Limnos

Q: Multiboot drive use recommendations

Hardware:  Late 2008 MacBook Aluminum with 8GB RAM. About to upgrade drive to 1TB HGST 7200 rpm.  Will mostly be used in clamshell mode.

 

I plan on mostly using Snow Leopard with this computer. However, I want dual boot capability with Mavericks which I need for special tasks (e.g. configuring our printer).  The current drive has Mavericks on a partition which I can clone. The main issue is the data files (mostly videos, music, photos [not in iPhoto]), many of which I am likely to want to use when booted to either OS. In the past I have resolved this kind of issue on other computers by keeping data on a separate drive with no ownership which in the past has gotten around file permissions issues.  My initial thought for this new drive was something like 100GB partition for each OS and applications plus wiggle room, then data on a separate partition.  However, I was reading this topic Changing size of two partitions which recommends not keeping data on a separate partition because of drive optimization strategies done by the OS to both speed up and minimize drive wear.

 

Any suggestions on strategies related to keeping data easy to access from either OS, and drive use?  If I make a large 10.6+data and smaller Mavericks only partition is there some way to arrange it so I am not constantly having to change permissions on files?  As I have it now on my present computer (a G4) I even have applications which multiple OSes can use on my data drive so they don't have to be duplicated.

 

Uh, for the moment I don't want a "buy a 250GB SSD, install in place of the Superdrive, partition the SSD, and then use the 1TB for data", solution which I know would probably be the best. I have already just spend $150 in upgrading this older computer this far (which has kind of echoed down the rest of my computer use line and resulted in another $350 of other purchases) and want to give it a rest for the nonce. 

G4 Quicksilver 2x1GHz 250/120GB HDs, Mac OS X (10.4.11), OS9.2.2, iTunes7.5, QT7.4&QTP2.5.1

Posted on Sep 8, 2015 10:01 AM

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Q: Multiboot drive use recommendations

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  • by Drew Reece,

    Drew Reece Drew Reece Sep 8, 2015 10:39 AM in response to Limnos
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    Sep 8, 2015 10:39 AM in response to Limnos

    If you create users with the same User ID the permissions should be fine. There is no need to disable ownership as far as I can see.

     

    For each OS divide the disk up as desired, one partition will contain the home folder to be used in both OS's, so account for that.

    Add an admin user to each OS then add the second 'shared' user. It's User ID should be 502 if you create it in the same order.

     

    On 10.9 edit the user record to point the second users home folder to the other partition. The 'advanced options' section of System Preferences > Users & groups will do that (right click the username). You can remove the old 10.9 home folder for the second account if you really want.

     

     

    NOTE: The 'User ID' is the short string not the 'UUID'. The OS uses the UID for file permissions. I believe the UUID is for network based operations, it should be 'unique in time & space' according to Apple.

     

    I haven't tested this with 10.6 & 10.9, so have backups before you begin. I'm sure you already know about how the Rosetta apps will fail to run on 10.9.

  • by Limnos,

    Limnos Limnos Sep 8, 2015 11:21 AM in response to Drew Reece
    Level 9 (54,272 points)
    Mac OS X
    Sep 8, 2015 11:21 AM in response to Drew Reece

    I am 90% following this, and will probably increase that to 99% once I am actually using that computer (am currently using my G4 with Tiger OS).   One of the problems with the clone Mavericks is I am third in line of family users of that computer so I doubt I'll be 502 (and the account was not created by me with my preferred UserID), but that can probably be resolved.

     

    This seems to be using the same "home" (user) folder for both OSes which is clever but might I end up with problems when it comes to using applications?  There may be some applications which run under both OSes but different versions. However, preferences files are rarely distinguished outwardly application version though they are often version specific. I have done some meddling with getting multiple copies of applications to run under different identities each with their own multiple preferences files so I may get it to work but it is very finicky.  For example, I currently have two copies of VLC running, each with its own preferences file but I had to go in and edit all kinds of files inside the two copies of application and that may not always work.

  • by Drew Reece,

    Drew Reece Drew Reece Sep 8, 2015 12:03 PM in response to Limnos
    Level 5 (7,659 points)
    Notebooks
    Sep 8, 2015 12:03 PM in response to Limnos

    Yes you are right about the potential preference version conflicts with the two OS's. You are probably hacking bundle id's to get 2 sets of preferences? 'Kludgy' but it can work . Just bear in mind how 10.9 is more fussy about signed apps, it will complain unless you can sign the changes (or use the scary 'allow apps from any sources' mode).

     

    OS X server has similar issues for network based user accounts (where users can sign in on any 'bound' Mac), but they can work across multiple OS versions with different app versions. It is something that Apple allows & designed, but it is getting out into the weeds.

     

    You can create a user & set a new User ID, pick a unique one above 500 so it will show in the login window, you want to avoid lower numbers to give the OS breathing room for it's users too. Then you will need to correct the permissions on the home folder. All of this needs to be done via another admin otherwise you pull the rug from under you feet & things get messy, fast . Either chmod & chown to fix them or use the 'resetpassword' tool in recovery mode.

     

    The big concern with a shared home over two OS versions is the iTunes, iPhoto, iMovie libraries etc. The newer versions are often not backwards compatible, so an upgrade will ruin the potential to use the same library in an older OS. Also avoid updating to iCloud drive on 10.9 otherwise it cuts off support on 10.6. iCloud seems to be hostile to people who want to run older & newer hardware at the same time. Obviously iOS/ iTunes syncing will cause more issues - only one OS can be used.

     

    You may want to consider what items you want the same on each OS & restrict yourself to an extra user account that is shared but doesn't have all your critical data. Sorry it's moving away from your initial aim, but it should be safer.

     

    Apologies for the increasing list of caveats. It seems to be getting harder to do this kind of thing as OS X is maturing and depending on more online services.

  • by Limnos,

    Limnos Limnos Sep 8, 2015 2:17 PM in response to Drew Reece
    Level 9 (54,272 points)
    Mac OS X
    Sep 8, 2015 2:17 PM in response to Drew Reece

    I definitely appreciate your assistance. You are right about later OS versions becoming more and more restrictive. That is why I am making my next upgrade from Tiger to Snow Leopard which from what I hear was Apple's last computer-user's OS, versus newer ones which seem to be more the device-users' OSes.

     

    I am not so concerned about the iTunes libraries (and probably the other i-libraries too) as such.  I can make multiple iTunes libraries, one for each version.  However, iTunes will be looking for a preferences file and if it is a common user folder there will be only one of those and will result in conflict.  It's that kind of thing I am mostly worried about with this common user folder solution.

     

    No iOS gadgets, and don't worry about iCloud. I don't even have an iTunes account.  All this is ironic since I'd say 30+k of my points I have earned over in the iTunes for Mac forum.

     

    Yes, hacked bundles. I did it for one or two applications in Tiger OS. Worked for some, not for others.  Don't want to have to depend on it to keep applications separate on this scale..

  • by Drew Reece,

    Drew Reece Drew Reece Sep 8, 2015 5:49 PM in response to Limnos
    Level 5 (7,659 points)
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    Sep 8, 2015 5:49 PM in response to Limnos

    No problem, post back if you want to sound out some other thoughts

     

    All the best,

    D

  • by Limnos,

    Limnos Limnos Sep 10, 2015 7:08 AM in response to Drew Reece
    Level 9 (54,272 points)
    Mac OS X
    Sep 10, 2015 7:08 AM in response to Drew Reece

    Observation: I see if I look at my clone backup of my present Tiger drive and look at my wife's account her default folders are all forbidden, and everything else is read only, but I can see inside all my user folders even though I am booted to a different OS copy.  I am presuming, along the lines of reasoning you presented, since I am using the same user name and UID the OS is allowing me access.

     

    Idea: If I set up my account on each side with same user name and same UID (may have to edit one) I should still get similar access as I do now when I look at my clone backup (?).  If this is indeed the case then my solution may be to make symbolic links for most of my folders back to my primary use partition (the one with Snow Leopard), so when I put a file into my Mavericks "Music" it is really going to the folder in my Snow Leopard user.  The main problem with remapping the whole Home folder was going to be with applications use since I might have different versions for the different OSes and don't want the Applications folders pointing to the same place, nor do I want my user Library to be the same since the preferences files would get messed up.  For those folders which contain things which are not really OS specific I can make symbolic links to the main partition.  Media are obviously the bulkiest files but are not version specific (and for something such as iTunes I can have two libraries sharing media files, and I do not let iTunes organize my media anyway).

  • by Drew Reece,

    Drew Reece Drew Reece Sep 10, 2015 9:41 AM in response to Limnos
    Level 5 (7,659 points)
    Notebooks
    Sep 10, 2015 9:41 AM in response to Limnos

    Username is not as important as the User ID. As you can see if the User ID matches you can read the folder contents.

     

    The filesystem uses the User ID for the primary way to access files, so if your ID matches you get the access - it's alarmingly simple. ACL's are an extra part of the system, but that is mostly an issue in Time Machine where it is used heavily or within network shares.

     

    You can symlink folders within home if you really want. I think it will work, but it has been a while since I did that. My preference is to change the home directory path.

     

    I'm not sure about the preferences, I think I would set it all up & test it. Apps tend to add a few extra settings that don't effect older versions, it's only when major rewrites come out that it gets messy, see if you can run similar versions for most of your apps it may be very few apps that break.

  • by Limnos,

    Limnos Limnos Sep 10, 2015 2:47 PM in response to Drew Reece
    Level 9 (54,272 points)
    Mac OS X
    Sep 10, 2015 2:47 PM in response to Drew Reece

    I am really concerned about messing up user system settings and the such.  I can easily imagine that Mavericks has added a few extra features into some compared to Snow Leopard and that setting something in Mavericks, then setting it in Snow Leopard and returning to Mavericks one might find the system is messed up.   I know iTunes is highly specific in its library files. I don't know how it is with the preferences files.  I definitely do not plan on running the newest iTunes under Snow Leopard but may continue to keep the current iTunes 12 in the Mavericks folder.  That's probably asking for trouble if I use a shared user Library folder.  Unfortunately I can't figure out how to used a shared Home but separate user Libraries, but I can see if you keep the Home folders separate and then redirect everything else to another partition with symbolic links you can do that.