agershun

Q: I bought iPhone 6s without the contract. When I tried to activate it, I cannot, because "The SIM is not supported...". Apple support denies to help me even to say what company locked my new legally purchsed iPhone. What to do? I

I bought the new iPhone 6s at Target Store without the contract. When I put my SIM card, iPhone infomed me that it can no be activated,

The phone is new, legal, covered by Apple's warranty accroding it's database.

 

I called to Apple support two times, they said that it was locked by someone, but even can not say the name of the company, who locked it and why.

 

So, Apple support just reccomended me nothing. NOTHING! They even did not provide me the name of the manager who can help me in such situation.

 

I called to T-Mobile, thay said that they didnot lock this device.

ATT even did not answer on all my requests.

 

Now I got dead  gold iBrick. What to do?

 

PS. I am totally disappointed with Apple policies and it's support. It is terrible that the company with such brilliant products has such terrible attention to it's legal customers.

iPhone 6s

Posted on Jan 22, 2016 3:01 AM

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Q: I bought iPhone 6s without the contract. When I tried to activate it, I cannot, because "The SIM is not supported...". Apple suppo ... more

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  • by TJBUSMC1973,

    TJBUSMC1973 TJBUSMC1973 Jan 24, 2016 7:22 AM in response to salavatkh
    Level 5 (7,636 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 7:22 AM in response to salavatkh

    salavatkh wrote:

     

    "No one but you is responsible for your current predicament, having purchased a dubious phone from a dubious source it is now yours."

     

    I think OP said he has bought iPhone from Target. If that is a dubious source, then only Apple Store is a legitimate one. Apple should stop selling from dubious source to maintain quality of customer service.

     

    "Locking/unlocking is not an Apple decision. "

     

    I cannot agree with this statement. It is Apple who enables or disables locking of the phone through centralized database (like stolen ones cannot be activated at all). Carrier only decides whether to sell locked or unlocked phones and orders appropriate ones from Apple.

     

    I think you brought important point though in your post - "Many pay full price for a locked iPhone, it is simply not bound to a contract or the buyer is not eligible for a subsidy from the carrier." - it appears that iPhone is CONTRACT FREE, but not SIM FREE, which means it is still LOCKED to a first used carrier.

     

    Well again - this conclusion is not valid either - how to predict which carrier customer is going to use then?  Logically, it sounds like it is contract free, but lockable iPhone, locking to the first carrier. But again - why so much mess with different locking options while selling iPhone at full price (I mean full - you can buy truly unlocked iPhone for very much the same amount around the globe)?

     

    I think it is a mess. And probably Apple who should clean it a bit for the sake of customer satisfaction, as it always thought to serve.

     

    Dubious source, as in, the OP does' know who it is locked to or how it got that way.  And they haven't spoken to Target at all yet.

     

    Also, you are confusing carrier activation with Activation Lock.  An iPhone reported as stolen to the carrier can still be activated via Apple, but it will not be able to get cellular service from that provider or be able to switch to another carrier, since that is controlled by the carrier, not Apple.  Activation Lock is the Apple feature that is controlled by FMiP, and is different & separate from carrier lock.

     

    Apple makes the carrier locking policy perfectly clear on their website & support articles, available for review prior to purchase.  Failure to read or understand that information is the customer's fault, not Apple's.

  • by agershun,

    agershun agershun Jan 24, 2016 7:33 AM in response to Philly_Phan
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 7:33 AM in response to Philly_Phan

    @Philly_PhanThank you for the advice. I have tried and trying to folllow this guidelines.

     

    The problem is that I do not know who locked my phone. I already wrote fill the unlock form at ATT site (because I guess they are responsible for this), but unfortunately I did not get any answer from them during 10 days. And ATT phone support sent me again to this form. Unfforutnatly, they do not react on any e-mail messages, 

     

    It was very easy to receive information about locking status from T-Mobile by phone, they just checked EMEI and answered me, but ATT does not provide this kind of service.

     

    So, when I identify carrier, I will continue and follow the steps you proposed.

     

    Thank you again!

  • by salavatkh,

    salavatkh salavatkh Jan 24, 2016 7:35 AM in response to roaminggnome
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 7:35 AM in response to roaminggnome

    "Apple does NOT decide to lock or unlock.  This is 100% the decision of the carrier.

    Apple will not lock or unlock an iPhone, unless the carrier directs them to do so.

    Not sure why you do not believe this.  It is simply the way it works."

     

    I don't think I am arguing over this, or you are talking to someone else?

     

    "Just because you don't like it does not mean it is bad, it is the single most effective theft deterrent there is. Try telling the people who recovered their iPhones that that they should not have access to it.

    It seems as though you want everyone else to suffer because you failed to check whether the phone was locked, and that is NOT going to happen."

     

    I do not think that OP wants anyone to suffer here (unless you can provide proof of what have been said). I think he is asking for help.

    I think that the problem is really funny and could have been solved already by simply clarifying status of the phone (LOCKED/CONTRACT FREE) or unlocking it, after Apple can validate the purchase.

     

    "There is no other point of view needed. " Thank you very much for notice that there is no need for different views  on those Apple forums. I believed in something different, but I know I was wrong.

     

    " Why wold you purchase an iPhone in a country where you did not intend to use it?  Why would you think that there's a 'world-wide warranty' or 'world-wide usage' when no one from Apple ever said this was true?".

     

    That is really amazes me... Unless it to be used on US soil it should not be purchased?  There are tens of reasons, why people buy in US something there are not going to use. The same goes for Japan for example (like there is hi-fi equipment exclusive to Japan market). I do not think I have to find a reasoning for buying something, but in this case OP wanted to use iPhone in US for a short period of time, then take back home. That is why UNLOCKED iPhone was bought.

     

    You could bring dozen more reasons, to support that OP was wrong, and thing are the way they should be and this is absolutely normal, but I can tell you just one more thing in response - if you ever buy UNLOCKED phone outside of US (Europe or Hong Kong for example) this story would never happen to you, you could use your phone with any carrier in the world (US included) without any problem.

     

    World is different outside of US, believe it or not.

  • by agershun,

    agershun agershun Jan 24, 2016 7:48 AM in response to TJBUSMC1973
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 7:48 AM in response to TJBUSMC1973

    @TJBUSMC1973 Hi, thank you for you answer.

     

    You are right, now I realized that the source of the phone was not reliable. At least I received the same information from Apple support operator, who said asked (approximately) "Why did I bought the phone from Target but not from Apple Store?".

     

    This is awful, don't you think so? When  the company sells the product from it's reseller, and then asks the buyer "Why did you buy our product from this wrong source?" There are only two options: or you sell and support the product with the dealer or you don;'t do it so.

     

    Actually, I do not minimize Target responsibility for this situation and try to contact them:

    a) they did not explain me that the telephone is locke even I said I will use it internally and internationally

    b) unfortunately, they are simply unavailabe outside (site taget.com gives "Access Denied" outside US)

     

    * * *

    And the last important thing: there is not such thing as "customer's fault".

  • by TJBUSMC1973,

    TJBUSMC1973 TJBUSMC1973 Jan 24, 2016 7:51 AM in response to salavatkh
    Level 5 (7,636 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 7:51 AM in response to salavatkh

    salavatkh wrote:

     

    "Apple does NOT decide to lock or unlock.  This is 100% the decision of the carrier.

    Apple will not lock or unlock an iPhone, unless the carrier directs them to do so.

    Not sure why you do not believe this.  It is simply the way it works."

     

    I don't think I am arguing over this, or you are talking to someone else?

     

    "Just because you don't like it does not mean it is bad, it is the single most effective theft deterrent there is. Try telling the people who recovered their iPhones that that they should not have access to it.

    It seems as though you want everyone else to suffer because you failed to check whether the phone was locked, and that is NOT going to happen."

     

    I do not think that OP wants anyone to suffer here (unless you can provide proof of what have been said). I think he is asking for help.

    I think that the problem is really funny and could have been solved already by simply clarifying status of the phone (LOCKED/CONTRACT FREE) or unlocking it, after Apple can validate the purchase.

     

    "There is no other point of view needed. " Thank you very much for notice that there is no need for different views  on those Apple forums. I believed in something different, but I know I was wrong.

     

    " Why wold you purchase an iPhone in a country where you did not intend to use it?  Why would you think that there's a 'world-wide warranty' or 'world-wide usage' when no one from Apple ever said this was true?".

     

    That is really amazes me... Unless it to be used on US soil it should not be purchased?  There are tens of reasons, why people buy in US something there are not going to use. The same goes for Japan for example (like there is hi-fi equipment exclusive to Japan market). I do not think I have to find a reasoning for buying something, but in this case OP wanted to use iPhone in US for a short period of time, then take back home. That is why UNLOCKED iPhone was bought.

     

    You could bring dozen more reasons, to support that OP was wrong, and thing are the way they should be and this is absolutely normal, but I can tell you just one more thing in response - if you ever buy UNLOCKED phone outside of US (Europe or Hong Kong for example) this story would never happen to you, you could use your phone with any carrier in the world (US included) without any problem.

     

    World is different outside of US, believe it or not.

     

     

    You said that you cannot agree with the statement:  'Locking/unlocking is not an Apple decision'.

     

    So, yeah, it does sound like you're arguing over this.  If you don't actually disagree with this, then tell your friend.

     

    In regards to 'another point of view', there aren't any points of view, because this isn't about OPINIONS.  It is about FACTS. 

     

    And it really amazes me that people fail to educate themselves prior to making a large or important purchase.  An iPhone is a PHONE.  For it to work correctly, you need a WIRELESS CARRIER.  So, shouldn't' you make sure that your intended carrier is even capable of using the iPhone?  Not all carriers are able to do so.  Also, there is not a global standard that all carriers use.  It's like buying a DVD player in one region, and then not being able to play DVDs from another region, or not being able to plug it in without an adaptor, and so on and so on.

     

    Who at Apple ever told you that the iPhone was intended or designed for INTERNATIONAL use?  The answer is: no one.  But the OP (and apparently you) made that assumption.

     

    You say the world is different outside of the U.S. I'm well aware of this, I've travelled a lot.  But thank you for proving my point.  The world IS different outside of the U.S.  And you seem to be aware of that.

     

    So why did this awareness of the differences apparently escape you (or the OP) when this iPhone was purchased?  Whose responsibility is it for the customer to be aware & informed prior to a purchase?

     

    Answer:  caveat emptor.


  • by agershun,

    agershun agershun Jan 24, 2016 7:59 AM in response to LACAllen
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 7:59 AM in response to LACAllen

    @LACAllen

     

    Thank you for the post.

     

    I never treat Apple, not other companies from my story as enemies. Never. This is not about it.

     

    I try to have them as the partners, who can help me to solve this simple situation. Of course, this is very uncomfortable situation, but the people who is responsible for it even will not know (unfortunately). I still think about brilliant engineers, programmers, designers, and professional and polite operators from customer support. The same thing about ATT, T-Mobile, Target's guys. And this is my position.


    Even I am very unhappy with my situation, but I am not looking for revenge, but for small and simple help in solution of my small problem. The problem of legal and loyal customer. Even here, I writing here still have a hope, that Apple has customer loyality managers, who review this (Apple sponsored) forum, and try to solve the small problems like mine.


    Once again, thank you for your involvement in this question.



  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Jan 24, 2016 8:04 AM in response to salavatkh
    Level 9 (51,090 points)
    Desktops
    Jan 24, 2016 8:04 AM in response to salavatkh

    salavatkh wrote:

     

    "No one but you is responsible for your current predicament, having purchased a dubious phone from a dubious source it is now yours."

     

    I think OP said he has bought iPhone from Target. If that is a dubious source, then only Apple Store is a legitimate one. Apple should stop selling from dubious source to maintain quality of customer service.

     

    "Locking/unlocking is not an Apple decision. "

     

    I cannot agree with this statement. It is Apple who enables or disables locking of the phone through centralized database (like stolen ones cannot be activated at all). Carrier only decides whether to sell locked or unlocked phones and orders appropriate ones from Apple.

     

    I think you brought important point though in your post - "Many pay full price for a locked iPhone, it is simply not bound to a contract or the buyer is not eligible for a subsidy from the carrier." - it appears that iPhone is CONTRACT FREE, but not SIM FREE, which means it is still LOCKED to a first used carrier.

     

    Well again - this conclusion is not valid either - how to predict which carrier customer is going to use then?  Logically, it sounds like it is contract free, but lockable iPhone, locking to the first carrier. But again - why so much mess with different locking options while selling iPhone at full price (I mean full - you can buy truly unlocked iPhone for very much the same amount around the globe)?

     

    I think it is a mess. And probably Apple who should clean it a bit for the sake of customer satisfaction, as it always thought to serve.

    It is a dubious source for Apple products as it is NOT an Apple dealer.

     

    You may disagree all you like, it doesn't change the facts.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Jan 24, 2016 8:05 AM in response to agershun
    Level 9 (51,090 points)
    Desktops
    Jan 24, 2016 8:05 AM in response to agershun

    Stop making assumptions, the fact is you have no idea who locked the phone, you're guessing.

  • by TJBUSMC1973,

    TJBUSMC1973 TJBUSMC1973 Jan 24, 2016 8:07 AM in response to agershun
    Level 5 (7,636 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 8:07 AM in response to agershun

    agershun wrote:

     

    @TJBUSMC1973 Hi, thank you for you answer.

     

    You are right, now I realized that the source of the phone was not reliable. At least I received the same information from Apple support operator, who said asked (approximately) "Why did I bought the phone from Target but not from Apple Store?".

     

    This is awful, don't you think so? When  the company sells the product from it's reseller, and then asks the buyer "Why did you buy our product from this wrong source?" There are only two options: or you sell and support the product with the dealer or you don;'t do it so.

     

    Actually, I do not minimize Target responsibility for this situation and try to contact them:

    a) they did not explain me that the telephone is locke even I said I will use it internally and internationally

    b) unfortunately, they are simply unavailabe outside (site taget.com gives "Access Denied" outside US)

     

    * * *

    And the last important thing: there is not such thing as "customer's fault".

     

    No, the point was that if you wanted a truly unlocked device, then why did you buy it from Target?  If you're going pay the same price, why not simply purchase it from the primary source when possible?

     

    And, sorry, but there is something call 'customer fault'.  You have certain personal responsibilities.  You failed to ask the right questions or do the correct research, etcetera.  Apple made all the relevant information available to you.  Apple even has a phone number you can call to ask pre-sales questions

     

    The biggest lie the Devil ever told the world was 'The customer is always right.' 

     

    You are partly to blame in this situation.  It's mostly Target's fault (say, about 90% for not providing you correct information), then you (say about 9%, for not doing the research properly or asking the manufacturer directly, when that was available to you), and then Apple about 1% (specifically that they may need to provide or require better training at third-party stores before those third-parties sell their products... but that's really true for virtually every piece of technology at virtually every big box store).

  • by TJBUSMC1973,

    TJBUSMC1973 TJBUSMC1973 Jan 24, 2016 8:09 AM in response to agershun
    Level 5 (7,636 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 8:09 AM in response to agershun

    Call Apple again.  Ask for a Senior Advisor.  Explain the issue to them and that all you are asking is who is the current carrier of the device in question.  I do not believe that is prohibited or private information.

     

    Apple protects customer information very closely.  But the carrier to which a device is locked isn't private customer information, IMHO.

  • by imobl,

    imobl imobl Jan 24, 2016 8:09 AM in response to agershun
    Level 5 (7,128 points)
    iPhone
    Jan 24, 2016 8:09 AM in response to agershun

    I writing here still have a hope, that Apple has customer loyality managers, who review this (Apple sponsored) forum, and try to solve the small problems like mine.

     

    This forum is for your fellow users to provide technical assistance. Apple presence

    is minimal and is mainly to ensure forum rules and Terms of Use are followed.

     

    To contact Apple directly, use the link from the bottom right of every page in

    this forum          Contact Us

     

    or https://www.apple.com/feedback/

  • by salavatkh,

    salavatkh salavatkh Jan 24, 2016 8:21 AM in response to TJBUSMC1973
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 8:21 AM in response to TJBUSMC1973

    " In regards to 'another point of view', there aren't any points of view, because this isn't about OPINIONS."

     

    I read this sentence 5 times, could not understand. May be my comprehension ability is falling over this.

     

    "It is about FACTS."

     

    That is really amazing. We have different FACTS, which never was a case before you brought.

     

    FACTS. 

    a) Target is official re-seller of Apple products    b) No, they are not official distributor of Apple products

    a) Sold iPhone is UNLOCKED  b) Yes, it is unlocked, but it locks.

    a) Products could be purchased in US  b) No, products could be purchased in US only if they are used in US.

     

    and so on, and on, and on... Now I see facts are different, depending on something else.

     

    "And it really amazes me that people fail to educate themselves prior to making a large or important purchase.  An iPhone is a PHONE.  For it to work correctly, you need a WIRELESS CARRIER.  So, shouldn't' you make sure that your intended carrier is even capable of using the iPhone?  Not all carriers are able to do so.  Also, there is not a global standard that all carriers use.  It's like buying a DVD player in one region, and then not being able to play DVDs from another region, or not being able to plug it in without an adaptor, and so on and so on."

     

    Good point. Does not the education works when OP buys UNLOCKED iPhone? If not, probably, buying UNLOCKED iPhone should be only used with test  equipment, frequency metering, emission testing etc... I think UNLOCKED means what is says in wikipedia:

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_lock

     

    If you have a different version of wiki I should read, please point me to it. If there is a more precise and modern meaning of words SIM LOCK, UNLOCKED, please let me know the link to vocabularly, since English is not my native language.

     

    "Who at Apple ever told you that the iPhone was intended or designed for INTERNATIONAL use?  The answer is: no one.  But the OP (and apparently you) made that assumption."

     

    You think Apple should really SAY that? Wikipedia meaning of UNLOCK could be overwritten by Apple specific statement about working international? 

     

    "You say the world is different outside of the U.S. I'm well aware of this, I've travelled a lot.  But thank you for proving my point.  The world IS different outside of the U.S.  And you seem to be aware of that."

     

    Very well. I quote you to ask the same question (since you travel a lot):


    - "Who at Apple ever told you that the iPhone was intended or designed for INTERNATIONAL use?" Do you just take you iPhone abroad and it simply works outside US, or do you take another phone with you to communicate abroad. If you take you iPhone, why did not you ask Apple for international use of iPhone, like you suggesting it to me?

  • by TJBUSMC1973,

    TJBUSMC1973 TJBUSMC1973 Jan 24, 2016 9:04 AM in response to salavatkh
    Level 5 (7,636 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 9:04 AM in response to salavatkh

    salavatkh wrote:

     

    " In regards to 'another point of view', there aren't any points of view, because this isn't about OPINIONS."

     

    I read this sentence 5 times, could not understand. May be my comprehension ability is falling over this.

     

    "It is about FACTS."

     

    That is really amazing. We have different FACTS, which never was a case before you brought.

     

    FACTS.

    a) Target is official re-seller of Apple products    b) No, they are not official distributor of Apple products

    a) Sold iPhone is UNLOCKED  b) Yes, it is unlocked, but it locks.

    a) Products could be purchased in US  b) No, products could be purchased in US only if they are used in US.

     

    and so on, and on, and on... Now I see facts are different, depending on something else.

     

    "And it really amazes me that people fail to educate themselves prior to making a large or important purchase.  An iPhone is a PHONE.  For it to work correctly, you need a WIRELESS CARRIER.  So, shouldn't' you make sure that your intended carrier is even capable of using the iPhone?  Not all carriers are able to do so.  Also, there is not a global standard that all carriers use.  It's like buying a DVD player in one region, and then not being able to play DVDs from another region, or not being able to plug it in without an adaptor, and so on and so on."

     

    Good point. Does not the education works when OP buys UNLOCKED iPhone? If not, probably, buying UNLOCKED iPhone should be only used with test  equipment, frequency metering, emission testing etc... I think UNLOCKED means what is says in wikipedia:

     

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_lock

     

    If you have a different version of wiki I should read, please point me to it. If there is a more precise and modern meaning of words SIM LOCK, UNLOCKED, please let me know the link to vocabularly, since English is not my native language.

     

    "Who at Apple ever told you that the iPhone was intended or designed for INTERNATIONAL use?  The answer is: no one.  But the OP (and apparently you) made that assumption."

     

    You think Apple should really SAY that? Wikipedia meaning of UNLOCK could be overwritten by Apple specific statement about working international?

     

    "You say the world is different outside of the U.S. I'm well aware of this, I've travelled a lot.  But thank you for proving my point.  The world IS different outside of the U.S.  And you seem to be aware of that."

     

    Very well. I quote you to ask the same question (since you travel a lot):


    - "Who at Apple ever told you that the iPhone was intended or designed for INTERNATIONAL use?" Do you just take you iPhone abroad and it simply works outside US, or do you take another phone with you to communicate abroad. If you take you iPhone, why did not you ask Apple for international use of iPhone, like you suggesting it to me?

     

     

    Yes, you're debating opinions, about what Apple should or should not be responsible for.  I'm quoting facts, about what Apple is actually responsible for, and what responsibility lies with the consumer and the carrier.

     

    A point of view is an OPINION.  Facts don't have a point of view; they simply are facts.

     

    'The speed limit is 65 mph' - FACT.

    'The government should raise the speed limit on this stretch of road to 75 mph because the road is very straight & smooth and cars are safer today then when the speed limit was first set.'  - OPINION (even though you include some facts to SUPPORT your OPINION, it is still an OPINON).

     

    I've looked at the Target website.  No iPhones are listed in their 'unlocked' category.  And all of the iPhones listed have you choose a service provider (AT&T, Verizon or Sprint).  So, I'm not seeing where Target officially states that the iPhones they sell are 'unlocked'.

     

    And even for an 'unlocked' iPhone, once you lock it to a carrier, for it to be unlocked from that carrier for use on another carrier, your current carrier needs to authorize the unlock:  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201328

     

    Quoting a wikipedia article in this discussion is interesting, since that article actually supports my point.  Once your phone is locked to a carrier, that carrier needs to authorize the unlock.

     

    And yes, the Apple article, being specific to iPhones, supersedes the wikipedia article.  Wikipedia is editable by anyone in the world.  Apple articles are published and edited only by Apple.

     

    I didn't assume anything about the intention of international use.  The fact that the OP states he is on the other side of the planet indicates that he made that assumption.  I simply asked why he made that assumption.

     

    When I use my iPhone internationally (which is rarely and for short durations), I either use wi-fi calling if I'm going to be someplace with regular & reliable wi-fi, or I contact my carrier to set up a temporary international roaming plan.  https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT201643

     

    In other words, I educated myself before my purchase, including my options for international usage with my preferred carrier.  The OP did not.

  • by agershun,

    agershun agershun Jan 24, 2016 9:29 AM in response to imobl
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 9:29 AM in response to imobl

    To contact Apple directly, use the link from the bottom right of every page in

    this forum          Contact Us

     

    or https://www.apple.com/feedback/

    Yes, I already did it. Unfortunately, no reaction.

  • by agershun,

    agershun agershun Jan 24, 2016 9:38 AM in response to imobl
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 24, 2016 9:38 AM in response to imobl

    What does it say when you look at Settings>General>About>Carrier?

    You may have to scroll to see the entry for Carrier.

    Unfortunately, I can not say this right now (I read your message too late). I have erased the phone (according Apple's unlocking recommendations), and now iPhone is clean and just shows the initiation screen (set the language, etc.). It still cannot be activated.

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