Stuart Luff

Q: El Capitan spotlight broken

I upgraded to El Capitan on my work iMac and immediately noticed Spotlight is now broken.

 

In the office we use a reference number system whereby we name our files in the format as xxxx-xx-xx. I've noticed that when I search using Spotlight, be it in the Spotlight window, Mail.app search box, Finder search box or wherever there is a search field and Spotlight is involved I get no search results if the search string is over 8 characters long and contains a special character like a dash, a period or forward slash for example. An @ symbol is fine however.

 

As an example if I run a search in Mail for an email containing '1234-56-78' I get NO results returned. If however I remove one of the dashes (doesn't matter which one) I get results appearing. The same happens if I remove both dashes.

 

Again in Mail; If I search for 'john.appleseed@apple.com' I get no results returned. If I remove the period between 'john' and 'appleseed' I get results.

 

While testing this as I type it does not seem fully related to 8 characters length although this is when is it most prevalent. It seems its mainly related to special characters and Spotlight not handling them very well.

 

Can someone create a folder on their desktop called '1234-56-78' and then try searching for it using both Spotlight and a search via a Finder window and let me know you're results? If you get no results try taking out a dash and see what happens.

 

I've reindexed Spotlight about 5 times and have now filed a bug report with Apple.

iMac, OS X El Capitan (10.11)

Posted on Oct 16, 2015 3:23 AM

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Q: El Capitan spotlight broken

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  • by dialabrain,

    dialabrain dialabrain Jan 20, 2016 4:02 AM in response to Stuart Luff
    Level 5 (6,171 points)
    Mac App Store
    Jan 20, 2016 4:02 AM in response to Stuart Luff

    The Finder is not Spotlight. Somehow you have the idea searching from the Finder is the same as searching in Spotlight. As I already mentioned, I had no trouble finding the test folder in Spotlight. It doesn't require parameters.

  • by Stuart Luff,

    Stuart Luff Stuart Luff Jan 20, 2016 5:22 AM in response to dialabrain
    Level 1 (61 points)
    Jan 20, 2016 5:22 AM in response to dialabrain

    Finder and Mail utilises Spotlight for their search function. Its essentially Spotlight wrapped up differently. Either way it does not work via Finder or Mail and so El Capitan is completely useless to me (and many others) because of it.

     

    I've made a video (i can't upload here directly for some reason) so go here and see. This time Spotlight nor Finder found ANYTHING even when adding extra parameters. Tell me thats not broken.

     

    And yes ALL items are checked in the Spotlight preferences (including folders).

  • by Stuart Luff,

    Stuart Luff Stuart Luff Jan 20, 2016 5:28 AM in response to Stuart Luff
    Level 1 (61 points)
    Jan 20, 2016 5:28 AM in response to Stuart Luff

    And here is a second video showing just how inconsistent it is. It now find the folder but editing the search query give crazy results. Sometimes it appears, sometimes it does not. Spotlight window now seems to function whereby in my last video from minutes earlier it did not.

     

    Video

  • by Stuart Luff,

    Stuart Luff Stuart Luff Jan 20, 2016 5:52 AM in response to Stuart Luff
    Level 1 (61 points)
    Jan 20, 2016 5:52 AM in response to Stuart Luff

    Heres a video from Mail.

  • by dialabrain,

    dialabrain dialabrain Jan 20, 2016 6:34 AM in response to Stuart Luff
    Level 5 (6,171 points)
    Mac App Store
    Jan 20, 2016 6:34 AM in response to Stuart Luff

    Stuart Luff wrote:

     

    And here is a second video showing just how inconsistent it is. It now find the folder but editing the search query give crazy results. Sometimes it appears, sometimes it does not. Spotlight window now seems to function whereby in my last video from minutes earlier it did not.

    If you clear the search field by clicking the "x" and not trying to edit it you wouldn't have "strange results". You'll have to forgive me but I didn't watch your videos because I knew what I would see.  I have 6 Macs here at home, One of which isn't plugged in. 3 are running OSX 10.11, 2 are running OSX 10.10. Finder searches work for me as do Spotlight searches. Sorry they don't work for you.

  • by Stuart Luff,

    Stuart Luff Stuart Luff Jan 20, 2016 6:46 AM in response to dialabrain
    Level 1 (61 points)
    Jan 20, 2016 6:46 AM in response to dialabrain

    So you're telling my I can't edit a search but have to clear it then retype every time? Is that also by design?

     

    I suggest you watch the videos.

  • by dialabrain,

    dialabrain dialabrain Jan 20, 2016 6:47 AM in response to Stuart Luff
    Level 5 (6,171 points)
    Mac App Store
    Jan 20, 2016 6:47 AM in response to Stuart Luff

    All I will see is someone who doesn't know how to use searches properly. No thanks.

  • by Stuart Luff,

    Stuart Luff Stuart Luff Jan 20, 2016 6:50 AM in response to dialabrain
    Level 1 (61 points)
    Jan 20, 2016 6:50 AM in response to dialabrain

    No you will be eating your words. Just because it works for you does not mean other people do not know how to work the operating system. Especially someone like me thats been using Macs since system 7 and use them every single day for my graphic design business, administering them for others to use. If it was by design why would Apple ask for Diagnostic files after I sent them a bug report and video?

  • by dialabrain,

    dialabrain dialabrain Jan 20, 2016 6:54 AM in response to Stuart Luff
    Level 5 (6,171 points)
    Mac App Store
    Jan 20, 2016 6:54 AM in response to Stuart Luff

    Well we have two things in common. I've used Macs since 1985 so we're both old. I also owned a Mac-based computer graphics firm until I retired early.

     

    As far as why Apple asked for a report, perhaps to appease you.

  • by Stuart Luff,

    Stuart Luff Stuart Luff Jan 20, 2016 7:00 AM in response to dialabrain
    Level 1 (61 points)
    Jan 20, 2016 7:00 AM in response to dialabrain

    Tell me then if you won't watch the videos why a search for '1234-56-78' returns no results but a search for '12345678' returns the file '1234-56-78'.

     

    Also why does a search for 'john.appleseed@apple.com' return no results but a search for 'johnappleseed@apple.com' returns 'john.appleseed@apple.com'

     

    Is this by design? Thats like searching for Cat and getting nothing. Type in Dog and you get Cat.

  • by iTBotB,

    iTBotB iTBotB Jan 20, 2016 7:45 AM in response to Stuart Luff
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jan 20, 2016 7:45 AM in response to Stuart Luff

    Stuart is correct. Clicking the magnifying class in the menu bar, pressing command-space bar, and typing in the upper right corner of a Finder window all activate Spotlight. You also activate Spotlight within some applications that tie into it such as Yep. The Finder window method provides the most power because you can enter multiple parameters to limit the search. As I mentioned a while ago, Spotlight sometimes fails in its searches because its default mode becomes "exact match" instead of "contains". That makes Spotlight useless for most searches. For a few weeks, I gave up on Spotlight and used EasyFind (free from Devon Technologies). It can find anything, including invisible files. It shows paths and lets you open the item or any folder along the path. (Very handy). It can find by content despite no indexing. However, it can't search by multiple parameters.

     

    I have a functional Spotlight now. Here's how I did it. (Your mileage may vary. I fixed Spotlight in the course of fixing widespread permissions problems.)

    1. Did a clean install with all other drives unmounted.

    2. Immediately blocked Spotlight from indexing anything, including the main drive.

    3. Trashed the index that had started.

    4. (Most users won't need this step.) Fixed permission problems through a variety of means. (I know more about permissions and Unix commands than I ever wanted. My permission problems were caused by upgrading from Snow Leopard that has a different permissions protocol from Lion and beyond. I had folders and files with non-standard permissions, which worsened the upgrade problems.)

    5. Allowed Spotlight to index only my main drive. I did nothing else during the indexing.

    6. Trashed and rebuilt the Spotlight index whenever Spotlight acted weird. (Two times so far.)

     

    I’ve had a stable and functional Spotlight for two weeks. I also have extreme disgust with Apple’s programmers who mucked-up a reasonably good search engine and the permissions protocol. Under Snow Leopard, I had to rebuild the Spotlight index a few times a year, but TinkerTools System made that easy. My Spotlight index is massive, and it doesn’t surprise me that it gets corrupt. Because of that, Spotlight index should have incremental backups so it doesn't have to spend half a day completely re-indexing. (Another reason why I abhor El Capitan: Spotlight indexing is much slower than with Snow Leopard. So is every FInder-related task, for that matter.)

     

    From what I can see, the people without Spotlight (and permissions) problems are users who rarely launch anything but Safari, Mail, iTunes, and maybe Pages; who have few files on their internal drive and no second drive, who never add other users, never change a file’s permission, never bother with Time Machine, never skip an OS upgrade, buy a new Mac every three years, and who can easily replace their desktop or laptop with an iPad. In other words, Apple’s ideal customer. (My daughters fit that profile except for buying new computers often, and they’ve never had a Spotlight problem.) Apple now hates power users and wishes they would migrate to Linux or Windows. Which I will when my beloved Mac Pro dies.

  • by Stuart Luff,

    Stuart Luff Stuart Luff Jan 20, 2016 8:02 AM in response to iTBotB
    Level 1 (61 points)
    Jan 20, 2016 8:02 AM in response to iTBotB

    Thanks iTBotB.

     

    My home iMac has an SSD as my main drive and a HDD built in so I can't really 'unmount' it. That being said my MacMini at home is pretty much brand new and has only really been used a few times maybe for Safari and email and Photos. Theres never been an extra HDD attached but it too has the problem.

     

    I can't reinstall the OS on the work Macs as it would take at least a Day to fix everything (if all goes well). Just completely stuck using a 5 year old Machine and a 6/7 year old OS.

  • by dialabrain,

    dialabrain dialabrain Jan 20, 2016 8:10 AM in response to iTBotB
    Level 5 (6,171 points)
    Mac App Store
    Jan 20, 2016 8:10 AM in response to iTBotB

    iTBotB wrote:

     

    From what I can see, the people without Spotlight (and permissions) problems are users who rarely launch anything but Safari, Mail, iTunes, and maybe Pages; who have few files on their internal drive and no second drive, who never add other users, never change a file’s permission, never bother with Time Machine, never skip an OS upgrade, buy a new Mac every three years, and who can easily replace their desktop or laptop with an iPad. In other words, Apple’s ideal customer. (My daughters fit that profile except for buying new computers often, and they’ve never had a Spotlight problem.) Apple now hates power users and wishes they would migrate to Linux or Windows. Which I will when my beloved Mac Pro dies.

    FWIW, based on your definition, a Power User is someone who can manage to screw up his install. I have three external drives not including my Time Capsule which is used to backup devices from other rooms. I have used Time Machine since it was available. I don't change file permissions unless something broke them. I only have my s/o as a second user since there is no one else here to add. I don't normally use Safari or iTunes or Pages. I'm not going to bother listing all the programs I run and for what purposes.

     

    I also have a Linux and a Windows box. I also run Windows and Linux as guests in hypervisors. I guess I must be a Super Power user.

     

    I am sorry when people have problems and don't understand why.

  • by Stuart Luff,

    Stuart Luff Stuart Luff Jan 20, 2016 8:22 AM in response to dialabrain
    Level 1 (61 points)
    Jan 20, 2016 8:22 AM in response to dialabrain

    How can a user screw up an install?

     

    It asks do you want to install. You click yes and it does it. Theres no user interaction. The screen goes grey and theres a loading bar. What is there to screw up?

     

    Spotlight is severely broken for many users. Deal with it. Heres a quick look through the support forums:

     

    El Capitan upgrade - Search not working in Mail or iCal

     

    El Capitan calendar search not working properly

     

    Finder search and spotlight problem

     

    Search field stopped returning results

  • by dialabrain,

    dialabrain dialabrain Jan 20, 2016 8:38 AM in response to Stuart Luff
    Level 5 (6,171 points)
    Mac App Store
    Jan 20, 2016 8:38 AM in response to Stuart Luff

    Stuart Luff wrote:

     

    How can a user screw up an install?

    What I said was a "Power User".

     

    As far as reports of people having problems, millions of people use computers, many who have no background with them. So it's not very surprising some run into issues of their own making.

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