HuntsMan75

Q: Replace Hard Drive with SSD

System Info: MacBook Pro running OS X 10.9, mid 2009, 13", PN MB991LL/A (2.53 GHz), 8GB RAM

 

I started having some problems with my system, mainly slow downs, especially when using Safari. I got a copy of Scannerz (http://scsc-online.com/Scannerz.html) and it confirmed drive platter damage. I know some of these units are supposed to have cable problems but Scannerz tested that too and found no problems with the cable, so this is a bonafide drive problem (it's 6 years old, you know).

 

I'd like to go ahead and replace it with an SSD and have some questions:

 

  1. Maybe I'm getting models mixed up but I seem to remember something about a drive thermal sensor on Apples not being compatible with generic drives. I know I read that somewhere I just don't remember where?
  2. I assume, if #1 above isn't a problem, that I can basically use any SATA SSD. Now I know I should get the fastest interface possible, but are there any caveats or incompatibilities that some brands of SSDs may present?
  3. What about stuff like trim and wear leveling. WIll this be in a driver for the SSD or does the OS take care of it automatically?
  4. Are there any brands/models to stay away from?
  5. Should I replace the cable too? I've heard they can get bad.

 

Thanks in advance.

MacBook Pro, OS X Mavericks (10.9.5)

Posted on Apr 4, 2015 12:06 PM

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Q: Replace Hard Drive with SSD

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  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Jul 25, 2015 3:56 PM in response to MrWilliams201
    Level 9 (51,196 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 25, 2015 3:56 PM in response to MrWilliams201

    I am referring to the Kext signing restriction that only existed in 10.10.1 .2 and .3.

     

    Trim has long term effect, look at it for a year, then you may see something.

  • by ZV137,

    ZV137 ZV137 Jul 26, 2015 12:10 PM in response to MrWilliams201
    Level 1 (54 points)
    Jul 26, 2015 12:10 PM in response to MrWilliams201

    TRIM isn't a requirement, it's supposed to be a performance enhancement.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Jul 26, 2015 12:18 PM in response to ZV137
    Level 9 (51,196 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 26, 2015 12:18 PM in response to ZV137

    It's part of a garbage collection routine.

  • by R.K.Orion,

    R.K.Orion R.K.Orion Jul 28, 2015 11:39 AM in response to ZV137
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Jul 28, 2015 11:39 AM in response to ZV137

    Does anyone know anything about the so called SSD sudden death syndrome? I'm sort of curious if correlation exists between the use of TRIM or third party stuff being used on such drives. Are there any signs or symptoms that would give a user a warning that such an event was about to occur?

  • by FatMac>MacPro,

    FatMac>MacPro FatMac>MacPro Jul 28, 2015 11:53 AM in response to R.K.Orion
    Level 5 (4,866 points)
    Jul 28, 2015 11:53 AM in response to R.K.Orion

    R.K.Orion wrote:

     

    Does anyone know anything about the so called SSD sudden death syndrome? I'm sort of curious if correlation exists between the use of TRIM or third party stuff being used on such drives...

    The only thing I've seen on that is here and says:

     

    "If an SSD has been subjected to a transient or a sudden power outage, it may be suffering from SSD "sudden death" syndrome. Depending on the cause of the problem, this may actually completely destroy the SSD and all its contents, or the SSD may, almost miraculously, come back to life after sitting in an idle state for a while. We anticipate this being more of a problem on desktop units since laptops have batteries that will prevent complete power loss. Transients getting into a system can destroy anything, not just SSDs. If an SSD experiences this, it may look to the user like a new SSD was installed (unformatted, without data) or if the damage is severe enough, it may not be visible to the system."

     

    So running a desktop computer with a UPS or keeping the battery charged on a laptop should minimize the problem. TRIM wouldn't have anything to do with it.

  • by ZV137,

    ZV137 ZV137 Aug 13, 2015 11:19 AM in response to R.K.Orion
    Level 1 (54 points)
    Aug 13, 2015 11:19 AM in response to R.K.Orion

    If you see stuff like that on the web check the date of the posts. Several years ago when SSDs were still new there were a fair number of an odd assortment of problems including wiping itself out, slowing to a crawl (REALLY old SSDs with no GC/TRIM) and losing data, but that's really at least, and I mean least 3 years ago. Sudden death from power loss appears to be real, but only seems to occur after power loss.

     

    There's always a degee of risk with any newer technology. Just make sure it's got a backup, and make sure the backup drive is good.

  • by MrWilliams201,

    MrWilliams201 MrWilliams201 Aug 17, 2015 11:25 AM in response to ZV137
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Aug 17, 2015 11:25 AM in response to ZV137

    Might I be safe in assuming that if I had an SSD in an external enclosure connected to a system and if I unmounted it and then pulled the plug it would be nearly the same thing as a sudden power out? I'm assuming the unit is still receiving power as long as it's connected to the unit.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 17, 2015 11:43 AM in response to MrWilliams201
    Level 9 (51,196 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 17, 2015 11:43 AM in response to MrWilliams201

    If the external enclosure gets its power from the USB bus and you unplug it, it would not be "nearly the same as a sudden power out". It is a "sudden power out"  exactly, not nearly.

     

    Just like a hairdryer, or a Dentists drill.

  • by MrWilliams201,

    MrWilliams201 MrWilliams201 Aug 20, 2015 11:28 AM in response to Csound1
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Aug 20, 2015 11:28 AM in response to Csound1

    I guess so. Re-reading this report:

     

    https://www.usenix.org/system/files/conference/fast13/fast13-final80.pdf

     

    it appears all the SSDs that failed did so if the power was cut during block updates. If the USB is ejected then removed I suppose it shouldn't be a problem.

     

    The reason that became a concern for me was because I put together a "cheap" Fusion drive using a SanDisk SSD (64G) plus an old hard drive so I could test an El Capitan beta on it. It dawned on me that when I'd pull it out of the system I was ejecting the drives then disconnecting them with the power still on.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 20, 2015 4:16 PM in response to MrWilliams201
    Level 9 (51,196 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 20, 2015 4:16 PM in response to MrWilliams201

    There are very few electrically powered devices that benefit from SPR (sudden power removal) SSD's are just one of them that don't. If SPR is a real problem with your setup don't use SSD's, and don't use HDD's either, it's bad for them too.

  • by MrWilliams201,

    MrWilliams201 MrWilliams201 Aug 24, 2015 11:03 AM in response to Csound1
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Aug 24, 2015 11:03 AM in response to Csound1

    My last post was deleted because I mentioned a beta release on it so here it is again without any mention of the beta:

     

     

    It's a temporary setup anyway. If the drive is ejected it's no longer communicating with the system and block updates can't occur I can't see how an SSD could get damaged. The same is true for HDDs. If a drive is ejected it shouldn't be receiving any OS updates or disk activity at all after ejected.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 24, 2015 11:05 AM in response to MrWilliams201
    Level 9 (51,196 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 24, 2015 11:05 AM in response to MrWilliams201

    Clearly you should continue in this fashion, happily it wont affect anyone else.

  • by R.K.Orion,

    R.K.Orion R.K.Orion Aug 25, 2015 12:38 AM in response to MrWilliams201
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Aug 25, 2015 12:38 AM in response to MrWilliams201

    The referenced article doesn't really make it clear how they're inducing the faults. Showing a picture of a test circuit is hardly a schematic diagram. That problem could be caused in one way or another by the interaction of the circuit itself. It could be caused by transients that may be caused by the test circuit that are unique to that circuit and not indicative of the real world.

     

    How often do you really, and I mean REALLY hear about an SSD blowing itself up or losing all it's data. I remember some OCZ's doing that about 3 or 4 years ago but I think they got the problem fixed. Some of this stuff you get on the internet is shear nonsense. Remember, threats sell, and a lot of these "info" web sites rely on advertising revenue for income. How do you attract viewers? Tell someone they're in imminent danger.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 25, 2015 6:04 AM in response to R.K.Orion
    Level 9 (51,196 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 25, 2015 6:04 AM in response to R.K.Orion

    MrWilliams is the target market for fear mongers, he's perfect.

  • by MrWilliams201,

    MrWilliams201 MrWilliams201 Aug 25, 2015 10:47 AM in response to R.K.Orion
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Aug 25, 2015 10:47 AM in response to R.K.Orion

    R.K.Orion wrote:

     

    The referenced article doesn't really make it clear how they're inducing the faults. Showing a picture of a test circuit is hardly a schematic diagram. That problem could be caused in one way or another by the interaction of the circuit itself. It could be caused by transients that may be caused by the test circuit that are unique to that circuit and not indicative of the real world.

     

    How often do you really, and I mean REALLY hear about an SSD blowing itself up or losing all it's data. I remember some OCZ's doing that about 3 or 4 years ago but I think they got the problem fixed. Some of this stuff you get on the internet is shear nonsense. Remember, threats sell, and a lot of these "info" web sites rely on advertising revenue for income. How do you attract viewers? Tell someone they're in imminent danger.

     

    Valid points, all of them. Especially the point about the circuit being undefined. However, there are a fair number of reports and articles on the problem, some new and some not so new. Just do a Google for "SSD sudden data loss" and you'll see what I mean, and these aren't all "ad" driven sites. Some examples:

     

    http://www.cactus-tech.com/en/resources/blog/details/solid-state-drive-ssd-unexp ected-power-loss-concerns-and-solutions

    http://www.storagesearch.com/ssd-power-going-down.html

    http://www.storage-switzerland.com/Articles/Entries/2013/4/10_Power_Failure_and_ Flash_Storage.html

    http://superuser.com/questions/710394/ssd-stopped-working-suddenly-any-chance-of -data-recovery

     

    To list but a few.

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