Q: Don't give up on Aperture

Additionally, the Photos app wants to share your existing image library with Aperture

No it doesn't. Once migrated, the Photos Library is quite independent of the Aperture Library. Changes made by one app are not available in the library of the other, for instance.

Again, Apple's only solution for those who object to any of this is to simply not use iCloud Photo Library and completely miss out on all the cloud sync features.

No, as you point out yourself, Apple's solution is multiple libraries. Sync the one you want, don't sync the other(s). If Photos didn't allow multiple libraries you might have a point, but it does and you don't.

They are becoming increasingly indifferent and even hostile to power users and professionals alike

There are more photography applications running on Macs now than ever before, consumer and professional grade. Professionals have never been as well catered for in terms of choice of serious photography applications.  "Power users" is a meaningless term. At most, it seems to denote a self--selecting cohort of people who think they're entitled to more than they paid for.

Terence Devlin wrote:

There are more photography applications running on Macs now than ever before, consumer and professional grade. Professionals have never been as well catered for in terms of choice of serious photography applications.

Again, we have to disagree. While useful, high-powered image editing apps abound we no longer have Aperture as a supported application. In my opinion it was the best DAM image software ever. Nothing else comes close. Lightroom is a puny competitor.

"Power users" is a meaningless term. At most, it seems to denote a self--selecting cohort of people who think they're entitled to more than they paid for.

The term "power users" has been explained to you. It is not meaningless.

And, I don't think anyone ever said they were "entitled to more than they paid for."

I, for one, am willing to pay for professional software that fits my needs.

I'd love to know how it works for you but not for me.  When I double-click on a thumbnail the Edit view looks badly over-exposed.

Chris

  When I double-click on a thumbnail the Edit view looks badly over-exposed.

 

Chris

Do you have onscreen proofing enabled? That seems to be problematic and results in an over exposed image in Edit mode for some of our forum members. I don't see it however, it may depend on the architecture of the mac.

While useful, high-powered image editing apps abound we no longer have Aperture as a supported application. In my opinion it was the best DAM image software ever. Nothing else comes close. Lightroom is a puny competitor

You may well be correct in this, but that does not change my point: more software, and more of it professional software than ever before. That you consider Aperture the best DAM ever is interesting autobiography. Doesn't change the fact that there are alternatives. Obviously everyone's use and needs are different but there are things available in LR as a DAM that Aperture never had, like Smart Previews.

And I know what the definition of "power user" is. There are folks out there who use only Safari and Mail and think they're "power users". And they're right. They are exactly as entitled to call themselves that as you or I am. "Power User" as a title is right up there with 'Best Dad In The World' mugs. I do notice that the term is not often seen on this forum from experienced posters but frequently seen from folks who turn up rarely, usually to complain about something. It often goes "I'm a power user and a brand evangelist and it's all going to H*ll in a hand basket. Apple are doomed, doomed I tell you!' And don't say there's no sense of entitlement behind a phrase like "the very same brand evangelists who helped them achieve their current mainstream success'. It reeks of being owed something. "I used Macs in the 90's when no one did and told all my friends to, now they stop making Aperture... How dare they'

That you are willing to pay for professional software that fits your needs is right and proper. Apple don't make that software anymore. That's their perfect right. You may, as I do, lament this, you may, as I do, wish it was otherwise. But that's what it is. When, 15 months after the decision was announced,  people are still spouting claptrap about Apple abandoning professional and "power users" it's just gets to sounding like whining.

Yes it does. Once the aperture library is migrated to Photos, the two applications share the same library. all edits, however, are stored in the app that created them. So if you apply some edits in Photos you won't see them in Aperture and if you make edits in Aperture you won't see them in Photos. However im pretty sure if you delete the file in either app it will be erased everywhere.

Once you migrate there are no longer separate libraries, only separate records of edits applied to images in he single library. This is done using hard links, and is the only way to avoid a ridiculous duplication of data.

Again, while there are many photo editing apps out there, there are few DAM solutions and nine of them works like Aperture or can hold a candle to it.

Apple's technical implementation is actually quite ingenious. I only take issue with the fact that they dumbed down the feature set and abandoned Aperture users

"You may well be correct in this, but that does not change my point: more software, and more of it professional software than ever before. That you consider Aperture the best DAM ever is interesting autobiography. Doesn't change the fact that there are alternatives."

Sure there are alternatives. Just like if Apple abandoned the iMac and Macbook product lines tomorrow, you would have plenty of suitable alternatives to choose from in the Windows PC industry. I suppose you would accept that scenario without complaint?

And that illustrates my point of view. For me it is even harder to adapt from Aperture to any of the available alternatives than it would be to adapt from OS X to Windows. The former would require a substantial learning curve and development of new workflows while the latter would simply require settling for an inferior platform that more or less works the same.

Yes, léonie, I do.  I tried changing from Adobe to Apple in the profile last night, but I didn't think of switching it off.  I'll give that a go.

Thanks

Chris

Once the aperture library is migrated to Photos, the two applications share the same library. all edits, however, are stored in the app that created them. So if you apply some edits in Photos you won't see them in Aperture and if you make edits in Aperture you won't see them in Photos.

This is true. That's because they are separate libraries managed by separate applications. If you want a better indication of this:

However im pretty sure if you delete the file in either app it will be erased everywhere.

You are incorrect. Delete a file from Aperture, it's still in Photos, delete a file from Photos it's still in Aperture. Try it.

Once you migrate there are no longer separate libraries, only separate records of edits applied to images in he single library. This is done using hard links, and is the only way to avoid a ridiculous duplication of data.

You misunderstand what hard links are, what they do and how this works. The original or masters are stored on the HD. Each library (and they are two distinct entities) point to those masters. But, as both apps are non-destructive and library specific, the changes made in one are unavailable in the other. Deleting from Photos removes the record from Photos. Deleting from Aperture removes the record from Aperture. To actually delete the Master on the HD you need to delete from both.

Sure there are alternatives. Just like if Apple abandoned the iMac and Macbook product lines tomorrow, you would have plenty of suitable alternatives to choose from in the Windows PC industry. I suppose you would accept that scenario without complaint?

 

Of course I'd be unhappy, but what would I do? Still be moaning online on Apple websites 15 months after they announced it? Or just get on with planning my next hardware purchase? If the did remove these product lines then I might have some justification for  saying they were abandoning professional users... but that's what it would take. But it's a poor analogy. Apple are hardware makers.

For me it is even harder to adapt from Aperture to any of the available alternatives than it would be to adapt from OS X to Windows. The former would require a substantial learning curve and development of new workflows while the latter would simply require settling for an inferior platform that more or less works the same.

And for me it's the opposite. So? But again, that's your personal experience, but it's a heck of a leap to go from that to claiming 'They are becoming increasingly indifferent and even hostile to power users and professionals alike'...

Agree, for time being see no sound reason to drop it.

Terence Devlin wrote:

Of course I'd be unhappy, but what would I do? Still be moaning online on Apple websites 15 months after they announced it? Or just get on with planning my next hardware purchase?

I'm still moaning.  The alternatives to Aperture are inferior in ways that matter to me. I tried Lightroom (same as I did years ago when I chose Aperture over it). I tried Capture One and, though I like it overall, the DAM is slow as molassas and the keyword capabilities are a total joke.  Now it looks like the first incompatibilities are showing up between Aperture and Apple's latest OS, El Capitan, and we can be pretty sure they won't be addressed.  It feels like a no-win situation.  Sure, venting about it here solves nothing but it feels good to vent. I just wish there was a suitable replacement.

Folks

Long time Aperture User here - who will continue to use Aperture until forced to another application

I am lucky in that I have a 'spare' machine dedicated to Aperture and as such with no need to update to 10.11 or whatever

Only issue will be if I break my system by buying a new camera that need newer RAW support not covered by 10.10

However:

I have been looking at Photo Supreme as a DAM

http://www.idimager.com/

There are trial versions available

It also comes in a Server version - allowing multiple user access

Does anyone have any experience of using either the single user or server versions?

Brian

PS - I have absolutely no connection with idimager

I love(d) Aperture and will continue to use it... But I am giving Photos a chance and will convert a very large 250,000 frame Library after doing all the prepatory work (changing Projects to Folders and changing my keywords from A>B>C to A-B-C; this will take quite some time and I am seeing if Aperture Exporter can help beyond changing Projects to Folders).

Photos' DAM in the tests I've done looks good once I learned how to work it.

However, I am also using Capture One for RAW processing and Affinity for retouching as Photo's are miserable.

See hereunder for a detailed discussion I had with Leonie:

importing large aperture files into photo

Aperture Exporter; I received feedback from the developer - it was not designed to export Aperture to Photos... but to Lighroom (and it also works with Capture One). The tool for importing to Photos is the one to be found within Photos - and it has the issues discussed in the posts above.

I have been looking at Photo Supreme

The feature that Aperture has, that I cannot live without is the ability to show keywords under the thumbnails in the browser.   Until a couple of years ago iPhoto had this capability also, but Apple removed it.

So far, the only photo editing program I have found that has the ability to show keywords under thumbnails is "Lyn".

I am in no way affiliated with any of the companies above, I am just a customer.