Q: Why cant Siri work offline?

Meg St._Clair wrote:

 

Whickwithy wrote:

 

Meg St._Clair wrote:

 

Did you need me to translate that into some other language?

Read from the beginning of the thread.

Now I'm not sure what you mean. I've been following this thread since it started. You're the only person to bring up RAM. Demo was not talking about RAM when he was talking about the space necessary to store large databases. RAM is memory the computer uses to run programs in. Storage memory (think your hard drive) is where things like databases are stored. Larry will correct me if I'm wrong but, I don't believe Siri needs large amounts of RAM to run. It's therefore, not relevant to the discussion of why Siri requires a data connection.

Siri doesn't need large amounts of RAM, but local speech recognition does; a GB or more. In order to perform in real time it must keep the entire dictionary in RAM. Which is why iOS, which has probably less than 0.5GB of RAM available to applications can't do it.

Lawrence Finch wrote:

 

Meg St._Clair wrote:

 

Whickwithy wrote:

 

Meg St._Clair wrote:

 

Did you need me to translate that into some other language?

Read from the beginning of the thread.

Now I'm not sure what you mean. I've been following this thread since it started. You're the only person to bring up RAM. Demo was not talking about RAM when he was talking about the space necessary to store large databases. RAM is memory the computer uses to run programs in. Storage memory (think your hard drive) is where things like databases are stored. Larry will correct me if I'm wrong but, I don't believe Siri needs large amounts of RAM to run. It's therefore, not relevant to the discussion of why Siri requires a data connection.

Siri doesn't need large amounts of RAM, but local speech recognition does; a GB or more. In order to perform in real time it must keep the entire dictionary in RAM. Which is why iOS, which has probably less than 0.5GB of RAM available to applications can't do it.

Thank you. I was hoping you'd step in with a clarification.

One of the then-momentous features Siri brought to the table was that it enabled ANYBODY to use it. Dictation, speech recognition and voice controlled systems required training and extensive user preparation to function reliably and consistently, and they were usually language-specific. Siri did away with that. How? By doing an enormous amount of behind-the-scenes digital processing of the sound samples it collected. No mobile, battery-powered device to this day has anywhere near the computing requirements to be able to do that. Hence the need to have access to such resources.

And even now and with all the caveats, nobody (Apple's Siri, MS' Cortana or Google's Whatchamacallher) is good enough to be entrusted with potentially life-threatening decisions or capabilities. Which is why there are things Siri just won't do.

Which is why iOS, which has probably less than 0.5GB of RAM available to applications can't do it.

The smallest iPod starts with 16 GB, call it 12 GB after the OS, etc is loaded.

Whickwithy wrote:

 

Which is why iOS, which has probably less than 0.5GB of RAM available to applications can't do it.

 

The smallest iPod starts with 16 GB, call it 12 GB after the OS, etc is loaded.

You are confusing Storage ("disk") with RAM. You seem to understand the difference on your Mac; why can't you grasp it on your iPod? All newer iOS devices have 1GB of RAM, regardless of whether thy have 8 GB of STORAGE or 128 GB of STORAGE.

And, what exactly do you think that "storage" is made up of?

Whickwithy wrote:

 

And, what exactly do you think that "storage" is made up of?

It is NOT made up of RAM. Storage is your hard drive. In the iPod, it's a solid state drive. This is a completely different component than the RAM. Just because they are both measured in gigabytes doesn't mean they are the same thing anymore than, because they are both measured in gallons (or liters depending on your country) milk and gasoline are the same thing.

Meg St._Clair wrote:

 

Whickwithy wrote:

 

And, what exactly do you think that "storage" is made up of?

It is NOT made up of RAM. Storage is your hard drive. In the iPod, it's a solid state drive. This is a completely different component than the RAM. Just because they are both measured in gigabytes doesn't mean they are the same thing anymore than, because they are both measured in gallons (or liters depending on your country) milk and gasoline are the same thing.

Wow, now I know why my car wouldn't start and my cereal tasted so bitter.

They are also both liquids. I can see how you'd get confused.

Do you know what "solid state" means?  Do you know what the actual components are?  I'd tell you but where's the fun in that?

Whooops!  Should have been in response to Meg.

I know EXACTLY what they are, but you do not. Storage is NAND static flash memory. It is external to the processor. RAM is dynamic memory that resides inside the processor chip, and is roughly 50 times faster than the storage memory. They are not interchangeable.

My friend, you're beginning to strike me as someone who really doesn't wish to be helped.

You may be running short on time here. You've been told 3 different times about storage vs. RAM and it is a key concept for you to grasp as it relates to your original question.

Thanks, LA.  There's really nothing to be helped with, in the first place, unless someone wishes to develop a product that does not need to be connected to the internet to do dictation.  I am not so sure that RAM vs. "storage" really does relate.  The only thing that made any sense was the possibility that the mac uses its hard drive (note that that is STORAGE) for dictation, which it has a lot of STORAGE, and, probably, that the processor on the iOS products are pretty primitive.  The speed of the solid state memory shouldn't make a big diff when considering the speed of speech.

I just get annoyed.  RAM and Flash are both solid state memory.  The real difference between the two is speed and volatility.  RAM is not always on the processor, though that may be the case with iOS products.  Also, NAND flash memory is random access.  It really is beating a dead horse. 

I'll just drop the "follow" on this thread.

Ah!  I finally get it.  The NAND is only USED as storage.

Whickwithy wrote:

 

Ah!  I finally get it.  The NAND is only USED as storage.

Actually, you don't get it. If NAND was used as working memory you would have to say words 5 minutes apart so each one could be looked up. It's not that is is only USED as storage; it only CAN BE USED as storage; it is too slow for any other purpose.

Yes, RAM and NAND are both solid state memory. And, as Meg pointed out, milk and gasoline are both liquids.