spookyfishuk

Q: network port hangs

Network problem on Mac pros (2006 2.26 4core & 2008 2.8 8core)


Hi,

I have 2 older Mac Pros and I have been having identical problems on each machine...

I have been having a networking problem for some time now where my network connection seems to hang and switch to "self assigned ip". However it only happens in very specific circumstances...


 

Problem:

When large file transfers are happening over the network to a freenas network drive, the network connection will randomly hang until you reboot. This happens when transferring files from one network drive to another or from one disk image to another disk image on the same network drive. I have observed This problem on Mavericks, Yosemite and possibly mountain lion. There is no issue when running lion or earlier. There is also no issue on a 2010 MBP running Mavericks.


 

Things I have tried which have not worked:

  1. Booting in safe mode
  2. Copy files via drag & drop
  3. Copy files via carbon copy cloner
  4. Reset pram
  5. Reset smc
  6. Install a pcie network card which runs off of different .kext's
  7. Repair permissions/disk
  8. Try on Different user accounts
  9. Create a new user account
  10. Reinstall OS
  11. Tried different network cables

 

Things I have tried which DO work:

  1. Boot into snow leopard
  2. Work from a 2010 MBP


Observations I have made:

  1. It can hang after transferring anything from as little as 5gb or after as much as hundreds of gb's
  2. It never hangs under any other circumstances, only file transfers between network drives or disk images on a network drive on Mac Pro running 10.8/9/10
  3. I now have 3 network ports (2x on board, 1x pcie) when the connection hangs on, let's say port 1 the status changes to "self assigned ip". I can remove the cable and plug into port 2 or 3 and get a strong connection with DHCP assigned ip address. Put the cable back into port 1 and it gets stuck on "self assigned ip" again until I reboot. Put the cable back into ports 2 or 3, wait for the green light and then start a data transfer. Before long, that port will go 'dead' too.
  4. As I can get it to work by booting into an older OS, I have ruled out hardware faults
  5. As I can get it to work by using a MBP running mavericks, I have ruled out operating system incompatibility
  6. I have also ruled out faulty cables/switch/router/network drives


Anyone have any ideas?

Many thanks

Mac Pro, OS X Yosemite (10.10.5), 2008 2.8 8core

Posted on Jan 27, 2016 7:06 PM

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Q: network port hangs

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  • by Grant Bennet-Alder,

    Grant Bennet-Alder Grant Bennet-Alder Jan 28, 2016 7:57 AM in response to spookyfishuk
    Level 9 (60,774 points)
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    Jan 28, 2016 7:57 AM in response to spookyfishuk

    my network connection seems to hang and switch to "self assigned ip".

     

    That sort of problem tends to be a really fundamental Physical problem with your network, and generally not a higher-level software problem.

     

    What media are you using for the connection? what other equipment is involved? what settings are you using?

     

    I have also ruled out faulty cables/switch/router/network drives

     

    these are likely the cause of the problem.

  • by spookyfishuk,

    spookyfishuk spookyfishuk Jan 29, 2016 2:05 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Jan 29, 2016 2:05 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    I am using a cisco slm-2048 gigabit ethernet switch, category 6e cables, apple airport extreme, freenas raids. all settings are either automatic or standard (gigabit full duplex).

    The reason why I had said that I ruled out all of these is because the fault ONLY happens on the Mac Pro's running 10.8/9/10. I can't replicate the fault on the Mac Pro's when I boot them into snow leopard, also I can't replicate the fault on any other machine using the same cables, switch, router, drives, OS and settings.

  • by Grant Bennet-Alder,

    Grant Bennet-Alder Grant Bennet-Alder Jan 29, 2016 6:26 AM in response to spookyfishuk
    Level 9 (60,774 points)
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    Jan 29, 2016 6:26 AM in response to spookyfishuk

    jumbo frames or regular frames?

     

    Flow control turned on?

  • by spookyfishuk,

    spookyfishuk spookyfishuk Jan 29, 2016 12:24 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Jan 29, 2016 12:24 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    regular frames with no flow control

    same settings on mac pro, freeness drive and cisco switch.

    I've never really learned much about these settings, would I get better results if I enable jumbo frames and flow control on the macs, drives and switch?

  • by Grant Bennet-Alder,

    Grant Bennet-Alder Grant Bennet-Alder Jan 29, 2016 1:32 PM in response to spookyfishuk
    Level 9 (60,774 points)
    Desktops
    Jan 29, 2016 1:32 PM in response to spookyfishuk

    Jumbo frames often provides a slight overall speed improvement when running at Gigabit speeds.

     

    But I recommend you not enable jumbo frames without also enabling flow control, at least on the Mac, where it is easy to set up. Flow Control allows devices to say "stop, you have sent me too much at once" ... then slightly later say, "proceed".

  • by Grant Bennet-Alder,

    Grant Bennet-Alder Grant Bennet-Alder Jan 29, 2016 1:38 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 9 (60,774 points)
    Desktops
    Jan 29, 2016 1:38 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    you can also use Network Utility to check actual link speed and read error counters.

    If it is not found in Utilities, it can be accessed at:

    System/Library/CoreServices/Applications/Network Utility.app

     

    NetworkUtility Errors.png

     

    There should be no more than an initial  small burst of errors at setup. An increasing number or errors (even slowly increasing) indicates an ongoing physical problem.

  • by spookyfishuk,

    spookyfishuk spookyfishuk Jan 29, 2016 1:42 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Jan 29, 2016 1:42 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    thanks, I will give this a try

  • by spookyfishuk,

    spookyfishuk spookyfishuk Jan 31, 2016 3:20 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Jan 31, 2016 3:20 AM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    I've had some progress with setting everything to jumbo frames although I can't figure out how to activate flow control on the mac while using LACP. I haven't had any errors as you can see below although one of the ports still hangs. before i switched to jumbo frames, 1 port would hang then a few minutes later the other would go down however now, the remaining port seems to be more stable and keeps the connection up for longer.

     

    Untitled 2jpg.jpg

     

    (I don't think I mentioned that I use LACP earlier, but I have tried extensively with a single connection as well as with LACP and it doesn't seem to affect things)

  • by spookyfishuk,

    spookyfishuk spookyfishuk Jan 31, 2016 6:09 AM in response to spookyfishuk
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Jan 31, 2016 6:09 AM in response to spookyfishuk

    looks like I spoke too soon, the second port has just gone down with 0 errors...

     

    both down 2.jpg

    after a quick reboot...

     

    both up.jpg

  • by Grant Bennet-Alder,

    Grant Bennet-Alder Grant Bennet-Alder Jan 31, 2016 7:49 AM in response to spookyfishuk
    Level 9 (60,774 points)
    Desktops
    Jan 31, 2016 7:49 AM in response to spookyfishuk

    Bonding the ports with LACP adds a whole 'nother level of complexity.

     

    There are some posts from users doing this, but they may be mostly on the Server forum.

     

    There were also complaints that the Mac does not load-balance traffic from the same source across the two links, so only a stream with traffic from multiple sources sees any improvement.

  • by spookyfishuk,

    spookyfishuk spookyfishuk Jan 31, 2016 12:08 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Jan 31, 2016 12:08 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    I Can appreciate that bonding does create other complexities, however, when I wrote the original post, the ports were not bonded, I was just using a single port and then switching to a different port when it went down. After your advice to switch to jumbo frames I got excited about an increase in speed (we edit 4K raw video footage) and decided to do a test with it bonded. I have since tried jumbo frames with no bonding but still get issues. It's fair to say that it is far more reliable now but I still get the hangs although less frequent. I'm wondering if it's just cheap hardware built in to the Mac and if I should get a top of the range pcie network card to test

  • by Grant Bennet-Alder,

    Grant Bennet-Alder Grant Bennet-Alder Jan 31, 2016 1:02 PM in response to spookyfishuk
    Level 9 (60,774 points)
    Desktops
    Jan 31, 2016 1:02 PM in response to spookyfishuk

    You already have a top range network card. Why would an aftermarket card be better?

     

    Flow control is available on this page if you are Not using bonding:

     

    NetJumboFlow.png

    .

  • by spookyfishuk,

    spookyfishuk spookyfishuk Feb 11, 2016 4:35 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Feb 11, 2016 4:35 PM in response to Grant Bennet-Alder

    I have managed to do some more testing, flow control when used on the mac, switch, raids etc all has no effect on the problem. The ports still hang when (and only when) a large file transfer is initiated through finder or carbon copy cloner. It's not a case of extensive network activity as we often have final cut performing complex renders over the network and when it does, it stretches the networks read and write to capacity without causing the ports to hang. 

  • by spookyfishuk,

    spookyfishuk spookyfishuk Feb 20, 2016 1:34 AM in response to spookyfishuk
    Level 1 (1 points)
    Feb 20, 2016 1:34 AM in response to spookyfishuk

    So after some more testing, I have found that the problem only occurs with heavy traffic for both send and receive, i.e copying data from one network drive to another network drive. the problem does not happen when say data is copied from network drive to a local disk or from a local disk to a network drive.

     

    So to recap:

     

    Symptoms:

    Network ports hang/freeze when copying data from network drive to network drive using either finder or carbon copy cloner. it only happens on 2006 & 2008 mac pro, it does not happen on macbook pro 2010 using identical settings, OS, network connections/cables, routers, switches, network drives etc etc. It does not happen on OS X 10.6 or earlier, i'm not sure if it happens on 10.7, it definitely happens on 10.8, 10.9, 10.10. (I have 2 drives in my mac pro, one with 10.10 installed and one with 10.6 installed. boot into 10.10 and the problem happens, reboot into 10.6 without changing any network cables/connections/settings and the problem goes away.)

     

    Things tried but don't fix the problem:

    installing pcie network card

    single connection or LACP

    jumbo frames

    flow control

    fresh OS install

    PRAM/SMC reset

    permissions/disk repair

    deleting and re-installing network card kexts/drivers

     

    Work arounds:

    copy files from network drive to local drive and then from local drive back to network drive

    boot into 10.6

    don't use mac pro, instead use macbook pro

    use wifi

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