Q: GPS data not available to apps after iOS 8.3 update

"NOTE: Portable EFBs are limited to hosting Type A and Type B software applications with intended functions limited to a minor failure effect classification. However, Type B software applications using a depiction of an own-ship symbol are limited to airport surface operations only and to speeds of less than 80 kts ground speed." par 9 page 5

http://www.faa.gov/documentlibrary/media/advisory_circular/ac_120-76c.pdf

I'm not a pilot.

Robert

I do not know why you are persisting in this interpretation.  You know "never" mean zero instances of a thing.  It is well documented that Apple lets you downgrade for a limited time after ever release of IOS.  Hence this is many instance of never being false.

Robert

That is referring to the use of those devices. It is not referring to all types of flying. My father, brother-in-law, etc. are all pilots. None of them use the iPad combination.

Yes, I said before you that they do so. They make it available for a very brief period for developers to use one previous iteration. As you well know most people don't know how to roll back the iOS. In this case Apple kept signed copies of 8.2 for the iPad available for a much longer time than usual but even Bad Elf did not recommend rolling back, too many possible unintended consequences.

Keeping the previous version available for a very short period is not the same thing as just allowing people to roll back to whichever version they would like. Pilots who wanted to could have rolled back to 8.2. They could sign up for the public beta and be running 8.4 (and yes I do know a pilot who has happily done so). Or they can wait.

But sorry as all General Aviation pilots with a brain know they are not the darlings of the world and they are not going to be able to rally the public to their cause. There is not enough of them, too many of the public think of them as rich kids with expensive toys making noise. A much bigger threat to these pilots is the loss of small airports which is happening at an alarming rate. If you look through all of these threads you have maybe 15 pilots who are complaining here. Even inflating that for the general population out there by 100 (way too liberal) that is only 1,500.

Most of the pilots I know who do not have the instrumentation in their aircraft are not using the cheaper iPad workaround they are using one piece devices. They are more expensive but you don't face this exact situation and if you do it is one call and no finger pointing. Well, mostly.

One more thing, could you share with us what Apple Customer Service said when you called them?

There is such a simple solution for us all. When we find out that the latest updatye doesn't work with our device or software............. WHY FORCE US TO KEEP IT ON OUR MACHINE? My old iPhones can't even be firmware updated. and that is ok! Even if I cannot use the most recent apps. Do I have to? No. At least my old phones and also my old Macs work the way the used to.

So Please, Big Apple, let us downgrade to the firmware version where our precious soft - and or hardware works. Is this really asked too much?

Well, I have learned my lesson. I don't blame Apple. I blame myself for trusting Apple to "just work". Do I think they are flawless? No. I understand that this only affects a very small community. I do not expect Apple to cater to us "one percenters". But I will hold the argument that lots of people use iPads for "non-prescribed" functions.  All one has to do is look in the App Store. There are businesses using credit card reader software, medical offices using them for patient documentation, etc, etc.

The fact that this happened has made me a better pilot.  First thing, I got to pull out the old paper charts and fly off of antique VOR navigation.  (Old school) I got in some good practice that I may have not have otherwise gotten.  Secondly, it made me rethink about the false faith that I had in Apple products in the cockpit (my own stupidity). Lastly, it made me realize that Apple's niche of "it just works" is probably not as true as Id like it to be.

i am dissapointed in this aviation/Apple/GPS fubar occurring. I understand that Apple can not cater to the small minority. If it's Apple Watch vs. blue tooth navigation; Apole Watch will win every time.

Do I plan on dropping all Apple products for other tablet brands? No. I think they ALL have inherent problems also. I have just now thrown Apple into that same basket. However, I do plan on purchasing an Aviation GPS stand-alone unit that DOES have pilots interests in mind.  Will it also have problems? Possibly. But seeing that the pilot community IS their customer base, I would (maybe falsely) expect better response times/fixes.

WIll Apple be affected by my decision. Absolutely not.  Will they care if I stop using their products for aviation? No.

Do I care that Apple's low priority placed on this issue effects me as a pilot.  You can bet the bank on that.

There isn't really any "blame" here. Someone at Apple changed some code regarding Bluetooth and as an unexpected consequence it affected some 3rd party devices and software that are used by a very small percentage (nowhere near the medical and POS users). After it was released they were notified by the 3rd party companies and they worked on a fix. That is it. They left a previous version signed for much longer than they usually do and there is the public beta. Hopefully in the future the companies impacted will be much more diligent in testing software as it is released and this can be avoided. And probably on June 8th 8.4 will be released.

It won't make you feel any better but this has happened before with all computers, phones, small electronics, etc. And it will again I'm sure. I do agree with you on going to a single vendor solution, learned that many moons ago while I was working.

You are right to hedge though about single vendor solutions. I doubt that Dual or Bad Elf do in house programming. If a new product, or upgrade, went awry they are dependent on the software development firm to provide a solution. If they are unable to then it can be a long wait. And yep, been there done that.

P.S, Call AppleCare and ask to be transferred to Customer Service and speak to them. It is the second best way to get your point across, we are just users like yourself. Before you call think about what you would like them to do to compensate you fro your troubles.

Did this already.  (Aside from "compensation")

If it were me I would call them back and discuss compensation. This is the advantage of being a small group. See if they will give you an Apple Store Gift Card for your troubles.

AS much as I am a fan of free stuff, that's not really my objective. Thanks anyways though   

Didn't in any way think that, you could call and confirm the release but you should receive some compensation for this occurring. That would only be fair.

I have to agree with most of what you've written firemediclex. It makes me wonder whether, after this crap dies down and everything is working again that I'll remember why I bought the iPad in the first place, and forgive. The ipad running OzRunways boosted my situational awareness and allowed me to navigate with accuracy and convenience spending most of my (VFR) time looking out the window and not fooling with unwieldy paper maps in a small cockpit. The ipad as an EFB has changed the way most pilots fly - even airlines. It is a great boost to aviation safety and is vastly superior to the dedicated GPS that cost from $2,500 upwards. While I may eventually forgive Apple for being just like all the other OpSys producers and press on with it, I'll never forget and will go back to the approach to software updates that I've followed for decades.If I ever buy another iPad I certainly won't buy one that is not WiFi + Cell! My new aircraft with the Garmin G3X Touch will provide the full redundancy I need regarding electronic navigation. And then I still always carry a paper flight plan that would allow me to get somewhere with the compass and my watch and a good look around outside.

I've had work experience with IBM, Honeywell, Control Data,MS, DEC, and numerous big system suppliers including SAP and have followed the industry standard practices advocated by rccharles. Funnily enough, it was Microsoft that sucked me into a lazy "trust them to get it right" attitude. For years I've been running Windows 7 without a single blip. I actually allow the system to automatically download the updates and install them, something I would never have once done. I (subconsciously) thought if MS can get it right, Apple should never be a problem. But then my life was never likely to depend on anything that came from my laptop.

While flying is my passion, I am not a commercial pilot and do not fly every day. By the time I stumbled on the bug and worked out that it was not a Dual or Ozrunways issue but an iOS "undocumented feature" it was too late to roll back to 8.2 or I would have done that in a heartbeat. I can understand Apple not wanting to leave prior versions up for long but it is not a good look when they manufacture a monumental stuff up and take ages to admit it was their error and offered no solution other than "don't hold your breath - we'll get back to you, eventually". If they allow roll back for two weeks, why not a month - particularly when they know there were serious issues with 8.3 in addition to the Bluetooth problem? Why not let customers know there is an issue with 8.3 and *recommend* and facilitate rollback to 8.2?

Claiming that Apple didn't invent the iPad to be an EFB is a urine weak. It invented a device that could accept, via bluetooth, GPS data and pass it to Apps that requested such data. It was designed to provide, on request the best GPS data available to it. In the case of the no-cell iPads, that was always going to be an external source. I doubt Apple invented the iPad with one-hundredth of its current applications in mind. So what

deggie: "If you think this is the first time (or last) that this has happened you are mistaken" .

I'm reliably informed that it is the fourth time this feature has been damaged.Unfortunately, I didn't know Apple was that bad at quality control when I bought the iPad but, courtesy of this stuff up I am now ell aware of this feature and have repented from my laissez faire attitude.

Downunder, the iPad is accepted by aviation authorities as an EFB and saves us buying scores of maps and carrying around several kilograms of airport guides and aviation law and regulation. It is not, however, accepted as a legal primary means of navigation by GPS. I imagine the situation with the FAA Is similar. For all that 20th Century attitude, it *is* the primary means of navigation for almost all non-commercial pilots with paper maps and compass a backup.

"There isn't really any "blame" here. Someone at Apple changed some code regarding Bluetooth".

True, we all make mistakes. Any concept of blame is around not admitting the mistake promptly and providing a quick and safe way around the problem either a bug fix release or a rollback the latter being immediately available but not promoted. This will have damaged Dual's and Bad Elf's business markedly. If they survive, you can bet they will be very circumspect about every future Apple tweak of iOS.

Hi PilotDon,

You seem to be the knowledge on this topic.   I have only just bought a Garmin Glo and discovered this communications issue.

Im using Sky Demon which seems to get a lock every minute of so then dies.  Unfortunately I upgrade ios before i concidered

using my ipad mini as a gps device.  Anyway, I admit I have not read everyones contributions to this forum as there are so many.

Have apple released a date where this will be fix or has anyone found any temp solutions ?

Kind Regards

Paul