zones a long time ago due to all the problems with them. They have only recently become viable again... and now that they are, I've already changed the way I view creating templates in ways that don't require them.

  • by John Trautschold,

    John Trautschold John Trautschold Mar 1, 2015 7:20 PM in response to fox_m
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Mar 1, 2015 7:20 PM in response to fox_m

    Fox - I'm using the latest releases for both programs.

     

    For the tests that I ran I clicked and held until the proper frame showed in the viewer.  Yet after clicking on the apply button, moving down to the timeline showed the clip to be "cued" to the wrong place.  Rendering the timeline had no affect.  I also did test with In and Out points in the clip - the way I originally set up clips for drop zones with older versions of the software (which never worked reliably either) but with the latest versions of Motion and FCP, they had no or little affect on clip placement within the drop zone.

     

    When I get some time I will go back and test again, making absolutely certain that I'm using the procedure you outline above.  Depending on the result of the test I may even make a video showing what is happening.  I should have some time again later this week to play with this some more.  I really do appreciate your responses here.

     

    John

  • by fox_m,

    fox_m fox_m Mar 1, 2015 8:42 PM in response to John Trautschold
    Level 5 (5,507 points)
    Video
    Mar 1, 2015 8:42 PM in response to John Trautschold

    Drop zones in mObject (plugin — motionVFX) also behave very much like the problem you're describing.  I have finally figured out a solution to that problem:

     

    In the Event Browser, pick your drop zone clip and set an in and out point (in the usually way.)  Right click on the selection and select Make Compound clip. Use the compound clip for the drop zone. You'll get the starting frame you need.  I personally don't like using compounds, but in a case like this, it might be absolutely necessary.

  • by John Trautschold,

    John Trautschold John Trautschold Mar 2, 2015 5:52 AM in response to fox_m
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Mar 2, 2015 5:52 AM in response to fox_m

    Hmmm, I hadn't even thought of using a compound clip for that.  That's certainly a good idea and I'll give it try when I have a few moments to experiment again.  Thanks Fox.

     

    John

  • by John Trautschold,

    John Trautschold John Trautschold Mar 2, 2015 11:59 AM in response to fox_m
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Mar 2, 2015 11:59 AM in response to fox_m

    Using a Compound Clip produces the same results.  The clips still do not properly sync themselves.  So, I just created a short video that shows the problem.  As you can see on the video I've got 4 separate drop zones, each one starting as previously mentioned, at:

     

    UL: 00:00:00:00

    LL: 00:00:10:00

    UR: 00:00:20:00

    LR: 00:00:30:00

     

    I'm using the same clip for each drop zone and I use the same starting point in the clip for each drop zone (00:01:00:00).  When I play back the timeline I should see the UL drop zone start at 00:01:00:00.  Ten seconds in when the 2nd drop zone appears, the UL drop zone should be showing 00:01:10:00 and the LL drop zone should be showing 00:01:00:00 - but it doesn't - it shows 00:01:10:00.  Same for the 3rd and 4th drop zones.  They all seem to reference and sync to that first drop zone.  Watching the video you can see that I'm very carefully clicking and holding at the exact same starting point for each drop zone.  It's a mystery!

     

    Here's the link to my test video: http://youtu.be/OUIcVJFIxYE

     

    John

  • by fox_m,

    fox_m fox_m Mar 2, 2015 1:36 PM in response to John Trautschold
    Level 5 (5,507 points)
    Video
    Mar 2, 2015 1:36 PM in response to John Trautschold

    LOL... sorry.  After Drop Zones, the timecode generator is the next biggest thing that gives me headaches.

     

    I see I didn't explain myself well enough. With your Timecode clip in the Event, set the In and Out points for the first drop zone and right click on the region and select Make New Compound and name it timecode 0- x and save it in the same event. Then go back to the original timecode clip, set another range for the second drop zone. Right click on that region and Make New Compound; name it timecode10-x and save it into the same event. Do the same for the third range and again for the fourth range. For each drop zone, add the corresponding compound clip. Then you should have the effect you're looking for.

  • by John Trautschold,

    John Trautschold John Trautschold Mar 2, 2015 2:46 PM in response to fox_m
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Mar 2, 2015 2:46 PM in response to fox_m

    I agree - LOL!  But for a different reason.  OK, so I made 4 separate compound clips this time per your suggestion.  Believe it or not (seriously, even I thought this suggestion would work!) it's still doing the same thing!  They still all sync together!

     

    For the project I'm working on now I'm just creating separate clips and exporting them from FCPX.  Importing them directly into the drop zone in Motion works perfectly.  Of course, having to export that final project as a clip is a bit of a pain, but at least it works.  Even if your suggestion above worked, why should we have to do that?  It seems obvious to me that this is a bug that has yet to be resolved in FCPX.  I probably ought to just file a bug report and be done with it, especially now that I've created a video showing the issue.

     

    John

  • by fox_m,

    fox_m fox_m Mar 2, 2015 5:38 PM in response to John Trautschold
    Level 5 (5,507 points)
    Video
    Mar 2, 2015 5:38 PM in response to John Trautschold

    FCPX used to highjack the timecode generator, so much so that I created my own version that did not use the timecode generator at all. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=43EKS5ptFcE. Shortly after I released my TC generator, Apple seemed to have "fixed" the default generator by adding the Offset parameter. Once upon a time, you had to manually set the starting timecode of the project in order to start the generator at anything other than 01:00:00:00. If you need a more flexible TC generator, check out the one I built.

  • by John Trautschold,

    John Trautschold John Trautschold Mar 2, 2015 7:22 PM in response to fox_m
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Mar 2, 2015 7:22 PM in response to fox_m

    Fox, keep in mind that this is a timecode generator clip that I rendered as a video from the timeline.  For all intents and purposes, it's just a regular old video clip that happens to have burned in timecode for the video.  I'm not actually using the generator within the drop zone for the tests.

     

    You are correct - the original timecode generator they supplied was pretty much useless.  This one does work ok and is working perfectly for this test that I'm trying to accomplish.

     

    John

  • by fox_m,

    fox_m fox_m Mar 2, 2015 7:37 PM in response to John Trautschold
    Level 5 (5,507 points)
    Video
    Mar 2, 2015 7:37 PM in response to John Trautschold

    Nice to have a reason for making it

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