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Helpful answers
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Mar 13, 2015 8:44 AM in response to jlfunderby Gator5000e,This is clearly an Apple problem. Since signing out of iCloud, my battery level is tremendous. I am 4 hours off the charger as I type this and I am still at 100% battery power. Usage and Standby under the Battery Usage tab is no where near each other, as it should be. Before signing out, they were within minutes of one another, evidence that something was causing the phone to be "used" even while sleeping. For me it appears to have been iClould being active behind the scenes even with all services turned off. Not sure how that can be anything but an Apple problem.
JL, good luck with your phone. Hopefully Apple will get this sorted out. And thanks for your participation. Everyone's suggestions were extremely helpful to me in getting the drain issued resolved.
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Mar 13, 2015 8:49 AM in response to Gator5000eby Briansyddall,Hi Try new Software update 8.2 out now. Cheers Brian
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Mar 17, 2015 5:12 PM in response to Gator5000eby Brian McMurry,Just an update on efforts to identify the trigger creating our battery drain as measured by cell data usage.
We have 2 iMacs, an iPhone 6, an iPhone 5s, an iPad Air 2 and an Apple TV all sharing the same iCloud Account.
When we left for a trip, I left my iPhone 6 on cell data only and reset cell data usage stats. My wife’s iPhone 5s was on WiFi only. Remarkably, cell data usage, specifically Documents and Sync, was normal on my phone.
So, I asked myself, what was different between prior to leaving and after leaving home? Well, both iMacs were shut down. I ran across a prior comment that suggested that a guy had one computer, a late 2009 laptop, that was creating the problem. As long as he had it not logged into his iCloud account, then he had no problem.
So, when I returned home, I only turned on my iMac. No problem was detected. When I turned on my wife’s, data usage started running rampant. I shutdown her computer after a few hours of my phone running cell data at about 25 Mb per hour. Data usage then returned to normal.
I ran the same test with both phones using only cell data. However, the test was for only 10 minutes since my wife’s phone has a very limited data plan. Same results on both phones.
Therefore, I am now focused on my wife’s computer as being the trigger. I should be able to achieve the same result if I boot her computer, observe the high rate of data usage and then dissipate when her computer is logged out of iCloud. That will be my next test.
I reported this to Apple including the following note:
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I am reluctant to remediate the problem if I discover the offending issue. That would be sidestepping what should be identified and properly addressed in the OS. I’ve found some other people with similar problems. Therefore, rebuilding or deleting the offending data or data structures will solve it for me but not others now or in the future. I believe it is in everyones’ best interest, including Apple's, that engineering take a more hands on approach while this problem is still reproducible.
I am looking forward to hearing what engineering has to say before I proceed.
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Apple sent back a request to do a Data Capture of my wife's iMac. Those files have been sent. They have scheduled a call with me for tomorrow. I'll let you know what I find out.
I do concur with you Gator, it is an Apple problem with either iCloud or my data. If the problem I am experiencing is due to a corrupted data element or structure, then as an end user, i.e. not a programmer, I should not be able to create it. Further, the adverse condition should be identified when encountered and properly handled rather than trying to process the problem without a graceful exit, rereading the same case over and over again creating an endless loop.
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Mar 17, 2015 5:15 PM in response to Briansyddallby Brian McMurry,I downgraded to 8.1.2 and that didn't fix my problem. I've installed 8.2 on all my phones and that didn't fix my problem.
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Mar 17, 2015 9:05 PM in response to Brian McMurryby Gator5000e,Thanks for the update. I'm not sure how its the data on your Mac as I don't sync with a Mac. if I have corrupted data it was caused by iOS or iTunes. I have been running without being signed into iCloud and so far I can't do enough to drain the battery completely. It's like having a new phone. Hopefully the Apple trchs tell you something concrete. But my experience with a senior tech led to believe the just can't bring themselves to admit that something with iCloud is causing the problem. Maybe it's not, but if it isn't, why is my phone lasting for so long when not logged into iCloud?
Let us know what the report analysis says. Thanks.
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Mar 18, 2015 7:57 AM in response to Gator5000eby Brian McMurry,Actually, the problem that may exist on my wife's Mac could possible exist on any device. It may be that her Mac is just a trigger because it is where a suspect issue resides. I think it is reasonable for a similar problem could be on the phone and it would then be the trigger. I'm not even suggesting that one would have to have more than one device logged into the same iCloud account to experience the results of the problem.
But, clearly, not being logged into iCloud skirts the problem, at least I'm 99.9% sure. I still have to test my wife's computer running without being logged into the iCloud account and observe 'no problem' regarding cell data usage and consequential premature draining of the battery on our iPhones.
I've restrained myself from proceeding with tests that may unintentionally resolve the problem until I hear back from Apple regarding the data they captured from her computer to prevent the possibility of uncovering the potential logic bug in their code. I say 'potential' in jest. It is with 'high confidence' that I anticipate that to be the case.
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Mar 18, 2015 8:06 AM in response to Brian McMurryby Lawrence Finch,You seem to have found a trigger for the problem in your case. Keep in mind, however, that this is not the only trigger for abnormal battery drain, which has been reported on a regular basis for over 7 years, long before iCloud existed. I hope you are successful identifying WHY having iCloud enabled on a different device causes battery drain. It's not a universal problem, because I have 3 computers (2 on Yosemite and 1 on Snow Leopard), 3 iPhones and an iPad all sharing the same iCloud, all enabled for iCloud, and I don't see any problem.
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Mar 18, 2015 10:02 AM in response to Lawrence Finchby Brian McMurry,Yes, it appears I have discovered a highly reliable means to replicate the chain of events to create the problem.
I understand completely that there are many potential conditions that can invoke the undesirable results of excessive battery drain. I also understand that you may not be experiencing the problem even though you have many devices sharing the same iCloud account because multiple devices sharing the same iCloud account is definitively not a condition that creates the problem.
Being a seasoned software developer as I am, you must be aware that code reacts to the data it processes. Bugs in code that are not data dependent equally effect everyone, they are easily identified and should never be shipped. But bugs that are data dependent are only revealed by being subjected to different test data sets. In the real world, the data it processes is likely very different on every device on which it is executing. Unfortunately, poorly designed test data sets don't cover all the conditions the code will encounter in the real world. Therefore, just imagine that it is possible that I have a corrupted data element or structure that you don't have. The code processes yours without reservation. However, when it processes mine that 'doesn't conform' to expectation and the software designer didn't account for that condition, then the process may just loop and attempt to process the same condition again and again and again.
I had a rule for the code wrote by myself and all the software developers that worked for me, always provide handling for the unexpected with a logging of the event, a notification to the user with appropriate action to be taken and a graceful exit. If the state of the data has 4 possible cases then handle 5, the 5th being the unexpected.
I'm suggesting the potential that this is a systemic problem that is common amongst novice and/or sloppy programmers. Everyone having a battery drainage issue may have very different triggers that are being encountered by different processes. But, if the common thread is a pervasive style of incomplete software design, then for the greater good, I'm doing my best to rule it out of consideration. If it is found to be a common practice, then my efforts in solving the problem I'm experiencing could have legs into solving others'.
Another rule I had for the support people that were under my employ was to never reply to an end user with a "It works for me". I'm confident that you believe others are experiencing real problems, but the fact that you "don't see any problem" makes no useful contribution to the dialog. It just means you don't have data that is initiating the problem and is useless in the process of solving the problem for others.
I am very certain that if you were to log into our iCloud account on your phone and my wife's computer was also logged in, you'd experience the same problem we are. I've replicated the problem on 3 different phones, the latest was a brand new iPhone 6 that was not restored from a back up. Right out of the box, i.e. only unadulterated Apple software running, I logged into our shared iCloud account and the problem soon appeared.
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Mar 24, 2015 8:08 AM in response to Brian McMurryby Gator5000e,I know this isn't scientific but I wanted to report my findings as I haven't seen any updates to this page in a week. I was out on vacation all last week and had iCloud turned off (signed out). My battery life was exceptional. All day of photos, videos, texts, email, checking the NCAA tourney scores, some streaming, etc. I couldn't run the battery down. I did log into iCloud twice to perform a backup but i would immediately log out again when that was completed.
After getting back home, I decided to try staying logged into iCloud this morning. Since. 8:15AM EST, the phone has gone from 100% to 85% in less than 3 hours. I have done very little with the phone. As I said, I know this is not scientific but whatever on my phones (all three of them, including the two Apple replaced) continues to function while logged into iCloud and drains the battery.
I don't know if anyone has had any progress with Apple on this issue. I would be nice to have some of the iCloud features available, like Find My Phone. But I can't live \with the battery life as it exists while the phone is logged into iCloud.I don't know if Apple told you anything new, Brian, but if so, please post. My last experience with the senior Apple tech said he doubted iCloud could be the culprit. That is the easy way out for these techs, I suppose.
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Mar 24, 2015 8:20 AM in response to jfialkowskiby mmjchat,My Location services are all shut off.
Any other suggestion on increasing battery life with 8.1.3? I have to charge my phone 2-3 times a day and with minimal use.
I usually never to updates but had to because of other issues, wishing I didn't now.
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Mar 24, 2015 8:31 AM in response to mmjchatby Gator5000e,Turning off this and that off (like location services) did not work for me. The only thing that has worked is logging out of iCloud completely. Try this and see if your battery life increases at all. You can always log back in if you want. I would run an iCloud backup before you log out, if you back up to iCloud.
To log out, do this:
Go to Settings.
Scroll down to iCloud.
Scroll all the way down to the bottom of the screen and tap on Sign Out.
Follow the prompts to sign out of iCloud.
If you try it signing out of iCloud, let me know if it works.
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Mar 24, 2015 8:52 AM in response to Gator5000eby Lawrence Finch,I agree; iCloud per se is not the culprit. I have iCloud on all the time. I also have every other feature of the iPhone on - Cellular data, WiFi, Bluetooth, Brightness on Automatic, Location Services, Background Apps enabled, all iCloud features enabled, separate MS Exchange account, 3 other email accounts. Over the course of a day my battery will drop between 30% and 50%, depending on how much I use the phone. This is the first time in 7 years of owning iPhones that I have charge left at the end of the day.
However, iCloud is a real time update service. Any time any data source changes anywhere in your cloud that change is propagated to the phone. So if some other device is updating iCloud content that will result in energy drain on the phone.
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Mar 24, 2015 9:16 AM in response to Lawrence Finchby Gator5000e,I have no other device logged into iCloud. I've logged out of my iPad and computer. So no other device is causing a drain. And I don't see why the Usage and Standby times under Battery Usage should be identical. Standby time should be far greater than Usage time. But when I am logged into iCloud they are pretty even. For example, in the 3 hours that ran when I posted earlier, both Usage and Standby times were within 15 minutes of each other. That means something is using the phone constantly in the back ground. It's not an app. This happened with a brand new phone, set up as new with no apps added.
All I know is that when I am signed out of iCloud, I get tremendous battery life. Even with all other services turned on, like Locations Services. And now, being logged into iCloud, my battery is down to 75% after only 4 hours. I wolud barely make 10-12 hours at this rate and I haven't really used the phone.
So, unfortunately, I will now only be able to use iCloud to back my phone up (in addition to using the computer backup thru iTunes). I will have to go without the find my phone feature.
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Mar 24, 2015 10:29 AM in response to Gator5000eby Brian McMurry,I wish I had something of value to post. I'm sure I will, but just not yet.
I can say that even though I use cell data usage as my barometer to indicate when the problem is in force, I have determined that through comparisons of battery drainage when cell data is off and I am testing while using WiFi only, that the problem can also be initiated. The drain is greater while testing under cell data than it is using WiFi and I have stats to provide a very accurate determination of when the problem shows up. I suspect that high data transmissions through the cell modem creates a larger demand on the battery than WiFi.
I would suggest Gator that you turn on iCloud on one of your devices. If you detect there to be a problem, turn it off for that device and then turn it on for another. If the problem doesn't exist on the second device using iCloud by itself, then leave it on and try a third. Each time, evaluate the results and only leave iCloud on for those devices that present no problem. This could help you identify any device specific issue. Or, you may find out that it is pervasive across all devices.
I was able to identify one specific device initiating the problem. That is not to say that you might have more than one.
I don't know how much longer my wife will tolerate my waiting on Apple to respond with something useful. She is getting annoyed by the alterations she has had to make to use her equipment from the way she likes.
Eventually, just don't yet know when, I will take the reins and rebuild the iCloud data structures on her computer. I trying to have patience for a more definitive identification of the trigger within her iCloud account on her computer. Apple is suppose to be analyzing it now. But, I will eventually employ the NUKE approach when my patience has worn out. That will be somewhat of a sad moment for me. It will reflect my willingness to abandon constructive problem solving techniques which now requires Apple's contribution.
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Mar 24, 2015 2:03 PM in response to Gator5000eby Amalokch,Hello everyone, I have to say thank you guys to try to find out how to fix this issue or try at least to know where the problem is originates, because apple doesn't seems to have one answer .
I was waiting for an update about this discussion for a while, because I don't know what else to do I've tried ALL the possible solutions and nothing helps.
My case is strange because I have this problem even if I'm in flying mode and the phone in standby during the night, wifi OFF, Locations services OFF, then in the morning the battery has been drained in almost 50% during the night.... come on! how that can be possible?!!!!!. Gator500e; I'll try to logout from iCloud, and see what happen. I don't think the problem is the wifi or cell phone data, well at least in my case, because as I told you even in flying mode and ALL the services deactivated the battery drains quickly. I don't know what else to do so I think this is one of my last chance that I have.
By the way I've a macbook air, do you think I need to logout from iCloud too?
Iphone 5s, 4 month of usage.