léonie
Level 10 (106,946 points)
iLife

Q: Where is it save to store a Photos Library? Requirements for the external drive

Apple's support documents have been a bit vague about the requirements for a drive to host the Photos Library.

It is not even clear, if Photos can work a file system, that is not HFS+:  This restriction is only mentioned for system Photos Libraries, that sync with iCloud (https://help.apple.com/photos/mac/1.0/?lang=en#/pht211de786)

By default, your System Photo Library is stored in the Pictures folder on your Mac, but you can move it to another location on your Mac or store it on an external storage device. However, to use iCloud services, the external storage device must be formatted using Mac OS Extended (Journaled) format, also known as HFS+.

But it is clear from experiments when migrating libraries, that Photos cannot migrate iPhoto Libraries or Aperture Libraries to a Photos Library, if the file system is not HFS+.  It will try to create the migrated library on the system drive instead (probably because it cannot create hard links on the drive)  and usually fail by running out of storage.

 

At least Apple confirmed now, that it is not safe to store the Photos Library in a synced Cloud storage, see: Updating from iPhoto to Photos for OS X - Apple Support

 

If you store your Photos library in a location that's part of a cloud service (for example, Dropbox, Box, or Google Drive), your library might be damaged by the syncing process. As a result, you could lose photos.

To see your photos on all your devices, you can use iCloud Photo Library. To back up your library, you can use Time Machine.

 

I have still not found any support documents, that states clearly if a Photos Library can be stored on a NAS; if it not to be used as a System Photos Library.  For Aperture Libraries or iPhoto Libraries the recommendation by Apple was clear:   Use locally mounted Mac OS X Extended volumes for your Aperture library

 

Has anybody found a similar document for Photos?

MacBook Pro (Retina, 15-inch, Mid 2015), OS X El Capitan (10.11.4), 2,8 GHz Intel Core i7, 1TB SSD

Posted on May 6, 2016 11:37 AM

by LarryHN,Solvedanswer
LarryHN LarryHN
Level 10 (84,646 points)
Photos for Mac
A:

Apple Documentation - None that II'v seen

 

But as You are aware there are many, many examples of libraries on non HFS+ drives failing resulting in lost data and even photos for users - usually when these libraries are moved back to an HFS+ drive they start working without repair so the issues seem to me to be with access not actually with storage - I've not tested (I have no non HFS+ drives) but even without documentation it seems very clear to me that libraries on a non HFS+ drive fail sooner or later (reports indicate that they may work for months or years and then just fail)

 

These type of issues are the exact reason that I find it upsetting that Apple will not allow high level ASC users some internal Apple access - an hour discussion between you and an Apple engineer could clear up a lot of user problems and possibly even give Apple information to  improve user satisfaction - for now I believe that the only safe course it to keep the iPhoto and Photos libraries on an HFS+ drive with a fast wired connection that is not used as a TimeMachine backup volume

 

I certainly wish Apple would confirm or deny this but since they choose not to bother I believe that we have to rely on the many experiences that  HFS+ is required

 

 

LN

Posted on May 7, 2016 6:12 AM

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léonie

Q: Where is it save to store a Photos Library? Requirements for the external drive

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  • Helpful answers

  • by Never_on_a_Sunday,

    Never_on_a_Sunday Never_on_a_Sunday May 7, 2016 3:16 AM in response to léonie
    Level 1 (12 points)
    Photography
    May 7, 2016 3:16 AM in response to léonie

    Is it possible to store referenced original files on iCloud Drive or in Dropbox?

  • by léonie,

    léonie léonie May 7, 2016 3:30 AM in response to Never_on_a_Sunday
    Level 10 (106,946 points)
    iLife
    May 7, 2016 3:30 AM in response to Never_on_a_Sunday

    A good question!

    The Photos Help does not provide any information on requirements for the location of referenced files.   https://help.apple.com/photos/mac/1.0/?lang=en#/pht12e7a8015

    It only states that referenced files cannot be used with iCloud Photo Library.

     

    I tested with two different locations for referenced files with a small test library:  With the referenced files on iCloud Drive and  in a DropBox folder.

    The Photos Library lost continually the connection to the referenced originals for all two  locations, and I cannot recommend to reference originals on iCloud Drive or in a Dropbox folder.

     

    Referenced files after one hour in iCloud Drive:

    Screen Shot 2016-05-07 at 12.14.18GMT.png

  • by LarryHN,Solvedanswer

    LarryHN LarryHN May 7, 2016 6:12 AM in response to léonie
    Level 10 (84,646 points)
    Photos for Mac
    May 7, 2016 6:12 AM in response to léonie

    Apple Documentation - None that II'v seen

     

    But as You are aware there are many, many examples of libraries on non HFS+ drives failing resulting in lost data and even photos for users - usually when these libraries are moved back to an HFS+ drive they start working without repair so the issues seem to me to be with access not actually with storage - I've not tested (I have no non HFS+ drives) but even without documentation it seems very clear to me that libraries on a non HFS+ drive fail sooner or later (reports indicate that they may work for months or years and then just fail)

     

    These type of issues are the exact reason that I find it upsetting that Apple will not allow high level ASC users some internal Apple access - an hour discussion between you and an Apple engineer could clear up a lot of user problems and possibly even give Apple information to  improve user satisfaction - for now I believe that the only safe course it to keep the iPhoto and Photos libraries on an HFS+ drive with a fast wired connection that is not used as a TimeMachine backup volume

     

    I certainly wish Apple would confirm or deny this but since they choose not to bother I believe that we have to rely on the many experiences that  HFS+ is required

     

     

    LN

  • by léonie,

    léonie léonie May 7, 2016 6:42 AM in response to LarryHN
    Level 10 (106,946 points)
    iLife
    May 7, 2016 6:42 AM in response to LarryHN

    Thank you Larry. Based on the past experience the Photos libraries on drives that are not locally mounted and not formatted OS X Extended (Journaled, not case-sensitive) are a disaster waiting to happen.  It is a pity, that we do not have a conclusive document with the requirements.

     

    usually when these libraries are moved back to an HFS+ drive they start working without repair so the issues seem to me to be with access not actually with storage -

    With Aperture libraries and iPhoto Libraries I could track down the problem to broken references between the internal databases and the image files. some pathnames that are perfectly o.k. on the system drive may not work on incorrectly formatted external drives. Trying to copy the library back can then result in "error -36".

  • by LarryHN,

    LarryHN LarryHN May 7, 2016 6:41 AM in response to léonie
    Level 10 (84,646 points)
    Photos for Mac
    May 7, 2016 6:41 AM in response to léonie

    Yes and Yes - and worse that we have no way to get the definitive information (or an ACS spell checked that works )

     

    LN

  • by Old Toad,Helpful

    Old Toad Old Toad May 7, 2016 9:30 AM in response to léonie
    Level 10 (141,105 points)
    Mac OS X
    May 7, 2016 9:30 AM in response to léonie

    Thanks to léonie steering me to this Apple document which discusses libraries on iCloud servers,  Updating from iPhoto to Photos for OS X - Apple Support  , which are not unlike local NAS servers.  The following is from that document:

    If you store your Photos library in a location that's part of a cloud service (for example, Dropbox, Box, or Google Drive), your library might be damaged by the syncing process. As a result, you could lose photos.

    To see your photos on all your devices, you can use iCloud Photo Library. To back up your library, you can use Time Machine.

    OTsig.png

  • by léonie,

    léonie léonie May 7, 2016 9:30 AM in response to Old Toad
    Level 10 (106,946 points)
    iLife
    May 7, 2016 9:30 AM in response to Old Toad

    Exactly, OT.  Thank you!  This document prompted my original post.

    It confirms the dangers of a synced cloud storage like Dropbox, Google Drive, or iCloud Drive.

     

    But what about remote storage, that is not synced?  Just remotely mounted, network access, and a different file system?

     

    For Aperture libraries and iPhoto Libraries we had support documents that confirmed "Locally mounted" and OS X Extended": For photos it is still strangely missing. 

  • by Old Toad,

    Old Toad Old Toad May 7, 2016 9:39 AM in response to léonie
    Level 10 (141,105 points)
    Mac OS X
    May 7, 2016 9:39 AM in response to léonie

    We need to push the subject with Apple via https://www.apple.com/feedback/photos.html until we get some form of official guidance.

  • by léonie,

    léonie léonie May 7, 2016 9:45 AM in response to Old Toad
    Level 10 (106,946 points)
    iLife
    May 7, 2016 9:45 AM in response to Old Toad

    We will have to push harder, then! 

     

    I would really like a confirmation by Apple too on this titbit I found in the PowerPhotos documentation:

     

    :  https://www.fatcatsoftware.com/powerphotos/Help/sharing%20a%20library%20between% 20multiple%20user%20accounts%20on%20one%20mac.html

     

    Sharing a library between multiple user accounts on one Mac

    Photos is not designed with multi-user use in mind, which makes it very difficult to create a setup where a single Photos library can be accessed from multiple accounts on your Mac. If you wish to share a library this way, the following restrictions will apply (for the below discussion, assume we have two users named A and B that we want to share a library):

     

    1. Only one user account can ever have a given library open in Photos at a time. Before you can use the shared library as user A, you must first make sure to quit Photos as user B.
    2. None of the user accounts that are accessing the library can designate it as their "system library". The system library is effectively open at all times by OS X in the background as long as that user is logged in, so even quitting Photos will not free up the library so that another user can open it. You must either designate a different library as the system library, or fully log out user B before trying to access the library as user A. Note that this also precludes having this library sync with iCloud.
    3. The library cannot be stored on your internal drive, or any other drive where permissions are respected. Fighting against permissions on OS X is a losing battle; while you can play whack-a-mole trying to fix permissions on the library before you open it, something will eventually go awry and it's likely you'll be unable to access some portion of your library. You should store the library on an external drive, and in the Get Info window in the Finder, make sure that the "Ignore ownership on this volume" checkbox is checked.