shattre

Q: Huge Continuous Controller latency

I just bought an Arturia Keylab 88 and have been modifying my layout to coincide with all the controllers. One thing I noticed is that MainStage really starts freaking out with all the midi data if I start getting busy on even ONE controller. Looking through MIDI Monitor, it appears that the Keylab sends a lot finer grain of midi data from controllers than my old Alesis QS8. This is especially a problem the expression pedal which I typically have on CC4 (to avoid pre-existing CC11 settings) and use mainly for Wah leads. Suddenly, in the middle of a solo, things will just start feeling sluggish, the on-screen expression control gets farther and farther behind, and if I try to switch patches soon afterwards, it won't switch immediately. When I start using TWO controllers, like pitch and expression, everything just goes to ****.

 

I've tried everything from removing ALL on-screen controllers and just using routing assignments, and it STILL is completely screwed up. HELP!

MainStage, OS X Mavericks (10.9)

Posted on Mar 15, 2016 4:15 PM

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Q: Huge Continuous Controller latency

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  • by mikmanmikman,

    mikmanmikman mikmanmikman Mar 16, 2016 9:03 AM in response to shattre
    Level 1 (19 points)
    Mar 16, 2016 9:03 AM in response to shattre

    Does this happen when using the USB midi as well as the midi socket output?  In other words, see if the other works any better...

     

    Was thinking of buying one myself, interesting problem!

  • by yfrulla,

    yfrulla yfrulla Mar 17, 2016 8:44 AM in response to shattre
    Level 1 (47 points)
    Audio
    Mar 17, 2016 8:44 AM in response to shattre

    interesting ..!

     

    I also am looking into trying the Keylab 88 as a controller with Mainstage .

    HAve you recorded some CC moves in a Logic track and see what it looks like ?

    the midi spec implies that there's 128 steps in a CC controller data stream ( except for pitch bend I think )  . I'm not sure if the output of a CC controller through a USB port would imply a different resolution though but I would also try the same CC stream through the MIDI port to see if there's a difference .

     

    please report back with your findings

     

    Thanks

  • by aerol,

    aerol aerol Mar 17, 2016 1:58 PM in response to yfrulla
    Level 3 (555 points)
    iOS Apps
    Mar 17, 2016 1:58 PM in response to yfrulla

    Right... MIDI should be 128 values no matter if it's a MIDI cable or USB. My thought, after quickly checking the manual for this device, is that the controller is sending more than just CC. You can configure knobs on the device to send other kinds of MIDI data so perhaps check that first.. I think it was in the Edit Mode section of the manual.

     

    Also, maybe post a screen shot of MIDI Monitor so we can see the data that's coming in.

  • by shattre,

    shattre shattre Mar 19, 2016 5:47 AM in response to shattre
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Mar 19, 2016 5:47 AM in response to shattre

    The way the Keylab controllers are setup, any single controller can only send out one type of data at a time. You CAN set a controller to do any number of things from MIDI CC to MMC or patch changes, but each controller only has one setting. MIDI monitor isn't reporting any other type of data either. However, what I am finding is that the resolution and time grain for controller data is far higher than on my old board. On my Alesis QS8, if you rocked the foot pedal forward at a moderately quick rate, you maybe got 12 values between 0-127, with the Keylab, you get between 60-90. I believe MainStage is actually having some difficulty keeping up with this. It may be a slight bug in the 3D rendering of the on-screen control. I'll try replacing it with a slider and see whether that helps.

  • by shattre,

    shattre shattre Mar 19, 2016 2:00 PM in response to shattre
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Mar 19, 2016 2:00 PM in response to shattre

    Alright, I found a solution! This gets kind of technical, but just maybe it'll solve some problems down the line. For whatever reason, having high resolution data streams going to a lot of CSs seems to hit Mainstage's processing pretty hard. My new Keylab has MUCH higher resolution output of the foot controller than my old Alesis, or even higher resolution than it's own sliders, wheels and encoders (about 175% as much data is sent from the foot pedal than the mod wheel). So a patch with a combination of many instrument CSs (doesn't matter what kind or whether they're using the data), lots of data, and (get this) the number of controllers on the screen total, ends up impacting this latency problem.

     

    THE SOLUTION:

     

    The moment a controller is manually assigned to one or more destinations inside a patch (through the Screen Control Inspector) it immediately stops streaming to all non-asigned controllers. Therefor, all I need to do is assign the foot pedal to the specific CSs that use it, and everything else speeds up considerably.

     

    Thank you all who've been following this. Maybe I'll write a report to Apple, could help to shed some light on some larger issues, as this seems like a very bizarre interaction between onscreen controllers and data handling. I mean, all things considered, MIDI data streams, even fairly hi resolution ones, are a pittance compared to todays most rudimentary number crunching, surprising that MS is struggling at all.

  • by yfrulla,

    yfrulla yfrulla Mar 19, 2016 2:45 PM in response to shattre
    Level 1 (47 points)
    Audio
    Mar 19, 2016 2:45 PM in response to shattre

    Thanks for reporting back your findings .

     

    it is weird that MainStage can't seem to be able to process a  dense stream of MIDI CC controls properly though ..

     

    I am currently using a Yamaha Motif ES as a controller and it's MIDI resolution on CC's might not be a " dense " as the Keylab but I think it should be close to it .

     

    I never experienced any glitches regarding this but I guess it all depends on the routings and stuff .

     

    Glad to hear that there's a workaround this with Keylab .

     

    Are you using the latest version of MainStage ?  Which OS are you on ?  Are you satisfied with your overall experience with the Key lab 88 and MainStage ?

     

    best regards

  • by shattre,

    shattre shattre Mar 23, 2016 7:23 PM in response to yfrulla
    Level 1 (14 points)
    Mar 23, 2016 7:23 PM in response to yfrulla

    MainStage 3.2.3. But I noticed this on 3.2.2 and possibly earlier versions too, I don't think it's a recent bug, more one I've been waiting for them to fix. I'm still on Mavericks. Since all of my income is tied to using my computer (some of it gigging with MainStage), I'm extremely wary of upgrading, but I've been thinking about doing it soon.

     

    As for satisfaction of the Keylab 88 and MainStage? They go together like corned beef and cabbage!

  • by mikmanmikman,

    mikmanmikman mikmanmikman Jun 21, 2016 5:50 AM in response to shattre
    Level 1 (19 points)
    Jun 21, 2016 5:50 AM in response to shattre

    Hi,

     

    Shattre, I don't know the phrase 'corned beef and cabbage'.  Does this mean they go together very well?  Thinking of going the same way, just need to check if I'm doing the right thing!

     

    Thanks.

  • by lifenoise,

    lifenoise lifenoise Jun 21, 2016 6:18 AM in response to mikmanmikman
    Level 3 (758 points)
    Jun 21, 2016 6:18 AM in response to mikmanmikman

    You can block unassigned MIDI data at concert level>assignments & mapping>concert settings>MIDI. Uncheck send unassigned MIDI to all channels strips.

    Screen Shot 2016-06-21 at 9.11.05 AM.png