aidancaamano

Q: Micronet SCSI Utility Problem

I have recently obtained an Apple HD20SC with its drive replaced with an IBM 153 MB drive. At first, the drive wouldn't mount on my System 6 Desktop when I booted from a disk. I would have to use the Micronet SCSI Utility to mount it manually. I used the Micronet SCSI Utility to create two partitions, 0 and 1. 0 was just a filler partition, with 1 megabyte, while 1 was 152 megabytes. Partition 1 mounted, so I put a system folder on it. I then tried to boot from the drive, but my Macintosh Plus stayed on the ? Floppy Disk Screen. No X. I then tried to format the drive with interleave 3. (I find it strange that the interleaves were in 1, 2, 3, as opposed to , 1:1, 2:1, 3:1, etc.) When I tried to do that, I got a Sense Key = 5, Error Type 36. Formatting Failed. I tried formatting in every interleave, 1-7, but only interleave 1 would work. I know that the Macintosh Plus requires interleave 3 or 3:1. The Micronet SCSI Utility will not let me do that. The Drive is terminated properly, with the terminator in the upper SCSI port on the drive, and the SCSI Cable on the lower port. What is going wrong? Should I use the Apple HD SC setup instead? Do I need to have a battery installed? I have a Utilities Disk with the Apple HD SC setup on it coming in the mail, along with a replacement battery.

 

Maybe it won't boot because I have no proper way to install System 6, other than dragging the system folder on to the hard drive icon on the desktop.

Macintosh Plus 1MB, Mac OS 8.6 or Earlier, Most likely converted from a 128k or 512k

Posted on Jul 26, 2015 7:50 PM

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Q: Micronet SCSI Utility Problem

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  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 13, 2015 10:54 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 13, 2015 10:54 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Correction

    >The Macintosh Bible, edited by Darcy Di Nucci et al., 5th Edition (ISBN 1-56609-140-3)

    The Macintosh Bible, edited by Darcy DiNucci et al., 5th Edition (ISBN 1-56609-140-3)

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 13, 2015 11:36 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
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    Aug 13, 2015 11:36 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    What about the mouse freezing problem? Every time I enable Multifinder, the mouse freezes within the next 30 seconds, usually after opening a new window. The button is still responsive (I can still click), as well as the keyboard, but the mouse refuses to move. What could cause this? (This only happens when Multifinder is enabled.)

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 14, 2015 12:32 AM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 14, 2015 12:32 AM in response to aidancaamano

    Does this happen when you are attempting to use files on the hard disk?

     

    What about if you try exactly the same setup as I used (without an external hard drive, nor an external floppy drive)? That is, only a Utilities 1 floppy (System 6.0.8, 800K, Disk 2 of 4), onto which TeachText (for example, from the System Tools floppy) has been copied. Switch off the computer, disconnect any external drives. Boot from the floppy. Open the System Folder. Hold down the Option and Command keys, and double-click on the MultiFinder to start it. Still a freeze?

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 14, 2015 12:58 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
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    Aug 14, 2015 12:58 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

    I tried that, and it still froze, this time only seconds after enabling it, just like before. (I didn't copy TeachText to it) I should also mention that as soon as the mouse freezes, the screen starts to display extremely faint flickering dashes in some areas, which looked like some sort of electronic noise. (Interference) They were barely noticeable.  Once again, the computer did not freeze, and I could even close the finder window, since the pointer was where the close box was right when it froze.

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 14, 2015 9:00 AM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 14, 2015 9:00 AM in response to aidancaamano

    During the test with the Utilities 1 floppy, were all ports free (no cables, except for keyboard, mouse and power)?

     

    Since the mouse pointer movement problem only appears when MultiFinder is active, one would suspect software, but we should perhaps not rule out some strange effects from/on hardware. You may want to try a PRAM reset to begin with.

     

    Normally, one would also make a fresh floppy from a disk image, and carry out a new test, but I do not know if you can do this yet. In principle, you could already now use the available equipment (Macintosh Plus, external hard drive, external floppy drive) under System 6.0.8 to run the Disk Copy 4.2 application, in order to create properly sector-copied 800K floppies from disk images. The problem is to get files to the Plus (null-modem, modem-to-modem and Zip drives are three possibilities)

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 14, 2015 11:32 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 14, 2015 11:32 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Addendum

     

    Just to expand a bit on transfer options. You really do not need much more than a small terminal emulation program with file transfer capabilities on the Plus (the approx. 50K program FreeTerm 2.0 from http://archive.info-mac.org/_Communication/_Terminal/ is merely one example). If not already available, that first program would have to be transferred on an 800K floppy.

     

    I noticed that you have a couple of G3 computers. At least one of them can probably still run Mac OS 8.x or 9.x. Maybe you have ClarisWorks/AppleWorks, which has a communications section (other programs can be used as well). Then you would have the basic hardware and software on that side.

     

    A modem-to-modem transfer over the phone lines would require an external serial modem for the Plus (just about any old PC-style modem with a DB-25F port will do), with a Macintosh modem cable (DB-25M to MiniDIN-8M) to be connected to the Modem port of the computer. The G3 computer should have a built-in modem.

     

    A local modem-to modem transfer (not over the phone lines) would normally require a simple line simulator (in principle, a slightly modified RJ-11 to RJ-11 cable with a 9 V battery and a 330 ohm resistor) between the modems.

     

    A null-modem transfer would require a USB-to-serial adapter (with a DB-9M serial port) for the G3 computer. The null-modem link could consist of a standard PC-style DB-9F to DB-25F null-modem cable, combined with a Macintosh (DB-25M to MiniDIN-8M) modem cable.

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 14, 2015 12:26 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
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    Aug 14, 2015 12:26 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    First of all, yes, when I ran the first test, I disconnected the printer, SCSI drive, and External Floppy Drive. (The only things connected were the Mouse, Keyboard, and Power.) Then, I tried copying my system 6 startup disk to another disk using Disk Copy 4.2, and the mouse pointer still froze after enabling Multifinder on this new disk. I do not have a Macintosh Plus compatible modem, although the iMac G3 does have Appleworks installed. I am getting a new Macintosh mouse, though, since mine has a slightly unresponsive mouse button. Also, the same problem happens when I open Multifinder on the SCSI drive, after tricking the computer into thinking that it is the Startup Disk.

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 15, 2015 9:54 PM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 15, 2015 9:54 PM in response to aidancaamano

    >I tried copying my system 6 startup disk to another disk using Disk Copy 4.2, and the mouse pointer still froze after enabling Multifinder on this new disk.

     

    If the Multifinder file in the System Folder was damaged for some reason (we do not know that, though), that problem would have been transferred to the new floppy. In order to avoid a possible error like that, one would make a new floppy directly from an original disk image.

     

    The reason for mentioning a PRAM reset was that certain mouse-related settings were stored in PRAM, at least for some Macintosh computers. If a PRAM reset has any effect whatsoever in this case is unclear.

     

    >I do not have a Macintosh Plus compatible modem

     

    It does not have to be a modem that is compatible in a special way. A typical external serial modem had a DB-25F port, and could work with both Macs and PCs. For a Mac, the only requirement was a modem cable DB-25M to MiniDIN-8M. You could use almost any 2400 bps to 57600 bps modem (early Macs may work at a reduced speed, needing only a corresponding protocol and port speed software setting). Since relatively few people are using dial-up today, there is little demand for older modems, so you may even find someone who is willing to give one away.

     

    >the same problem happens when I open Multifinder on the SCSI drive

     

    Did the Multifinder file there come from the same floppy? Also, I am not quite sure about the "tricking the computer into thinking that it is the Startup Disk" part.

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 15, 2015 9:54 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 15, 2015 9:54 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    The Multifinder file is from the same floppy, which is the Utilities 1 Disk that came with the four-disk installer on www.rescuemyclassicmac.com.

     

    Oddly enough, this same mouse freezing problem happens when I click on "Let me use my Macintosh" on one of my "A Guided Tour of Macintosh" disks. Where could I find an original disk image? Is there any way to check for damage on the Multifinder file?

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 15, 2015 10:26 PM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 15, 2015 10:26 PM in response to aidancaamano

    >Oddly enough, this same mouse freezing problem happens when I click on "Let me use my Macintosh" on one of my "A Guided Tour of Macintosh" disks.

     

    This appears to be unrelated to MultiFinder, but the as long as the Multifinder file is installed we do not know for sure.

     

    >Where could I find an original disk image?

     

    Is the Utlities 1 disk (http://download.info.apple.com/Apple_Support_Area/Apple_Software_Updates/English -North_American/Macintosh/System/Older_System/System_6.0.x/SSW_6.0.8-800k_Disk2o f4.sea.bin) the one that you are looking for?

     

    >Is there any way to check for damage on the Multifinder file?

     

    To begin with, have you tried to verify the floppy using Disk First Aid? However, that does not necessarily mean that you detect a problem with the file itself. If you suspect a fault, the best way is usually to replace the file with a known-good one.

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 17, 2015 4:26 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 17, 2015 4:26 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    I used Disk First Aid, and found no problems with any of the disks with MultiFinder on it. Since this mouse freezing is unrelated to the Hard Drive or any SCSI Utilities, it appears that this thread should be locked, since this is a software issue, not a hardware issue. I have given up on trying to make the SCSI Drive bootable, and have been using the trick mentioned earlier to make the computer think that the hard drive is the startup disk. The Drive probably will never be a boot drive for this computer, since the drive is incompatible as a boot device, but works great as an external hard drive. Before this thread gets closed, what suggestions do you have for extra software? Which programs would be useful?

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 17, 2015 11:11 PM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 17, 2015 11:11 PM in response to aidancaamano

    >what suggestions do you have for extra software? Which programs would be useful?

     

    aidancaamano,

     

    A basic set of utilities could be Disk Copy 4.2 (which you already have), a RAM disk application (not absolutely necessary, since you have an external floppy drive and a non-bootable SCSI hard drive), StuffIt Expander and a terminal emulation program. That would allow you to receive and handle files downloaded via a more modern computer. Depending upon your areas of interest, you should then be able to find a number of other useful applications at web sites like http://archive.info-mac.org/, http://www.euronet.nl/users/mvdk/system_6_heaven.html and http://www.knubbelmac.de/ (try a Google translation for the latter, if needed). Good luck!

     

    Jan

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 18, 2015 11:35 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 18, 2015 11:35 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Is MacTerminal a good terminal program? Will an Apple Personal Modem work? http://www.ebay.com/itm/Vintage-Genuine-Apple-Personal-Modem-Model-A9M0304-/1617 85196051?hash=item25ab262e13

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 18, 2015 1:26 PM in response to aidancaamano
    Level 6 (9,869 points)
    Aug 18, 2015 1:26 PM in response to aidancaamano

    The Apple Personal Modem that you are referring to appears to be a 300/1200 bps modem. The modem looks nice, and could probably be made to work with a Macintosh Plus (with the correct cable), but it will be very slow.

     

    You should be able to find several relatively inexpensive 14.4 kbps, 28.8 kbps, 33.6 kbps and 56 kbps serial modems (MultiTech ZDX, US Robotics Sportster, US Robotics Courier, and many more). If you choose one of these (normally, with a DB-25F port), do not forget to buy a Macintosh modem cable (DB-25M to MiniDIN-8M). Modems with the highest speeds are not really necessary (because of Macintosh Plus limitations), but they can be used without a problem with an appropriate port speed setting.

     

    MacTerminal is an early terminal emulator. You may also want to test other programs (for example, FreeTerm 2.0 and Terminal 2.2, http://archive.info-mac.org/_Communication/_Terminal/).

  • by aidancaamano,

    aidancaamano aidancaamano Aug 20, 2015 4:33 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 20, 2015 4:33 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Good News, I got the mouse to stop freezing in Multifinder by setting the RAM Cache to 128k. Previously, it was at 32k.

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