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Q: Micronet SCSI Utility Problem

I have recently obtained an Apple HD20SC with its drive replaced with an IBM 153 MB drive. At first, the drive wouldn't mount on my System 6 Desktop when I booted from a disk. I would have to use the Micronet SCSI Utility to mount it manually. I used the Micronet SCSI Utility to create two partitions, 0 and 1. 0 was just a filler partition, with 1 megabyte, while 1 was 152 megabytes. Partition 1 mounted, so I put a system folder on it. I then tried to boot from the drive, but my Macintosh Plus stayed on the ? Floppy Disk Screen. No X. I then tried to format the drive with interleave 3. (I find it strange that the interleaves were in 1, 2, 3, as opposed to , 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, etc.) When I tried to do that, I got a Sense Key = 5, Error Type 36. Formatting Failed. I tried formatting in every interleave, 1-7, but only interleave 1 would work. I know that the Macintosh Plus requires interleave 3 or 3:1. The Micronet SCSI Utility will not let me do that. The Drive is terminated properly, with the terminator in the upper SCSI port on the drive, and the SCSI Cable on the lower port. What is going wrong? Should I use the Apple HD SC setup instead? Do I need to have a battery installed? I have a Utilities Disk with the Apple HD SC setup on it coming in the mail, along with a replacement battery.

 

Maybe it won't boot because I have no proper way to install System 6, other than dragging the system folder on to the hard drive icon on the desktop.

Macintosh Plus 1MB, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier, Most likely converted from a 128k or 512k

Posted on Jul 26, 2015 7:50 PM

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Q: Micronet SCSI Utility Problem

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  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 10, 2015 1:08 PM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 10, 2015 1:08 PM in response to aidancaamano

    Alternatively, you could remove the resistor packs and only use a terminator in the port.

     

    The external ID switch is not absolutely needed (does the cable plug even fit?). ID 6 has been set by the jumpers on the hard drive (see my earlier message).

     

    A suitable version (apparently, not the personal edition) of a commercial utility called FWB Hard Disk Toolkit could possibly be used for advanced settings like this. I have not tested this, and cannot promise anything (we still do not know if the drive makes use of "unit attention"). Also, I have not tested a cable modification of the kind mentioned under the link above (before carrying out any experiments involving wires in a SCSI cable, one should double-check everything; there is a risk that the computer and/or the hard drive could become damaged).

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 10, 2015 5:34 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
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    Aug 10, 2015 5:34 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Which version of FWB Hard Disk Toolkit would you recommend?  It's worth trying. I am pretty confident that this drive uses "unit attention," since I can hear the read/write heads of the drive going "click-click... click-click... click-click" until I insert a floppy disk or turn off the computer. Also, the external ID switch cable doesn't appear to fit anywhere on the drive.

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 10, 2015 8:11 PM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 10, 2015 8:11 PM in response to aidancaamano

    Sorry, I cannot give you a version recommendation. A special problem in this case is that it may be difficult to locate a version that would work with System 6 (and an 800K floppy drive). Also, a random search returned another web page (http://www.verycomputer.com/26_dc1598a13a08e009_1.htm#p3) that possibly could be of some interest to you.

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 10, 2015 11:45 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
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    Aug 10, 2015 11:45 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    The link you provided claims that to prevent the drive from being reset constantly, I must clip the wire which carries the reset signal. Which wire would that be? Is it the same for all SCSI cables? I could also just block on of the pins from making contact with the cable, so I wouldn't have to clip it. If the problem is Unit Attention, then I must either "set one of the bits" or replace the firmware PROM. I assume that a bit would have to be set using a program like FWB Hard Disk Toolkit. I would first like to try disabling the rest signal line. 

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 11, 2015 4:46 AM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 11, 2015 4:46 AM in response to aidancaamano

    The hard drive cable connector should look something like http://pinouts.ru/HD/ScsiInternal_pinout.shtml (single-ended). The only reset seems to be /RST at pin 40. I do not know if this is the "reset" signal wire that was referred to in the link (the text under the earlier link mentioned a "sense line" instead), nor whether a cable modification will change anything as far as the boot problem is concerned.

     

    Cables and connectors are standardised, so you may also want to look for a new 50-pin SCSI (internal) ribbon cable (online or elsewhere) to be used for any experiments.

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 11, 2015 12:10 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
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    Aug 11, 2015 12:10 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    I am pretty confident that the /RST line is the correct one, since there does not appear to be a "sense" line. Would simply blocking the pin hole be enough to disable the line? Could such modifications destroy the drive? (I am willing to take such risks)

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 11, 2015 1:37 PM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 11, 2015 1:37 PM in response to aidancaamano

    >Would simply blocking the pin hole be enough to disable the line?

     

    How would you do that? Then it would not be possible to insert the connector.

     

    I guess that the easiest way would be to cut a wire in the SCSI ribbon cable leading to the hard drive, as mentioned in the linked texts (if necessary, it should not be impossible to join and insulate the wire parts later).

     

    >Could such modifications destroy the drive? (I am willing to take such risks)

     

    Yes, as indicated earlier, there is a risk that the drive and/or the computer could be damaged. If you decide to continue, make sure that you locate the exact pin position/wire. Double-check the hard drive SCSI connector layout and numbering. Be careful, and insulate any free wire ends. Again, all this is totally experimental, and I do not want to encourage you in any way.

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 11, 2015 3:22 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
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    Aug 11, 2015 3:22 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    I cut the sixth wire from the right side looking down, as note in the diagram. This changed absolutely nothing. No read/write errors, the drive still works the same as before, and still doesn't boot, complete with the same clicking sounds. Did I cut the wrong wire? I'm pretty sure I cut the reset line, which would be at pin 40. Also, I cannot replace the cable, since it appears to be hardwired to the two SCSI ports on the drive. It doesn't appear that this particular line was very important. I even verified the blocks with Lido, and there were no errors.

     

    IMG_0021.jpgIMG_0022.jpg

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 11, 2015 5:33 PM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 11, 2015 5:33 PM in response to aidancaamano

    From the picture it is difficult to see whether the cut is in the fifth or sixth wire (or both). It is probably easier to separate wires before cutting.

     

    Anyway, please check again, The ribbon has 50 wires in one layer. The connector has 25 rows, each with two pins. Am I wrong in thinking that pin 40 should be the 11th wire (counting from the pin 50 end)?

     

    The sixth wire would as I see it be pin 45 (ground). That could explain why there was no change.

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 11, 2015 10:10 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 11, 2015 10:10 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    So, I cut the 11th wire from the right, and it only makes the clicking sound once. However, when the computer boots to the ? floppy disk screen, the ? doesn't flash, but stays frozen. I can still move the mouse. If I insert a floppy disk, nothing happens. I tried with and without a terminator. I then tried inserting a disk before turning the computer on, and then the computer would boot from the disk, and the hard drive would still appear on the desktop, in working order. (I could still load TeachText.) I can still repair the wire. The drive and the computer still appear to be functional as usual. Are there any other wires worth cutting, or do you think that the problem is in the drive's PROM, as mentioned in one of your links?

     

    IMG_0023.jpgIMG_0024.jpg

  • by Jan Hedlund,Solvedanswer

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 12, 2015 3:50 AM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 12, 2015 3:50 AM in response to aidancaamano

    >I tried with and without a terminator.

     

    Since the drive apparently has its own termination through the installed resistor packs, it may be best to stay with that (in this case, do not attach an external terminator, or you would get double termination).

     

    >The drive and the computer still appear to be functional as usual.

     

    For the future, you may want to use the drive as an external, but not bootable, hard drive for the Plus (with the drive's ribbon cable connections restored to original). BTW, do you still have the Micronet enclosure (Macintosh Plus SCSI Hard Drive Problem) without its hard drive? If so, it could possibly be used to carry out boot tests with yet another hard drive (preferably one with good documentation, and a "disable unit attention" jumper).

     

    >Are there any other wires worth cutting,

     

    The problem with the WDS-3160 drive is that it does not have many jumper options, and we only have access to very limited documentation about settings and features. It is more or less all guesswork. So, I cannot really suggest anything here.

     

    >do you think that the problem is in the drive's PROM,

     

    The drive as such appears to be OK. It is only that it does not work well with the Plus, which seems to be caused by limitations in that computer's ability to handle certain aspects of SCSI. I do not think it would be worth the cost or time to try to locate software that possibly could alter the drive's settings. It is probably better to use the WDS-3160 as it is (without bootability) with the Plus, or perhaps fully functional with another pre-1998 Macintosh computer.

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 12, 2015 11:05 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 12, 2015 11:05 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Unfortunately, I do not still have the old drive enclosure. However, I would not have to locate software, since I can just find disk images on the internet, and then send it to http://www.rescuemyclassicmac.com/ so that I could get it on a custom disk. Regardless, I will fix the wires, and restore it to how it was before. One more thing, how can I use multifinder on the Hard Drive if it isn't the startup disk? None of the floppy disks seem to have that feature. I just want to take advantage of all of the features of a full install of system 6.0.8.

     

    Note: I can trick the computer into thinking that the Hard Drive is the startup disk simply by opening an application on it, then quitting.

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 13, 2015 2:08 AM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 13, 2015 2:08 AM in response to aidancaamano

    Having access to a second older Macintosh computer helps. Look for an approx. 1991-1997 model (with a built-in floppy drive for both 800K and 1.44 MB, preferably with a CD-ROM drive and Ethernet, maybe running something like System 7.5.x). You should be able to find a relatively inexpensive machine. This could be a desktop computer or a PowerBook. For example, a PowerBook 520/520c/540/540c (with an added external CD-ROM drive) could be a good choice. A suitable computer would act as a bridge machine, making it possible to directly download Mac files from the Internet, or to receive transferred files downloaded by a more modern computer. Thus you could create your own 800K floppies from disk images.

     

    Running a Macintosh Plus from a system on a floppy (800K) can be a challenge, but with an external floppy drive, an external hard drive (albeit not bootable in this case), and perhaps a RAM disk application, there are many possibilities (the page http://www.euronet.nl/users/mvdk/floppydriven.html might give you some ideas).

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 13, 2015 12:20 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 13, 2015 12:20 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Actually, I figured out how to use Multifinder on the hard disk. I simply have to set the floppy to startup with Multifinder, then open an application on the hard disk, and close it. I can now eject the startup disk, and the computer thinks that the hard drive is the startup disk. However, there is another problem. After about 30 seconds, or when I open a brand new window, the mouse ceases to move. The button is still responsive, and I can still use the keyboard. Since there is no command to shut the computer down, I have to flip the switch in the back. In short, Multifinder freezes my mouse. This problem does not happen when multifinder is not active. Is there a way to turn on multifinder once the computer has already booted?

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 13, 2015 10:36 PM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 13, 2015 10:36 PM in response to aidancaamano

    Normally, when using a hard drive as a boot disk, you would select MultiFinder in a dialogue box and then restart.

     

    According to The Macintosh Bible, edited by Darcy Di Nucci et al., 5th Edition (ISBN 1-56609-140-3), page 37, one could open the System Folder, hold down the two keys Option and Command(Apple), and double-click on the MultiFinder icon. That would start MultiFinder without restarting the computer. I tested this, using only a System 6.0.8 Utilities 1 floppy disk (800K) with an added TeachText application, and it seems to work as intended. When you restart, it is back to the normal Finder.

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