julie78787

Q: Using gross instead of net calories

I've been using smartphone health apps for longer than the Apple Watch has been available.  My preferred application, which I used on an Android phone, was Endomondo and the calories burned reported by it agreed with just about everything I know about exercise, except that now I find out I've been using "gross" instead of "net" calories.

 

Is there anyway to get the Workout and Activity apps to use "gross" calories, or do I need to reduce my "Exercise" calorie target by whatever the "resting" calories are going to be during my workout, however long it might just so happen to take?  I have several years worth of history and don't want to start all over again.

Apple Watch, watchOS 2.1

Posted on Jan 20, 2016 11:32 PM

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Q: Using gross instead of net calories

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  • by Jonathan UK,

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Jan 21, 2016 12:21 AM in response to julie78787
    Level 7 (33,905 points)
    Apple Watch
    Jan 21, 2016 12:21 AM in response to julie78787

    Hi Julie

     

    For the purpose of setting goals, the Activity app (daily Move goal) and Workout app (workout goals) each use active energy / calories.

     

    It is not presently possible to set these goals based instead on total (active + resting) calories.

     

    More information:

    Use the Activity app on your Apple Watch - Apple Support

    Use the Workout app on your Apple Watch - Apple Support

    http://www.apple.com/watch/health-and-fitness/

  • by Jonathan UK,Helpful

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Jan 21, 2016 7:00 AM in response to julie78787
    Level 7 (33,905 points)
    Apple Watch
    Jan 21, 2016 7:00 AM in response to julie78787

    If you would like to suggest that Apple considers adding this option as a new feature, you can do so here:

     

    https://www.apple.com/feedback/watch.html

  • by julie78787,

    julie78787 julie78787 Jan 21, 2016 7:16 AM in response to Jonathan UK
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Apple Watch
    Jan 21, 2016 7:16 AM in response to Jonathan UK

    Thanks for the awesome response!  I've submitted a feature request and hopefully they'll make the change so I can compare my pre-Watch exercise to my post-Watch exercise.

     

    Like many users, I'm also having issues with the accuracy of the "active calories".  From what I can tell, the Workout app is using a seriously flawed model for computing activity.  I've used a number of on-line calculators which agree with the Workout app being wrong.  For example, I'm (almost) 54 and using a weight, time and heartbeat model for activity, I got a gross value of about 750 calories.  The resting metabolic rate calories for that time period would have been 95 calories, in round numbers, for a net of 655.  The Workout app reported it as about 370 net calories.  My exercise calorie goal was 570 and let's just say I missed it very badly.

     

    The other app I use (which I run in parallel) reported it as a 730 gross calorie workout.  Again, netting the resting metabolic rate calories over the same time period would produce an active calorie value of 635.

     

    Endomondo and the "weight + time + heartbeat" model are in very close agreement, while the Workout app value is just hopelessly wrong.  I've used other exercise calorie models on-line and they pretty much agree with what Endomondo reports for gross activity.  Since my resting metabolic rate doesn't change from app to app, they should all agree on net as well.

  • by Jonathan UK,

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Jan 21, 2016 8:03 AM in response to julie78787
    Level 7 (33,905 points)
    Apple Watch
    Jan 21, 2016 8:03 AM in response to julie78787

    You're welcome!

     

    To help improve the accuracy of calorie estimations:

     

    • Check that your personal information is accurate:
      • On your iPhone, in the Watch app, go to: My Watch (tab) > Health > check and, if necessary, edit your birthdate, gender, height and weight.

     

    • Check your settings:
      • On your iPhone, in the Watch app, go to: My Watch (tab) > Privacy > Motion & Fitness > check that Heart Rate and Fitness Tracking are both enabled.

     

    • For the best results from the heart rate sensor (data from which is used when estimating calories), check that you are wearing your watch snugly on the top of your wrist during workouts:
      • Apple suggests that you consider tightening your watch band before workouts and loosening it again afterwards.

     

    • Calibrate your Apple Watch (instructions via link below):
      • Calibration can help to improve the accuracy of various health and activity-related estimations including:
        • Calorie estimations for workouts when using the Workout app.
        • Calorie, distance, Move and Exercise estimations in the Activity App.

     

    More information:

    Calibrating your Apple Watch for improved Workout and Activity accuracy - Apple Support

    Use the Workout app on your Apple Watch - Apple Support

  • by julie78787,

    julie78787 julie78787 Jan 21, 2016 10:02 AM in response to Jonathan UK
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Apple Watch
    Jan 21, 2016 10:02 AM in response to Jonathan UK

    Thanks again for a most awesome response.

     

    I did follow the "calibration" instructions and have done enough workouts now that it should have the correct values for the information it is using.  The workouts I've used to conclude the calories are grossly inaccurate are ones that I've been doing for several years now.  The reported information, such as average heart rate, distance, etc. are mostly correct.  There is an error in the "flights of stairs" - from GPS data I know that the total change in elevation is equivalent to 7 flights of stairs, at 10' per flight.  The distance is spot on the money with past workouts over the same course -- almost exactly 5 miles.

     

    The scientific data show that active calories are based on non-fat body mass, regardless of sex, and my guess is that the calorie calculations make assumptions about non-fat body mass based on sex.  This would produce incorrect results, though I don't know how much of an error that would produce.  More accurate gross calorie values could use a metric such as weight and distance travelled over time, or weight and heartbeat over time.  Either of those two gross calories values could then have the assumed resting metabolic rate calories subtracted from the gross calories burned to produce active net calories.

  • by Jonathan UK,

    Jonathan UK Jonathan UK Jan 21, 2016 10:17 AM in response to julie78787
    Level 7 (33,905 points)
    Apple Watch
    Jan 21, 2016 10:17 AM in response to julie78787

    julie78787 wrote:

     

    There is an error in the "flights of stairs"

     

    Apple Watch does not presently record Flights Climbed (stairs). This is tracked by iPhone, which has the necessary sensor.

  • by julie78787,

    julie78787 julie78787 Jan 21, 2016 10:22 AM in response to Jonathan UK
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Apple Watch
    Jan 21, 2016 10:22 AM in response to Jonathan UK

    Thanks!  I didn't know which sensor where was doing that calculation.

     

    The iPhone does get the elevation change correct, and I'm assuming it uses GPS primarily for that.  But when it converts the approximately +/- 70' change in elevation into "flights of stairs" it alternatingly decides that 70' is either one flight or two.

  • by julie78787,

    julie78787 julie78787 Feb 11, 2016 3:59 PM in response to julie78787
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Apple Watch
    Feb 11, 2016 3:59 PM in response to julie78787

    A quick followup after a few more weeks of using the Watch to track workouts.

     

    Apple needs to do something to fix the "Active calories" calculation. There are multiple really good models for "Gross calories" based on weight and distance moved over time, as well as weight and heartbeat over time. Using those mathematical models I get values that agree much more closing to other applications, such as Endomondo or Polar.

     

    As it stands now, none of the health tracking features of the Watch have any value to me.  "Stand" can't seem to figure out that I'm standing and "Move" can't seem to get the calories right, and Apple doesn't seem to be responding.

  • by jbailey3368,

    jbailey3368 jbailey3368 Feb 12, 2016 9:58 AM in response to julie78787
    Level 1 (15 points)
    Feb 12, 2016 9:58 AM in response to julie78787

    I'm having this issue as well. Please keep us updated!

     

    Thanks!

  • by deggie,

    deggie deggie Feb 12, 2016 11:01 AM in response to julie78787
    Level 9 (54,563 points)
    iPhone
    Feb 12, 2016 11:01 AM in response to julie78787

    The trouble with all of these various devices is that is like wearing several different watches, you will never know the exact time.

     

    Have you checked what your average heart rate is after you complete your exercise? And compared that to a different monitor? You may have a problem with the heart rate sensor.

  • by julie78787,

    julie78787 julie78787 Feb 12, 2016 11:07 AM in response to deggie
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Apple Watch
    Feb 12, 2016 11:07 AM in response to deggie

    @deggie -

     

    It's pretty hard for the Watch to be correct when it says my heart rate is 50-something and I'm smack-dab in the middle of cardio **** and my actual heart rate is north of 130 or 140. Another watch owner I know has reported the same thing - the heart rate drops like a rock, as if there was some kind of small value unsigned rollover. My guess is that it's actually a sampling error caused by the sampling rate being well below what it should be. It smells like the sort of bug a software engineer would make that an electrical engineer would know better than making

  • by deggie,

    deggie deggie Feb 12, 2016 11:17 AM in response to julie78787
    Level 9 (54,563 points)
    iPhone
    Feb 12, 2016 11:17 AM in response to julie78787

    You are making the erroneous assumption that because you and one other person has this error that everyone else does. My watch records my heart rate correctly and if it is a long workout runs the battery down significantly. On your watch it is probably a hardware error that the sensor for some reason is not reading your heart rate correctly. If you was a software bug every Watch would be having the same issue. Make a Genius Bar appointment and have yours checked.

  • by julie78787,

    julie78787 julie78787 Feb 12, 2016 11:21 AM in response to deggie
    Level 1 (20 points)
    Apple Watch
    Feb 12, 2016 11:21 AM in response to deggie

    @deggie -

     

    There are a lot of people reporting heart rate inaccuracies. It's not just myself and one other person. There's also only so tight the strap can be tightened before it doesn't get any tighter or it turns into a tourniquet.

  • by deggie,

    deggie deggie Feb 12, 2016 11:26 AM in response to julie78787
    Level 9 (54,563 points)
    iPhone
    Feb 12, 2016 11:26 AM in response to julie78787

    Can you define "a lot"? Is that 2? 486? How much has the internet amplified it.

     

    I've personally only known one person who had a consistency inaccurate low heart rate. They took it to the Apple Store and it still showed low on an employee. They swapped out the Watch. The service replacement Watch didn't have the problem.

     

    So you have had yours looked at and replaced and it still is showing a low heart rate? Do you know any people that it is reporting correctly? I do. If it was a software bug then ALL of them would do the same thing. Even and electrical engineer can figure that out.

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