Scenario

Q: Why are two AirPorts failing to extend over Ethernet?

I have a large property with an AirPort Time Capsule in the house and an AirPort Extreme out in a workshop. I connected them via a 232-foot Ethernet cable buried in a trench, at great expense. (And yes, I confirmed that I get a good network signal through the cable.)

 

So I want my extended "Scenario" WiFi network to look something like this:

 

[Cable Modem] <—> WAN = [AirPort Time Capsule] = LAN <——————————> WAN = [AirPort Extreme]

                       (     (    (   (  ( ((                  •                  )) )  )   )    )     )               (     (    (   (  ( ((                  •                  )) )  )   )    )     )

 

Sometimes the radios will be within range of each other but mostly not. So, I need to make sure the "roaming" network is set up to use Ethernet — not wirelessly.


However, when you tell the "setup wizard" in AirPort Utility 6.3.6 that you want to set up your AirPort Extreme to extend your network, it will present as many as four descriptions of what it's about to do, and you don't have a way to specify which:

 

  1. Extend "AirPort Time Capsule". (What? Exactly how it's going to extend the hardware by name is beyond me—unless it means its going to copy its settings.)
  2. Extend "Scenario". (Yes, I want to extend my network using the same SSID and password.)
  3. Extend "Scenario" wirelessly. (No, I don't want this because I know it will be slow and it will fail eventually.)
  4. Extend "Scenario" over Ethernet. (Yes, please!)


Clearly #4 is the one I want, but it's very rare to see that description after resetting both devices and starting over.

 

What AirPort Utility will actually do most of the time is set the AirPort Extreme up in Bridging mode, but it will also be set up to create another network called "Scenario". So I have to go in later and change that from "create a network" to "extend a network." Otherwise I have two separate WiFi networks that just happen to have the same SSID and password. And that would suck, because if my wife or I roam around the house on a FaceTime call, the connection is guaranteed to get dropped versus transitioning seamlessly from one radio to the other supporting a single network.

 

If I go in and force the AirPort Extreme to extend my network, I can tell it starts ignoring its Ethernet connection because the connection is either very slow or non-existent if I move away from my AirPort Time Capsule. I know this because I expect to get 29 Mbps download speed from Comcast. I get that speed on a client of my Time Capsule, but a client of my Extreme will only get 0.1 Mbps! I assume that's because the radios are just barely intersecting and the Extreme is trying to extend my network wirelessly against all better judgment.

 

This seems like a major bug in AirPort Utility and perhaps the AirPort firmware as well. Is there any way to force the Extreme to use only Ethernet? If my Ethernet goes down for any reason, there's really no point in having my Extreme trying to serve anything up anyway.

Posted on Nov 20, 2015 3:44 PM

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Q: Why are two AirPorts failing to extend over Ethernet?

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  • Helpful answers

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Nov 20, 2015 3:48 PM in response to Scenario
    Level 10 (105,067 points)
    Wireless
    Nov 20, 2015 3:48 PM in response to Scenario

    Please try the following:

     

    Power up the AirPort Extreme for a few minutes

    Hold in the reset button on the back of the Extreme for 7 to 8 seconds and release

    Allow a full minute for the AirPort Extreme to restart

     

    Connect the Ethernet cable to the WAN "O" port on the AirPort Extreme

     

    Run the setup "wizard".  The first window that appears will look like this, except that you will see your devices and network name:

     

    Extend Ethernet 1.png

     

    Type in name that you want to call the AirPort Extreme

    Click Next

     

    Now watch the next window to confirm that the AirPort is being set up to extend using Ethernet.  This confirms that the AirPort is being set up correctly.

     

    Extend Ethernet 2.png

     

    Wait a minute, then when you see the message of Setup Complete, click Done.   And.....you are done.  Your roaming network is now operating correctly.

  • by Scenario,

    Scenario Scenario Nov 20, 2015 3:56 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (19 points)
    Mac OS X
    Nov 20, 2015 3:56 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Yes, that's how it's supposed to work. But as I said, the "extend using Ethernet" description usually doesn't appear. It's one of the other descriptions.

     

    And when it does appear, the Extreme will later slip into "extend wirelessly" or "create a network" mode—all on its own.

     

    Here's a similar report:

    Can't extend Network with ethernet

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Nov 20, 2015 3:59 PM in response to Scenario
    Level 10 (105,067 points)
    Wireless
    Nov 20, 2015 3:59 PM in response to Scenario

    Temporarily, move the AirPort Extreme very close to the TC.

     

    Perform a Hard Reset again on the Extreme

     

    Disconnect the long Ethernet cable for now.

     

    Connect a short, spare Ethernet cable.....any length will do as long as it is good cable.....from a LAN <--> port on the TC to the WAN port on the AirPort

     

    Run the setup wizard

     

    What happens?

  • by Scenario,

    Scenario Scenario Nov 20, 2015 4:04 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (19 points)
    Mac OS X
    Nov 20, 2015 4:04 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Ah, I thought of that yesterday and tried it. It did configure that way using the description, 'Setting up this AirPort Extreme to extend "Scenario" using Ethernet.'

     

    I thought I was good to go. But when I moved the Extreme back to the workshop (slightly out of WiFi range from my Time Capsule), it reverted itself to "Create a Network" mode all by itself. And then when I forced it back into "Extend a Network" mode, it performed very poorly (0.1 Mbps).


    This has got to be a bug, right?

     

    I know my Ethernet cable is good because I can take my MacBook out there, plug in and get a full 29 Mbps Internet and connect to other wired devices in my house at 1000 Mbps. My NetGear switch also says that cable is "OK."

  • by Bob Timmons,Helpful

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Nov 20, 2015 4:16 PM in response to Scenario
    Level 10 (105,067 points)
    Wireless
    Nov 20, 2015 4:16 PM in response to Scenario
    thought I was good to go. But when I moved the Extreme back to the workshop (slightly out of WiFi range from my Time Capsule), it reverted itself to "Create a Network" mode all by itself.

    Create a network is the correct setting.  Apple calls it extend using Ethernet in the wizard.

     

    "Extend a wireless network" is used only when the AirPort Extreme connects to the TC using wireless.....not Ethernet.

     

    If you set up the AirPort Extreme to "Extend a wireless network" and then connect an Ethernet cable to the AirPort, that will create a huge feedback loop.......which might explain the tremendous speed drop on your network, which has crashed.

     

    Trust the wizard.  Then, if you want to go into AirPort Utility to see what things look like....that is OK.....but do not change anything.

  • by Scenario,

    Scenario Scenario Nov 20, 2015 4:20 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (19 points)
    Mac OS X
    Nov 20, 2015 4:20 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    Well that might explain it. It's funny this isn't mentioned anywhere in this Apple article:

    Wi-Fi base stations: Extending the range of your wireless network by adding additional Wi-Fi base stations - Apple Suppo…

     

    In most users' minds, there is a big difference between creating or extending a network. I'm clearly trying to extend the range of my network, not create another one that operates independently. Especially considering those radio signals might overlap and might not. So naturally when you choose to "extend" in the setup wizard, and later see that you've created a network—that's a baffler.


    What Apple's UI really means is that to create a roaming network using Ethernet, you need to be in "Create a Network" mode with Bridging turned OFF, correct? If so, the setup wizard should be very explicit about detecting the Ethernet connection and confirming that you want to create a roaming network.


    I'll try this tonight and report back, thanks Bob!

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Nov 20, 2015 4:20 PM in response to Scenario
    Level 10 (105,067 points)
    Wireless
    Nov 20, 2015 4:20 PM in response to Scenario

    That article is 4 years old and has nothing really to do with the newer version of AirPort Utility that you are using.  Best to trash the article.....it will only confuse you.

     

    The wizard set things up for you correctly, but I'm afraid that you were way over thinking things and trying to correct an error that did not exist.

  • by Scenario,

    Scenario Scenario Nov 20, 2015 4:21 PM in response to Bob Timmons
    Level 1 (19 points)
    Mac OS X
    Nov 20, 2015 4:21 PM in response to Bob Timmons

    LOL, that's the story of my life.

  • by Bob Timmons,

    Bob Timmons Bob Timmons Nov 20, 2015 4:44 PM in response to Scenario
    Level 10 (105,067 points)
    Wireless
    Nov 20, 2015 4:44 PM in response to Scenario

    Maybe these two tips will help you avoid another long, frustrating situation.

     

    If you want to check settings in AirPort Utility......any version......

     

    If the Apple router has an Ethernet connection.....it must always "Create a wireless network"

     

    If the Apple router has a wireless connection from another Apple router......it must always "Extend a wireless network"