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Q: AppleTV 4 surround sound issue

i just acquired an AppleTV 4 to replace my AppleTV 3. Since I used to connect the optical audio out to my Yamaha surround sound receiver, I am forced to use only hdmi. That would not be a problem for two reasons:

 

1. All AppleTV content plays with the receiver showing PCM and not DTS or some other form of surround sound.

2. All my movies i encoded are strictly playing in stereo only. The DTS stream is seemingly not being passed through hdmi.

 

Routing hdmi to tv then optical from tv to receiver does not change anything.

 

How can I fix this?  Surely I should be getting DTS with a Yamaha rx- v1900 receiver?

Posted on Nov 1, 2015 1:32 AM

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Q: AppleTV 4 surround sound issue

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  • by WTF4CT,

    WTF4CT WTF4CT Dec 30, 2015 5:18 AM in response to csmonroe
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 30, 2015 5:18 AM in response to csmonroe

    I turned off the control loud noises (or whatever it is called) and get a better result.  Someone mentioned this earlier in this dialog.

  • by WTF4CT,

    WTF4CT WTF4CT Dec 30, 2015 6:40 AM in response to Jon Walker
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 30, 2015 6:40 AM in response to Jon Walker

    Very late to this discussion which is excellent, although as an Apple share holder, this is a disappointing product as it dumbs down the audiophile experience I have grown to love about Apple.  With that slight rant out of my system, here is what I found very helpful about this discussion:

    1. Set Audio to Dolby Digital - great relief although would prefer AUTO smarts of ATV3; I suspect that the removal of Toslink(SPDIF) Out impacted the software/firmware to a point where ATV4 lost the smarts to recognize source and seamlessly encode/decode both audio and video.
    2. Set Audio Loud Noises to On (Loud) - Now I can hear the Cannonball bounce across the prairie in Patriot and U2 belt out In the Name of Love.
    3. Very informative all the different formats and encodings that need to be supported and surprised to hear the number of issues going directly HDMI into very powerful AV Equipment

     

    I did go out and buy an Audio De-Embedder with 3D support (KanexPro) and split the HDMI out into HDMI Out and SPDIF out;  this made it more of an ATV3 "like" configuration into my Marantz AV Surround and Pioneer Plasma.  Worked very well although, even with this device, I needed to set Dolby Digital on which does impact the overall listening experience.


    Thank you all for the great discussion; I learned a lot -  LET'S HOPE APPLE (APPL) DID THE SAME.


    Happy New Year 2016

  • by WTF4CT,

    WTF4CT WTF4CT Dec 30, 2015 7:02 AM in response to pwnell
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 30, 2015 7:02 AM in response to pwnell

    Had the same issue with a Marantz - purchased and KanexPro Audio De-Embedder mimicking the ATV3 setup (HDMI --> Pioneer (TV) and SPDIF Optical --> Marantz (AV Surround).  This coupled with setting ATV4 to Dolby Digital solved most of my issues.  Very frustrating experience.  Thank you PWNELL for all your insight.  BTW - You will need an additional HDMI Cable to connect ATV4 --> De-Embedder (splitter).

    Happy New Year 2016

  • by WTF4CT,

    WTF4CT WTF4CT Dec 30, 2015 7:08 AM in response to Jon Walker
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Dec 30, 2015 7:08 AM in response to Jon Walker

    This helped me.  Thank you.  Not sure why I can't highlight this as an answer.

  • by Jon Walker,

    Jon Walker Jon Walker Dec 30, 2015 8:57 AM in response to WTF4CT
    Level 6 (18,620 points)
    Dec 30, 2015 8:57 AM in response to WTF4CT

    Set Audio to Dolby Digital - great relief although would prefer AUTO smarts of ATV3; I suspect that the removal of Toslink(SPDIF) Out impacted the software/firmware to a point where ATV4 lost the smarts to recognize source and seamlessly encode/decode both audio and video.

    It is my understanding that the HDMI connection has a greater capacity specification. Others have speculated that the dropping of the optical audio output was to ensure adequate compatibility with the newly added DD+ 7.1 connection requirements. AV output worked fine under TV4 tvOS v9.0 and v9.0.1 until the engineers removed the ability to pass generic DD and DD+ bitstreams through to the downstream device. This is my only major complaint at this time as far as TV4 reduced capabilities are concerned.

     

    Set Audio Loud Noises to On (Loud) - Now I can hear the Cannonball bounce across the prairie in Patriot and U2 belt out In the Name of Love.

    The dynamic range issue is actually a separate problem. I always encode my AC-3 content with a full dynamic range (-31 db) setting for my listening and switch to ALC when my wife decides to join me in viewing something. I.e., she prefers a -27 db (common home theater) setting which I pre-programm into my AVR for those occasions when she complains about my "listening habits." The ability to disable the encoded Dial Normalization setting locally or globally is new to the TV4 device whereas older TV units appear to have simply passed the DialNorm setting through to the user's downstream device for handling. (So, for me, this is less of an issue than the inability of my receiver to automatically decode active matrix encoded AC-3 bitstream content that is no longer being passed to my AVR as an AC-3 bitstream.)

     

    Very informative all the different formats and encodings that need to be supported and surprised to hear the number of issues going directly HDMI into very powerful AV Equipment

    As previously indicated, I'm hoping the current absence of passthrough support in tvOS v9.1 "Auto" and "Dolby Surround" modes is merely a prelude to future support of other possible compression formats. However, until full Dolby bitstream passthrough support is restored, I will continue to lament its loss. I see no reason why the previously proven bitstream mode option cannot be restored as a fully supported but separate output option allowing the TV4 to function in the same manner as TV2 and TV3 devices and how the TV4 might have worked under tvOS v9.0 or v9.0.1 if bitstreams were passed to downstream devices directly—without any preprocessing—and thus, not forcing users to find processing workarounds for content normally played properly by downstream devices alone and on their own without being modified by the TV4.

    SJAUG.png

  • by Airsculpture,

    Airsculpture Airsculpture Jan 5, 2016 7:22 AM in response to Jon Walker
    Level 4 (1,431 points)
    iTunes
    Jan 5, 2016 7:22 AM in response to Jon Walker

    Totally agree with your comments Jon. Previous movies which played fine in 5.1 on the ATV3 now only give stereo or mock surround sound whatever I choose, whether it be Auto or DS setting. Others seem to pump through PCM automatically which is fine by me. I was suprised yesterday , testing some new Polk speakers I receiv3ed, that the previously fine versions of Lord Of The Rings merely gave me Stereo and I know for sure they are 5.1

  • by meegwell,

    meegwell meegwell Jan 5, 2016 8:22 AM in response to WTF4CT
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Apple TV
    Jan 5, 2016 8:22 AM in response to WTF4CT

    ***4CT wrote:

     

    Had the same issue with a Marantz - purchased and KanexPro Audio De-Embedder mimicking the ATV3 setup (HDMI --> Pioneer (TV) and SPDIF Optical --> Marantz (AV Surround).  This coupled with setting ATV4 to Dolby Digital solved most of my issues.  Very frustrating experience.  Thank you PWNELL for all your insight.  BTW - You will need an additional HDMI Cable to connect ATV4 --> De-Embedder (splitter).

    Happy New Year 2016

     

    first - (and I just learned this) hit the "quote" button at the top of the reply box before you start typing your reply. 

     

    I am not sure how your down stream cable configuration would change anything here.  At the end of the day, the same digital audio signal (however processed) is passing along either ATV>HDMI>AVR or, in your case ATV>HDMI>(split audio to)Optical>AVR.  In both cases, the same signal (assuming it is of lower resolution that can be handled by the optical - see below) is hitting your AVR, and the ATV only "sees" an HDMI output. 

     

    HDMI and Optical are both capable of DD multi channel audio.  HDMI is capable of higher resolution digital audio (i.e. uncompressed 5.1 or 7.1 - Dolby TrueHD, DTS-MA etc).  But, if you are limiting your source material to compressed 7.1 or standard DD5.1, you should be indifferent and the actions of the ATV or your AVR should in no way be impacted by the two different digital pathways described here.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Jan 5, 2016 8:37 AM in response to Airsculpture
    Level 9 (51,382 points)
    Desktops
    Jan 5, 2016 8:37 AM in response to Airsculpture

    Speakers are not 5.1, only their amplification is multi channel. There is no such thing as a 5 channel speaker.

  • by bodosom,

    bodosom bodosom Jan 5, 2016 9:16 AM in response to meegwell
    Level 1 (28 points)
    iPhone
    Jan 5, 2016 9:16 AM in response to meegwell

    meegwell wrote:

     

    if you are limiting your source material to compressed 7.1 or standard DD5.1, you should be indifferent and the actions of the ATV or your AVR should in no way be impacted by the two different digital pathways described here.

     

    Consumer optical (S/PDIF) is limited to AC-3 (5.1).  E-AC-3 (7.1) has to be down-sampled.

  • by meegwell,

    meegwell meegwell Jan 5, 2016 9:24 AM in response to bodosom
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Apple TV
    Jan 5, 2016 9:24 AM in response to bodosom

    bodosom wrote:

     

    meegwell wrote:

     

    if you are limiting your source material to compressed 7.1 or standard DD5.1, you should be indifferent and the actions of the ATV or your AVR should in no way be impacted by the two different digital pathways described here.

     

    Consumer optical (S/PDIF) is limited to AC-3 (5.1).  E-AC-3 (7.1) has to be down-sampled.

     

    thanks bodosom - I was writing 'off the cuff'...I think I swapped "compressed" for "down-sampled".  To be clear, standard DD5.1 = AC-3 (5.1)...correct?

  • by meegwell,

    meegwell meegwell Jan 5, 2016 9:27 AM in response to meegwell
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Apple TV
    Jan 5, 2016 9:27 AM in response to meegwell

    And while I'm writing about this issue for the God-knows-how-many-times between threads here and threads at AV forums....

     

    PLEASE anyone with a surround issue on ATV4 make a formal communication with Apple (email, chat, call).  Tell them you want the option to just pass through the bit-stream and let your AV equipment handle surround decoding!  At a minimum, tell them its not working correctly.

  • by bodosom,

    bodosom bodosom Jan 5, 2016 10:09 AM in response to meegwell
    Level 1 (28 points)
    iPhone
    Jan 5, 2016 10:09 AM in response to meegwell

    meegwell wrote:

    To be clear, standard DD5.1 = AC-3 (5.1)...correct?

     

    Yes.  E-AC-3 is DD+

  • by Airsculpture,

    Airsculpture Airsculpture Jan 5, 2016 10:48 AM in response to Csound1
    Level 4 (1,431 points)
    iTunes
    Jan 5, 2016 10:48 AM in response to Csound1

    I know that, I merely mentioned when i was testing out my newly arrived front towers ( admittedly I shouldn't have mentioned them as it is superfluous ) that is when I kept flipping between my old ATV3 and the new ATV4

  • by bodosom,

    bodosom bodosom Jan 5, 2016 10:56 AM in response to Airsculpture
    Level 1 (28 points)
    iPhone
    Jan 5, 2016 10:56 AM in response to Airsculpture

    Airsculpture wrote:

     

    Totally agree with your comments Jon. Previous movies which played fine in 5.1 on the ATV3 now only give stereo or mock surround sound whatever I choose, whether it be Auto or DS setting.

    Using what app?

  • by Airsculpture,

    Airsculpture Airsculpture Jan 5, 2016 11:05 AM in response to bodosom
    Level 4 (1,431 points)
    iTunes
    Jan 5, 2016 11:05 AM in response to bodosom

    Setting under Audio Video options

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