Jonathan Frank2

Q: Problems extending wifi with extreme and two expresses

We have an L shaped apartment and are trying to extend wifi throughout (no mean feat as it has to turn the corner and go down a 37" hall to a back office)

 

the main base in an AirPort Extreme 802.11ac running version 7.7.3. It then connects with airport express 802.11n (2nd gen) running 7.6.5 that is placed above the doorway going into the hall. Halfway down the hall is another airport express 802.11n 2nd gen that for some reason is only running 7.6.4 which it claims is up to date

 

the problem I've been having is that wifi doesn't seem to be extending from the one express through the other.  The Apple TV, iPads, laptops, etc keep connecting to the Express that is further away, not the second closer Express. Thus the signal is pretty weak and slow.

 

When I look at the graphic representation in airport utility it shows the devices in a straight line/chain If I'm by the Extreme.

 

any suggestions on what I can do to improve or troubleshoot would be appreciated (and how can I update the other express's firmware if needed)

Posted on Oct 25, 2015 7:53 PM

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Q: Problems extending wifi with extreme and two expresses

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  • by Bob Timmons,Helpful

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Oct 25, 2015 8:21 PM in response to Jonathan Frank2
    Level 10 (105,067 points)
    Wireless
    Oct 25, 2015 8:21 PM in response to Jonathan Frank2
    the problem I've been having is that wifi doesn't seem to be extending from the one express through the other.

    That would be because Apple's "extend a wireless network" feature will only allow the network to be extended one time, not two times.

     

    When I look at the graphic representation in airport utility it shows the devices in a straight line/chain If I'm by the Extreme.

    You want to see a graphic that would show each Express side by side, with both connecting to the AirPort Extreme. In other words, in order to have each Express extend the network, each Express must connect directly to the main base station....the AirPort Extreme.

     

    Given your layout, it just might not be possible to do what you want using wireless, and you will need to look at least one or more Ethernet connections to extend the network that way.

     

    Don't worry about updating firmware on the Express. A newer Express uses firmware 7.6.5 and the previous version uses 7.6.4, but it is not possible to update a 7.6.4 Express to 7.6.5.

  • by Jonathan Frank2,

    Jonathan Frank2 Jonathan Frank2 Oct 25, 2015 8:09 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (125 points)
    Oct 25, 2015 8:09 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Well that's annoying as its not what I was told when I bought the newer airport express at the Apple Store. I explained what I wanted to to and if that was possible to do and was assured that the expresses would 'chain' to extend. it explains why the signal has been worse versus having just one. As running an Ethernet cable is not that possible given the layout (joys of old New York apartments) I'm at a loss (and irked for being talked into wasting $$$)

  • by Jonathan Frank2,

    Jonathan Frank2 Jonathan Frank2 Oct 25, 2015 8:21 PM in response to Jonathan Frank2
    Level 1 (125 points)
    Oct 25, 2015 8:21 PM in response to Jonathan Frank2

    So...would anything be gained by running an Ethernet cable from the modem to the first express? Thus hopefully using the second express to extend the signal? And the extreme broadcasting where it is for the other area (as it does now?)

  • by Bob Timmons,Helpful

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Oct 25, 2015 8:36 PM in response to Jonathan Frank2
    Level 10 (105,067 points)
    Wireless
    Oct 25, 2015 8:36 PM in response to Jonathan Frank2

    Apple's support document on extending a network clearly explains what we've said.

     

    Unfortunately, it looks like the optimistic salesperson (hopefully this was not a "genius) needs more training. It would have only taken a minute for him/her to pull up some info on the computer to check to make sure that things would work.

    Important note

    If another extended Wi-Fi base station ➋ is placed between the primary Wi-Fi base station ➊ and the extended Wi-Fi base station ➌, the extended Wi-Fi base station ➌ will not allow clients to join it. All extended Wi-Fi base stations must be in direct range of the primary Wi-Fi base station

     

     

    Apple allows 14 days to return a product for exchange or refund, if you need to go that route.


    If you cannot run the Ethernet cable, a pair of Ethernet Over Powerline adapters might be able to send the signal over the AC powerlines. The theory with these devices is that you already have the wiring in place, you just need the adapters.


    In practice though, things do not always work as well as the theory might suggest. So, if you decide to try a pair or two, it would make sense to have a good understanding of the store's return policy before you buy.


    Any computer / electronics superstore will have a selection of adapters from which to choose. Ask for an experienced person pro who is familiar with the products

    for the best option for your needs.


    If you want to continue to try to use wireless to extend, the AirPort Extreme needs to be centrally located so that it would be about the same distance from the Extreme to either AirPort Express.

  • by Jonathan Frank2,

    Jonathan Frank2 Jonathan Frank2 Oct 26, 2015 6:56 AM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (125 points)
    Oct 26, 2015 6:56 AM in response to Bob Timmons

    Thanks for your help on this.  Wish I had found that graphic and explanation when I had searched (the database/documentation for Airports is spotty at best) as it makes perfect sense. Sadly I've had it for too long, but through experimentation discover that I can create a second wifi network with that as the base and should be able to wire it with an ethernet cable to midway down the hall, thus giving stronger wifi for any devices back there.

     

    Disconnecting the one from the 'chain' also improved things as all the devices were connecting to it even though it was further from them

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Oct 26, 2015 8:51 AM in response to Jonathan Frank2
    Level 10 (105,067 points)
    Wireless
    Oct 26, 2015 8:51 AM in response to Jonathan Frank2

    The Apple Support document linked below provides a pretty good overview of the methods to extend a network, although some of the "how to" is out of date, and does not cover the newer version of AirPort Utility 6.x introduced a few years ago.

     

    Wi-Fi base stations: Extending the range of your wireless network by adding additional Wi-Fi base stations - Apple Suppo…

  • by haykong,

    haykong haykong Oct 26, 2015 11:39 PM in response to Jonathan Frank2
    Level 1 (119 points)
    Oct 26, 2015 11:39 PM in response to Jonathan Frank2

    Hi Jonathan,

         

               Apple's current line of Wifi Products won't work for you.   You should consider Open Mesh MR1750 and you might be able to get alway with only 2x MR1750 maybe.... if not then 3... but note...every time when you extend it.. it cuts your rate in half down the pipe line which is why apple wouldn't allow it to extend another time.

     

    The MR1750 might work for you or might not work since NYC apartments areas would be wifi crowded and might have a lot of RF interference.   The other option but a much more costly one would be to get Ruckus R500 AC unleashed when the unleashed firmware supports Mesh networks. Unleashed firmware only got released during the first week of October and does not require a controller. Unfortunately, Ruckus R500 goes for about $500+ a piece and plus you'll need to get a POE injector which is about $16. So you might need 2 ruckus.. the R500 can cover  a big area and it has their beamflex+ tech that can go around obstacles that a normal wifi router can not do. It's actually  pretty amazing stuff.

     

    If I were you I first would try the Open Mesh MR1750, and get it on Amazon from a vendor that does amazon prime shipping so if it doesn't work out for you can easily return it with in 30days.

     

     

    Note: As of right now the Ruckus R500 unleashed doesn't support Mesh networks, but the feature will be coming soon after a few firmware updates which we don't know when.

     

    Note: Open Mesh is consider entry level enterprise wifi.. and Ruckus is actually more robust enterprise wifi. In fact, Ruckus competes against Cisco, Aruba, etc etc...