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Q: iTunes asking for backup password???

I am upgrading my iphone 4 to iOS 5. I backed up my phone (via iTunes 10.5) and downloaded and installed iOS 5. I am now going through the setup process and it is at the "Restore from iTunes Backup" step. I connect to iTunes and iTunes is prompting me for a password to "unlock your iPhone backup file." No I did not encrypt the iPhone backup, nor is it or was it checked in iTunes. I have tried my iTunes password, my 4 digit unlock code for the iPhone, and several other passwords. When I did the backup an hour ago I was not asked for a password. I am at a loss as to what it is.

iPhone 4

Posted on Oct 12, 2011 1:11 PM

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Q: iTunes asking for backup password???

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  • by jared275,

    jared275 jared275 Aug 25, 2015 2:07 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 25, 2015 2:07 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul

    I just want to turn off that encrypt local backup checkbox ...

    "You can, but you need the password to do so (it would be pointless to have a password if it wasn't needed to access your backup)."

     

    You are right, and you also don't get it.  I obviously do not want me or anyone to be able to access my encrypted local backup without a password.  However, I wish to make a future backup that is not encrypted.  Computer logic 101 dictates that I should be able to delete whatever encrypted local backup may exist and create a non-encrypted local backup.  Apple logic 101?  Still waiting for the handbook on that.

     

    jared275 wrote:

     

    I don't care about the prior backup.

    "In that case, restore your iPhone and don't try to load the (encrypted) backup.  Or without having to restore, change your process to backup to iCloud instead of your computer."

     

    I don't want to restore my iPad.  That scares me.  It says that it only backed up the most important data to iCloud.  It also takes time, and how am I supposed to know if it will allow me to backup unencrypted to my computer?  .... Ok I read the rest of the troubleshooting guide and apparently I have to spend a bunch of time, and lose whatever data is deemed unimportant in order to turn this checkbox relating to local computer backups off.  I am not impressed. 

     

    I think I will wait a little bit longer to see if Apple changes their ways before I accept Apple's suckerpunch and lose my unimportant data, or resort to the world of jailbreaking and password recovery hacking tools.

  • by jared275,

    jared275 jared275 Aug 25, 2015 2:12 PM in response to gail from maine
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 25, 2015 2:12 PM in response to gail from maine

    PS - Thanks for posting the guide, Gail.

     

    (At least there is an (inconvenient, data loss) answer in there for me if I really want it, to restore from iCloud.)

     

    There is so much stress in life sometimes -- I figured I would vent and flip out over a checkbox instead of something more important

  • by rockmyplimsoul,

    rockmyplimsoul rockmyplimsoul Aug 25, 2015 2:24 PM in response to jared275
    Level 5 (7,165 points)
    iTunes
    Aug 25, 2015 2:24 PM in response to jared275

    jared275 wrote:


    Computer logic 101 dictates that I should be able to delete whatever encrypted local backup may exist and create a non-encrypted local backup.

    That demonstrates that you don't get it ... if I had access to your stuff and wanted to unencrypt your backup, and all I had to do was delete the existing (encrypted) backup and make a new (unencrypted) one from what's on your iPhone, that would completely defeat the purpose of passwords and encryption.  Think about what you're proposing and you'll see the flaw in your logic.

     

    jared275 wrote:

     

    I don't want to restore my iPad.  That scares me.  It says that it only backed up the most important data to iCloud.  It also takes time, and how am I supposed to know if it will allow me to backup unencrypted to my computer?  .... Ok I read the rest of the troubleshooting guide and apparently I have to spend a bunch of time, and lose whatever data is deemed unimportant in order to turn this checkbox relating to local computer backups off.  I am not impressed. 

    Yes, restoring your device takes time and not loading a backup means losing information that was in your encrypted backup. Backing up to iCloud is a viable alternative to a local backup and does not require restoring, but the difference in what is backed up in iCloud vs. locally is minimal.  Apple used to document what was different but that article has since changed, so perhaps the backup content is identical now.

     

    Yes these are inconveniences, but since you set the password and don't remember it, and the encryption process is doing what its supposed to do, I fail to see how this is Apple's fault or responsibility to give you an out.  Personally I'm glad that the system is solid and that there are no workarounds to get at my information.

  • by jared275,

    jared275 jared275 Aug 25, 2015 3:13 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 25, 2015 3:13 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul

    "That demonstrates that you don't get it ... if I had access to your stuff and wanted to unencrypt your backup, and all I had to do was delete the existing (encrypted) backup and make a new (unencrypted) one from what's on your iPhone, that would completely defeat the purpose of passwords and encryption.  Think about what you're proposing and you'll see the flaw in your logic."


    In your example here, you have access to my iPhone.  In the normal computer world, if you had access to my device, then you should be able to access all the data on it.  It would be my responsibility to either encrypt the device to make it inaccessible, or else make sure it doesn't fall into your hands.


    The Apple iTunes user interface makes no mention that it is making my device inaccessible when I encrypt a local backup stored on my computer, therefore Apple is clearly in the wrong, UX-wise.


    In the normal computer world, if I make a backup of something, and encrypt that backup, that does not lock me out of whatever I encrypted.  That would be bizarre.  Yet here we are.



  • by rockmyplimsoul,

    rockmyplimsoul rockmyplimsoul Aug 25, 2015 5:05 PM in response to jared275
    Level 5 (7,165 points)
    iTunes
    Aug 25, 2015 5:05 PM in response to jared275

    jared275 wrote:


    In the normal computer world, if you had access to my device, then you should be able to access all the data on it. 

    If I had your device there's no way I'm getting any information out of it without your passcode or finger.  Sure there are tools out there to hack into the device, but not available to the average dirtbag.  Without your passcode or fingerprint, no one's getting in.  However, your computer may or may not have the same level of access restriction, hence the option to encrypt the computer's copy of your backup.

     

    jared275 wrote:

     

    The Apple iTunes user interface makes no mention that it is making my device inaccessible when I encrypt a local backup stored on my computer, therefore Apple is clearly in the wrong, UX-wise.


    In the normal computer world, if I make a backup of something, and encrypt that backup, that does not lock me out of whatever I encrypted.  That would be bizarre.  Yet here we are.

    Apple doesn't need to mention anything because it is quite evident that applying encryption requires you to remember the password (hence the requirement to verify the password you chose when you set it).

     

    You seem to be confused ... encrypting your backup does not make your device inaccessible or locked out for normal use.  The only time you're "locked out" is if you erase your device for some reason, then try to install the encrypted backup without knowing the password.  Other than that you have free use of your device with or without your backup's password.

     

    Your computer analogy does not apply to this scenario at all ... name a situation "in the normal computer world" where if you password-protect some information that you still have the ability to access the same (protected) information without the password.  In some computer situations there are password recovery options, but not in situations where you, the user, assign and administer the password yourself.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 25, 2015 5:11 PM in response to jared275
    Level 9 (50,721 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 25, 2015 5:11 PM in response to jared275

    jared275 wrote:

     

    "That demonstrates that you don't get it ...

    Get what, that it is unnecessary to actually remember a password after you set it. Get real.

  • by Lawrence Finch,

    Lawrence Finch Lawrence Finch Aug 25, 2015 5:14 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul
    Level 8 (38,039 points)
    Mac OS X
    Aug 25, 2015 5:14 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul

    rockmyplimsoul wrote:

     

    jared275 wrote:


    In the normal computer world, if you had access to my device, then you should be able to access all the data on it. 

    If I had your device there's no way I'm getting any information out of it without your passcode or finger.  Sure there are tools out there to hack into the device

    Actually, since iOS 7, there are no tools to hack into an iPhone. Which has the FBI and CIA upset, and some congresscritters want to pass laws making it illegal to sell unhackable devices.

  • by jared275,

    jared275 jared275 Aug 25, 2015 5:37 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 25, 2015 5:37 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul

    If I had your device there's no way I'm getting any information out of it without your passcode or finger.  Sure there are tools out there to hack into the device, but not available to the average dirtbag.  Without your passcode or fingerprint, no one's getting in.  However, your computer may or may not have the same level of access restriction, hence the option to encrypt the computer's copy of your backup.

     

    "However, your computer may or may not have the same level of access restriction" - If you elaborated on this it might lead somewhere.


    I thought I had and I wish I had the option to encrypt the computer's copy of the backup.  That's what I thought I turned on.  However, this option apparently also locks out my ability to create unencrypted backups in the future.  The option does more than one thing, and it doesn't tell me that it is doing the 2nd thing, and it permanently locks me out without giving me any warning.


    Apple doesn't need to mention anything because it is quite evident that applying encryption requires you to remember the password (hence the requirement to verify the password you chose when you set it).

     

    I agree that it is quite evident that applying encryption requires me to remember the password, in order to decrypt whatever I encrypted.  In this case, I was encrypting a local backup on my computer.  I forgot the password and I fully accept that I cannot decrypt the backup (if I still had it).

     

    You seem to be confused ... encrypting your backup does not make your device inaccessible or locked out for normal use.

     

    I am fully aware that I have not been locked out for normal daily use, as I have been using the device daily for years.  I would think that making unencrypted backups is also normal use, and I should not be denied that normal use simply because once upon a time I encrypted a backup on some computer that I might not have anymore.

    Your computer analogy does not apply to this scenario at all ... name a situation "in the normal computer world" where if you password-protect some information that you still have the ability to access the same (protected) information without the password.  In some computer situations there are password recovery options, but not in situations where you, the user, assign and administer the password yourself.

     

    This isn't that complicated.  If I have a server and I create a backup of the server on my local computer, and I encrypt that backup with a password, then my server is not encrypted; only the backup on my local computer is encrypted.  Of course I can't access the backup without the password.  However, my backup software would not encrypt (or cripple) my server without asking me to.  That would be insane.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 25, 2015 5:36 PM in response to jared275
    Level 9 (50,721 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 25, 2015 5:36 PM in response to jared275

    Your iPhone has not been crippled, can you stay in reasonable proximity to the facts?

  • by jared275,

    jared275 jared275 Aug 25, 2015 5:41 PM in response to Csound1
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 25, 2015 5:41 PM in response to Csound1

    Csound1 wrote:

     

    Your iPhone has not been crippled, can you stay in reasonable proximity to the facts?

    My phone (iPad actually) has not been entirely crippled, nor did I claim it was -- I said I have been using it daily for years.  However, it has been crippled in regards to the feature I am trying to use (making backups to my local computer), because Apple did not warn me that my device would be crippled in this way if I happened to some day not remember the password of a local computer backup that I no longer needed.

     

    If backup software for servers crippled servers in any way, without telling the owner of the server, especially if it is was something that was not immediately apparent, the users of the software would rightfully raise a bug report.

  • by Lawrence Finch,

    Lawrence Finch Lawrence Finch Aug 25, 2015 5:46 PM in response to jared275
    Level 8 (38,039 points)
    Mac OS X
    Aug 25, 2015 5:46 PM in response to jared275

    I am confident that servers have competent administrators that understand how security should be implemented. That's why there are tests and certifications for server administrators.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Aug 25, 2015 5:51 PM in response to jared275
    Level 9 (50,721 points)
    Desktops
    Aug 25, 2015 5:51 PM in response to jared275

    You crippled it with your lackadaisical approach to security, it's the boat you built, Now you can sail in it.

  • by rockmyplimsoul,

    rockmyplimsoul rockmyplimsoul Aug 25, 2015 6:13 PM in response to jared275
    Level 5 (7,165 points)
    iTunes
    Aug 25, 2015 6:13 PM in response to jared275

    jared275 wrote:


    However, it has been crippled in regards to the feature I am trying to use (making backups to my local computer), because Apple did not warn me that my device would be crippled in this way if I happened to some day not remember the password of a local computer backup that I no longer needed.

    Encrypting your device's backup does not require your password to initiate another (encrypted) backup ... you are only prompted for your password if (a) you want to turn encryption off, or (b) you go to install the backup back onto your device after erasing it.  You are not prevented from making backups to your computer even if you don't know the password, so how exactly is your device crippled?

     

    You're not telling the whole story here.  So what did you do, change computers?  Change hard drives on your computer?  Delete the (encrypted) backup file? (I'm not sure that would lead to this)  If you're not trying to turn off encryption or install the backup, these are the only things I can think of which may prompt you for the password which you forgot.

  • by jared275,

    jared275 jared275 Aug 25, 2015 6:50 PM in response to Lawrence Finch
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 25, 2015 6:50 PM in response to Lawrence Finch

    Lawrence Finch wrote:

     

    I am confident that servers have competent administrators that understand how security should be implemented. That's why there are tests and certifications for server administrators.

     

    Server backup software works as expected: it doesn't cripple your server when you make an encrypted backup.  You don't even need to prepare for a test or certification to know that!

     

    I am confident that server & PC & every other backup software have competent UI designers that understand that users should not be locked out of device features without warning by doing something as innocuous as making an encrypted backup.  That's why they don't have 20 page forum threads when users discover they are negatively impacted by a hidden "feature".

     

    Unlike Apple, backup software companies are usually too boring to have a cult following.  They just fix misleading user interfaces and move on, instead of living in their own "Apple can do no wrong" bubble for 6 years while the outsiders are infuriated.  How wrong does Apple have to be before any of you will admit that their user interface is misleading and lacks sufficient warnings?

  • by jared275,

    jared275 jared275 Aug 25, 2015 6:55 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Aug 25, 2015 6:55 PM in response to rockmyplimsoul

    Encrypting your device's backup does not require your password to initiate another (encrypted) backup ... you are only prompted for your password if (a) you want to turn encryption off, or (b) you go to install the backup back onto your device after erasing it.  You arenot prevented from making backups to your computer even if you don't know the password, so how exactly is your device crippled?

    I am prevented from making unencrypted backups to my computer, and I am also prevented from making encrypted backups to my computer using a new password.

     

    You're not telling the whole story here.  So what did you do, change computers?  Change hard drives on your computer?  Delete the (encrypted) backup file? (I'm not sure that would lead to this)  If you're not trying to turn off encryption or install the backup, these are the only things I can think of which may prompt you for the password which you forgot.

    I don't know what happened to the backup file.  I think I probably reinstalled my Windows since I made it.  I may have also deleted it once to save disk space.

     

    Normally, the only thing that should require a password after encrypting something is when you want to decrypt it.  I don't want to decrypt it, yet it still wants the password from me.

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