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Q: Final Cut Pro X H265 Support

As a Final Cut Pro user from the get go, I'm wondering when apple will offer the native H265 capability.

Now that Adobe Premier is offering native H265 support, it's tough not to give their product a serious look.  

Anyone hear anything on the H265 FCPX support front?

Mac Pro, OS X Yosemite (10.10.5)

Posted on Sep 27, 2015 12:30 PM

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Q: Final Cut Pro X H265 Support

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  • by Luis Sequeira1,

    Luis Sequeira1 Luis Sequeira1 Sep 27, 2015 12:49 PM in response to wecreatetv
    Level 6 (12,085 points)
    Mac OS X
    Sep 27, 2015 12:49 PM in response to wecreatetv

    THere is hardly any support for h265 playback yet in most platforms. So if you think h265 export is an advantage consider how your targrt audience may be able to watch your product.

    Apple may implement it if and when they are ready and we users have no idea. Plus speculation is against the rules of this forum.

  • by Tom Wolsky,

    Tom Wolsky Tom Wolsky Sep 27, 2015 1:14 PM in response to wecreatetv
    Level 10 (118,212 points)
    Apple TV
    Sep 27, 2015 1:14 PM in response to wecreatetv

    TO add to what Luis said. The codec is only used by a couple of manufacturers, Sansung I think is one. The codec is still in development and some key components will not be finalized until next year. It's kind of silly to waste resources on it at this stage, however promising it looks.

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Sep 28, 2015 1:05 AM in response to Tom Wolsky
    Level 7 (32,703 points)
    Video
    Sep 28, 2015 1:05 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

    Tom Wolsky wrote:.... The codec is still in development and some key components will not be finalized until next year. ...

    funny fact:.

    many broadcasters, e.g. EBC over here, had 'signed' h.265 as future standard for UHD and terristial delivery, but without knowing 'detail' such as license fees and DRM implementation ....

     

    btmk, a Samsungs vDSLR is the only device officially using h265,

    The saying, iPhones6' implementation of Facetime uses it (I spread it a few times here), can not find any hard facts confirming it.

     

    Finally: h264-coding is hardware accelerated, in many/most devices; to make the most of it, you have to wait for final specs of a new codec, then 'weldering' it into silicium ... pretty sure that can be done in the fabs in Korea and China within weeks … but not done yet.

  • by billshafer,

    billshafer billshafer Jan 27, 2016 1:53 PM in response to Tom Wolsky
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Jan 27, 2016 1:53 PM in response to Tom Wolsky

    My understanding is that h.265 is being used by Netflix and Amazon & this is the codec for their 4k streaming content. And isn't Facebook now h.265-compatible for VR content?

  • by Tom Wolsky,

    Tom Wolsky Tom Wolsky Jan 27, 2016 2:12 PM in response to billshafer
    Level 10 (118,212 points)
    Apple TV
    Jan 27, 2016 2:12 PM in response to billshafer

    You have an H.265 streaming server?

  • by TomWheel,

    TomWheel TomWheel Jan 28, 2016 12:36 PM in response to wecreatetv
    Level 2 (275 points)
    Jan 28, 2016 12:36 PM in response to wecreatetv

    H.265 (aka HEVC) is now in use by Amazon, Netflix, Ultraflix, and numerous other 4K streaming sources for streaming 4K video and movies.  The Roku 4 streaming box has a USB port that accepts h. 265 video and displays it in 4K to 4K TV's.  I have used Roku 4 to playback video projects that I have prepared in FCP X, shared as a ProRes Master file, and then encoded in Adobe's Media Encoder CC to HEVC (h.265).  The video's played perfectly from my Roku 4 player when sent to my Sony 4K video projector (VPL-VW665ES), and looked beautiful on our 100 in. screen. 

     

    Adobe is now supporting HEVC.  The h.265 standards are in place, and there is really no excuse for FCPX not supporting HEVC.  The last update to FCP X was in April 2014.  I would be happy to pay for an update to FCP X that afforded new features like the ability to encode to HEVC (h.265), but be it a paid or free update I believe we are overdue for an update to FCP X. 

     

    Tom

  • by Tom Wolsky,

    Tom Wolsky Tom Wolsky Jan 28, 2016 12:39 PM in response to TomWheel
    Level 10 (118,212 points)
    Apple TV
    Jan 28, 2016 12:39 PM in response to TomWheel
    The last update to FCP X was in April 2014.

     

     

    The last update was September 3, 2015.

  • by TomWheel,

    TomWheel TomWheel Jan 28, 2016 3:54 PM in response to Tom Wolsky
    Level 2 (275 points)
    Jan 28, 2016 3:54 PM in response to Tom Wolsky

    Thanks, Tom.  I forgot the September 3, 2015 update.  I don't recall what that update included, but I don't think it had any new features nor did it correct some bugs present in the April 2015 update.

     

    Tom

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Jan 29, 2016 1:17 AM in response to TomWheel
    Level 7 (32,703 points)
    Video
    Jan 29, 2016 1:17 AM in response to TomWheel

    TomWheel wrote:

     

    H.265 (aka HEVC) is now in use by Amazon, Netflix, Ultraflix, and numerous other 4K streaming sources for streaming 4K video and movies.  …

    what Tom (Wolsky) said: Do you own a server?

    or, in other words, looks like 'broadcast technology', not share tech.

     

    netflix delivers 'adaptive', h264/720, or 1080, and if the stream is fast enough (constant 15mbps… ) and buffered, switches to h265 - so, I think, they ask for some 'master' file (proRes?) and convert to their needs.

     

    hardware acceleration is actually just in some TVs (Samsung axed their h265 cameras, which were the only ones on the market). Does any future Intel chips contain h265-acceleration? (I don't know) What about phones/tabletts? ok, 4k on 5" is .... h265 decoding is very demanding, without a designated h265-chip a battery drainer Which Samsung phones have a designated h265hardware decoder?

     

    … for web-video, YouTube is still the 'master of desaster' (anyone remembers flv?).... what will happen to Googles own VP9? And, as netflix, adaptive streaming ....

     

    I could imagine, Apple leaves it to some 3rd party plugin maker to teach Compressor h265 for the very few needing it. We've seen it with other features in/for FCPX: the smaller the market the more it's a plugin....

     

    btw: Larry Jordan isn't happy with Adobes implemention of h265 ....

  • by TomWheel,

    TomWheel TomWheel Jan 29, 2016 9:01 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 2 (275 points)
    Jan 29, 2016 9:01 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    Karsten,

     

    Owning a server is neither a necessary or sufficient condition for valuing or using the h.265 (HEVC) codec.  This codec was, as you probably know, developed as a successor to h.264 and is designed to offer higher quality than h.264 at significantly smaller file sizes and higher bit rates.  With the growing popularity of 4K video, h.265 becomes more and more useful, especially if you are capturing 4K video on DSLR's or encoding 4K video to play back to current 4K TV's via a USB flash drive. I own and have used for a year the Samsung NX-1 which encodes to h.265.  You are correct that Samsung has, at least for the moment withdrawn from the digital camera market in many countries, although the NX-1 is still for sale here in the U.S.  It is interesting that the Samsung NX-1 was voted by Preview as the "Gear of the Yea" (2015) based on its ground breaking feature set (including h.265) and overall high image quality.  Sometimes as you must surely know, business decisions are contradictory to technological advancements (The Sony betamax vs. VHS format war of many years ago is just one example that comes to mind.)

     

    Virtually all 4K TV's offered in 2015 supported playback of h.265 from USB flash drives, and many of my friends were taking their NX-1 footage into BestBuy and playing it successfully on the 2015 4K TV's. I have no idea whether Intel's newest chips support hardware acceleration for h.265 playback, but I have read that Apple's iPhone 6S and 6S Plus use h.265 for recording 4K video.  You are correct that h.265 decoding is very demanding of the cpu, but the current Late 2013 Mac Pro and  my 2012 Macbook Pro with Retina Display both play back h.265 clips fine in Premiere Pro CC and in Windows 10.  Windows 10 provides native support for 4K playback whereas Adobe has provided the h.265 codec which allows both playback of h.265 and encoding to h.265. 

     

    I have successfully encoded several FCP X projects to h.265 by first sharing them to a master ProRes file and then bringing that into Adobe's Media Encoder and encoding them to h.265.  I play them back using a USB flash drive plugged into my Roku 4 streaming box and send them to a Sony VPL-VW665ES 4K video projector for display on a 100 in. screen.  They look beautiful to me and to others who have seen them.  I don't know what Larry Jordan's problem is with h.265 as implemented by Adobe and I have not seen any comments that he has made to that effect, although I could surely have missed them.  My own experience with.265 in Adobe's Premiere Pro CC and Media Encoder CC have been trouble free and produced excellent results. 

     

    I suspect that the main obstacle to including h.265 implementation in OX X, FCP X, and YouTube is what the usual obstacle is: money.  It is my understanding the the consortium that developed this codec is demanding pay for its use.  Some companies are balking at this.  We shall just have to see how all of this works out, but for now I remain convinced of the superiority of the h.265 codec to h.264, and I hate having to work in Windows 10 or other software on the Mac to encode to this format. 

     

    Tom

  • by Karsten Schlüter,

    Karsten Schlüter Karsten Schlüter Jan 30, 2016 12:36 AM in response to TomWheel
    Level 7 (32,703 points)
    Video
    Jan 30, 2016 12:36 AM in response to TomWheel

    @Tom

     

    I share many of your points (e.g. h265  is more effecient than 264), but it seems hard to explain my point about 'broadcast vs sharing codec':

     

    there's actually no consumer device delivering h265; there's - aside tellies… latest ones - no hardware support for h265, camcorders, photos, phones, laptops, tablets, desktops. So, who is interesting in encoding to h265? What I call 'broadcasters', not in traditional meaning (aerial, BBC) but 'commercial mass deliverers' - netflix/amazon/… , and, actually, YT (which own their own HVCcodec)

     

    but all those 'broadcasters' HAVE to deliver multi-standard = adaptive, because of bandwith (who's able to watch 4k-streams at primetime? that's a very narrow and priviledged group), device (my TV doesn't offer 4k …), usage (4k on handleds ...). So, as a content maker, there's little reason&need to upload in h265 - they will convert it anyhow.

     

    And if I want to share 4k, I can use ye ol h264 anyhow. My 4k cam records in h264 ... converting to h265 would save 20% upload, then YT converts it back to h264 for most of my audience = loss of quality (the pixelpeepers upload in proRes anyhow).

     

    … getting lengthy again, sorry …

     

    aside trouble with patents, money and politics, there's very little need to install h265-encoding ... yet.

    and de-coding either.

    hen vs egg - as long h265 doesn't get hardwired on consumer chips, I don't see h265 as an 'sharing' option. (or you operate your own server ... )

    for an export option, in the Apple-ecosphere it's a business opportunity for a plug-in maker (reminds me of the story with Hamburg Pro Media/MXF support etc)

     

     

    PS: concerning LJ, I was reflecting on that

    https://larryjordan.com/articles/adobe-media-encoder-and-h-265-not-ready-for-pri me-time/

    but missed his update which 'fixes' a few of his concerns ....

     

     

    PPS: btw that's a very refreshing and 'mature' discussion!  … compared to the crusades on some other boards ....

  • by Jim-H,

    Jim-H Jim-H Feb 10, 2016 6:49 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 10, 2016 6:49 AM in response to Karsten Schlüter

    Latest update on 2/4/16 and still no sign of H.265 support.

     

    My digital signage players require their 4K to be H265 only.  Having to use other applications (Handbrake or AME) to get there should be unnecessary. Come on Apple!

  • by Tom Wolsky,

    Tom Wolsky Tom Wolsky Feb 10, 2016 7:10 AM in response to Jim-H
    Level 10 (118,212 points)
    Apple TV
    Feb 10, 2016 7:10 AM in response to Jim-H

    WWe're users here. Can't really help you. You might want to use feedback instead.

  • by Jim-H,

    Jim-H Jim-H Feb 10, 2016 7:26 AM in response to Tom Wolsky
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 10, 2016 7:26 AM in response to Tom Wolsky

    Wasn't really looking for help. Just making a comment about the need for H265 in FCPX.

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