mmbridges

Q: Re-flashing iPhone 5 firmware

What prevents the Apple store, where I purchased my iPhone 5, from re-flashing firmware so that it is back to the state it was in when shipped from the factory which was a generic CDMA policy not associated with any carrier?

 

Is it a legal/policy barrier or is it a technological barrier?

iPhone 5, iOS 9.2.1

Posted on Jan 31, 2016 9:34 PM

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Q: Re-flashing iPhone 5 firmware

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  • by mmbridges,

    mmbridges mmbridges Feb 2, 2016 11:53 AM in response to Lawrence Finch
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 2, 2016 11:53 AM in response to Lawrence Finch

    Lawrence Finch wrote:

     

     

    So Lawrence, when the phone comes from the Apple plant, would you agree there is nothing restricting its use on any CDMA carrier?

     

    If so then when my wife went to the apple store and asked that the phone be purchased under contract from Sprint as part of an upgrade (she was giving me an iphone 5 to replace my old windows mobile phone), i would suspect sometime after that point firmware was flashed that "locked" my phone to sprint. Is this correct?

     

    Yes, and no. CDMA phones are not locked to a carrier. If the MEID of the phone is in the carrier's database then the phone is "locked" to that carrier. If the phone is not in the carrier's database then you cannot use the phone with that carrier. All carriers worked this way until about April of last year. Verizon then started accepting non-Verizon iPhone 6 series, and later iPhone 6S series that were not in their database. But not iPhone 5 series. Your iPhone 5 is a dual mode phone; it has 2 radios, a CDMA and a GSM/LTE. The GSM side is locked to Sprint. The CDMA is not, but there is no other carrier (meaning Verizon, the only other CDMA carrier in the US) who will allow it on their network. But the GSM is locked, and always has been if it was sold for use with Sprint. And only Sprint can unlock it. And Sprint is the only carrier who followed the letter of the FCC ruling that said that phones sold after a certain date must be unlocked by the carrier. All of the other carriers in the US will unlock any phone that is out of contract, but not Sprint. And, by the letter of the law, they don't have to.

    So what confuses me is that there appears to be two databases (the one at Apple that controls how iTunes puts new software/firmware on the device and the database you refer to as being a "carrier's database".

     

    When I first spoke to the Verizon rep about porting my phone number and phone from Sprint he asked for my IMIE number. He said depending on that number my phone could or could not be used on the Verizon network. He came back and said that IMIE number was indeed "in their database" and that it was a Verizon phone. He was surprised because I told him it is currently in use by me on the sprint network. He then asked where I bought it and I told him at the Apple Store. He then said that made sense because often the phones at the Apple store can be provisioned to work with any carrier. He also mentioned that for some reason Verizon phones (i.e. in their database)  could be made to work on other carriers but often not the the way around. Because my IMIE was in their database he mailed me out a Verizon SIM card but said I would still have to get Sprint to "unlock" my phone.

     

    Lawrence, can you make any sense of what the Verizon rep told me and resolve it with your understanding of how things work?

     

    Also, since the term "unlock" seems critical to the conversation, what is your best definition?  From above one might interpret a phones locked status as being solely determined by the presence or absence of an IMIE/MEID number in the carrier's database.  Is that a robust definition that stands on its own?

     

    At the end of the day I think the critical point is the law does not require Sprint to "unlock" phones prior to I believe Feb 11,2015. I am going to have to look up that wording for my own peace of mind. I would still like your thoughts on the above earlier points.

     

    Thanks for you insight!

  • by deggie,

    deggie deggie Feb 2, 2016 12:01 PM in response to mmbridges
    Level 9 (54,676 points)
    iPhone
    Feb 2, 2016 12:01 PM in response to mmbridges

    There is no such thing as "flashing" your phone back to its factory state. You've been told this several times.

     

    The GSM side of the iPhone is unlocked through the procedure I described earlier. There is no means to use an MSL code no matter how many times Sprint misinforms you on this matter.

     

    The database Apple maintains reports the lock status of the GSM side of the iPhone. If you process an unlock request through Sprint and they agree to unlock the GSM side of your iPhone then they notify Apple and Apple removes the locking information. Then when you Restore the iPhone as a NEW iPhone in iTunes (and the Apple Store can do this for you if you don't have a computer but make a Genius Bar appointment before you go) you will get the message, "Congratulations, your iPhone has been unlocked." As I wrote in an earlier post.

     

    There is no firmware to be flashed.

     

    Now is it clear?

  • by mmbridges,

    mmbridges mmbridges Feb 2, 2016 12:26 PM in response to deggie
    Level 1 (0 points)
    Feb 2, 2016 12:26 PM in response to deggie

    deggie wrote:

     

    There is no such thing as "flashing" your phone back to its factory state. You've been told this several times.

     

    The GSM side of the iPhone is unlocked through the procedure I described earlier. There is no means to use an MSL code no matter how many times Sprint misinforms you on this matter.

     

    The database Apple maintains reports the lock status of the GSM side of the iPhone. If you process an unlock request through Sprint and they agree to unlock the GSM side of your iPhone then they notify Apple and Apple removes the locking information. Then when you Restore the iPhone as a NEW iPhone in iTunes (and the Apple Store can do this for you if you don't have a computer but make a Genius Bar appointment before you go) you will get the message, "Congratulations, your iPhone has been unlocked." As I wrote in an earlier post.

     

    There is no firmware to be flashed.

     

    Now is it clear?

    I Don't remember being told "there is no such thing as flashing my phone back to its factory state. And this is the first time I heard "there is no firmware to be flashed". To be clear are you saying the iPhone 5 does not contain EEPROM? If it does how does it get "programmed", (what the P stands for) other than by "flashing", a term commonly used to describe the EEPROM "programming" process?

  • by deggie,

    deggie deggie Feb 2, 2016 12:30 PM in response to mmbridges
    Level 9 (54,676 points)
    iPhone
    Feb 2, 2016 12:30 PM in response to mmbridges

    The only thing that can be changed in regards to the phone service is the nanoSIM from a cell provider. There is no EPROM to flash or that is flashable in the iPhone.

  • by LACAllen,

    LACAllen LACAllen Feb 2, 2016 12:49 PM in response to mmbridges
    Level 5 (5,224 points)
    iCloud
    Feb 2, 2016 12:49 PM in response to mmbridges

    re:

     

    your question #1 - no idea.

    your question #2 - couldn't tell you.

    your question #3 - see answers to #1 and #2.

     

    Not sure how any of this matters really. Even you had a recent schematic of how this all works, Apple isn't your obstacle.

     

    The devil you must make a deal with is the carrier who as your phone locked. Your original question, lo those many days ago, was it this a policy issue or technical.

     

    It's a barrier. Label it how you wish.

  • by Lawrence Finch,

    Lawrence Finch Lawrence Finch Feb 2, 2016 6:37 PM in response to mmbridges
    Level 8 (38,112 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 2, 2016 6:37 PM in response to mmbridges

    Every iPhone since the 4S has a record in Apple's database. While the database is managed by Apple, the data about a phone in Apple's database is "owned" by the carrier, not by Apple. So Apple cannot legally edit the record without authorization from the carrier. Prior to the 4S only GSM phone's lock status were recorded in Apple's database; CDMA phones were not. The database record for your phone contains information about the lock status of the GSM side of the phone. It can be unlocked, regionally unlocked, or locked to a carrier. If it is locked to a carrier or regionally unlocked (which means locked to a carrier, but unlocked by that carrier for certain geographies, such as "not in the US") then the GSM radio is considered locked. A CDMA carrier can choose to support only the CDMA side of a phone, but none do except for the iPhone 4/CDMA and earlier. As CDMA is being phased out, this is not a surprise. As the phone is apparently recorded as locked to Sprint in Apple's database you can only use the GSM/LTE radios with Sprint, not with Verizon. Verizon will not activate a phone that supports GSM/LTE for CDMA only; they will only activate a phone that supports GSM/LTE and is unlocked for it.

     

    The most recent information we have heard is that if you have an unlocked (meaning GSM/LTE unlocked) iPhone 6, 6+, 6S or 6S+ Verizon will allow you to register it on their network. This "BYOD" (Bring Your Own Device) is a relatively new policy for Verizon. Again, the last we heard is that these are the only phones that Verizon will do this for. The source for this information is a Verizon support rep who is also active in Apple Support Communities. If you get the phone unlocked by Sprint (if you can) you can use it on AT&T or T-Mobile.

     

    As has already been mentioned, iPhones are not unlocked with a code. If a carrier agrees to unlock a phone they send an electronic request to Apple to change the lock status in the database, and about a day later you can Restore iOS on the phone to unlock it. The Restore process re-activates the phone by querying Apple's database, and, if the phone has been properly unlocked, iTunes will display a message saying that the phone is unlocked.

  • by Lawrence Finch,

    Lawrence Finch Lawrence Finch Feb 3, 2016 6:06 PM in response to mmbridges
    Level 8 (38,112 points)
    Mac OS X
    Feb 3, 2016 6:06 PM in response to mmbridges

    mmbridges wrote:

     

     

    I think you have already stated that overiding the database entries would be a violation of their contracts withe carriers. But does flashing to the factory state firmware, if technically possible, also violate their contract with the carriers?

    The lock status of an iPhone is not stored on the phone. It is stored in a database. When you activate the phone it connects to the database and reads the lock status, then enforces it. There is nothing to flash on the phone. The only software on the phone is a boot loader and the iOS operating system. The boot loader is in ROM (not programmable; old-fashioned ROM, not EEPROM, or flash memory, but permanent ROM). Everything else is loaded when you install or restore iOS, including the modem firmware (which is carrier-specific), the carrier settings, the operating system, and the default applications.

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