Q: Another Anti-virus Question

I can understand having no choice but to install an anti-virus program on a computer at work, but you shouldn't put one on your Mac at home.  Apple computers do not need anti-virus protection at this time.

and I realize you have to do this but I'm trying to give you the argument I need to make about twice a year to the people who oversee our Windows IT (I oversee the Mac OS part of it) about what is the best wood-chipper to stick your foot into because they would like to implement a company wide wood-chipper deployment strategy.

In case you are confused by some of the replies in this Discussion, Windows users are responsible for their own system security. So-called "Information Technology" personnel demonstrate their ignorance by imposing inappropriate third party security products upon Mac users. Please read Effective defenses against malware and other threats.

"Intego" is one of many ill-conceived products that will increase one's overall exposure to threats of various descriptions. It will also result in significant performance degradation. None of those products convey any benefit.

Sigh! I see people are still persisting in the blanket statement that no Mac users of any persuasion should ever, ever install Anti-Virus software as such software is un-necessary, the work of satan, will infest you with boils, etc. etc. etc.

As someone who has owned and used Macs since they first came out in 1984 I can say yes, Macs have always suffered less to almost nothing from malware aka. viruses. However it is becoming increasingly foolish to claim that there is still no threat to Macs, because there is, and the threats are becoming more common and more serious. For example recently the first Ransomware for a Mac was released in the wild. See http://www.cnet.com/uk/news/apple-users-beware-first-live-ransomware-targeting-m ac-found-in-the-wild/

So first the basics.

• Yes there is far less malware that can affect a Mac
• Even what little malware is around generally does far less damage on a Mac than would happen on a PC
• Yes a knowledgable Mac user is unlikely to ever get infected with malware both due to the scarcity of such, and the fact it is harder for such to infect a Mac
• However the chances of this is not zero and is increasing

Currently the most common ways for a Mac to be infected by malware is by visiting websites which try and push it to you which usually involves tricking you, e.g. 'Install this to clean your Mac', 'install this to speed up your Mac', 'You need this updated Adobe Flash to access this content', etc., or by receiving a fake email with a virus attachment worded to again to try and trick you in to installing it.

It is also the case that anti-virus software is not a complete solution, they all have to play catch-up with new strains of malware.

• So does the average Mac home user need anti-virus software - the answer is no
• Does a Mac business user in an all Mac office need anti-virus software - not really need, but it might be a worthwhile precaution
• Does a Mac business user in a mixed office or who has clients with Windows PCs need anti-virus software - probably yes simply to prevent passing it on to Windows users with the risk that this might infect your boss, or worse an important client and result in losing their trust and future business or even getting sued over it.

Think of it this way, if a person wilfully spreads HIV they would be prosecuted. Think even further back, Typhoid Mary was immune to Typhoid (we can for the purposes of this argument consider Mary to be a Mac user ), however Mary wilfully spread Typhoid to other people by working in kitchens even after knowing she was infected resulting in many deaths (of Windows users). Typhoid Mary was then eventually locked up to prevent her further infecting/killing people.

I have some sympathy for the argument that owners of zombie PCs that have been recruited in to botanist should be completely disconnected from the Internet, and likewise people who wilfully allow their computers Mac or PC to spread viruses should also be disconnected.

Simply passing a Windows virus on to a Windows user won't infect them unless they are not using antivirus software, which I would consider "willful" acceptance on their part.

You're welcome, but don't expect a warm reception from your IT department, after all they are probably motivated to preserve their jobs. Migrating from Windows to Macs greatly diminishes or eliminates the need for their services, always, every time.

In every case in which I prevailed in advocating the purchase of Macs (and now, iPads) the companies were extremely skeptical of my claim that they would pay for themselves in IT support costs alone. And, in every case their ROI was attained in advance of my proposal. Many companies found they could do without IT support entirely. These experiences describe thousands of Macs now deployed in private enterprises as well as public institutions.

Needless to say I have not been welcomed by IT departments. If they are talented, they find other employment. If they aren't, they shouldn't have been there to begin with.

so Typhoid Mary was the first Mac fanboy?

Seriously John, I get where you are coming from.

For my user's I support they are all graphic artists so every resource of the computer is being used to accommodate hi-res print, image retouching, layered designs and 3D rendering. Every drop of the CPU, RAM and GPU is part of the production pipeline and my testing so far has been the AV I've tried so far was not a good idea. It may be better if you have mac users who work in spreadsheets or word macros or deal with far more AD integration but I don't have that going on.

It would be an interesting statistical exercise to calculate the theoretical effect of removing all Macs from existence, calculating the resulting PC virus propagation, and comparing it to a control group. In such an experiment I would hypothesize it would have precisely zero effect on Windows virus propagation. Unless a vulnerable Windows PC connects exclusively to Macs, which is highly unlikely given the overwhelming predominance of Windows PCs, it is 100% certain to be affected.

If a Windows PC becomes affected by a Windows virus, it really does not matter how it became that way. As I often write Windows users are responsible for their own system protection... and they're not as vulnerable as they once were anyway.

John Galt wrote:

 

I would hypothesize it would have precisely zero effect on Windows virus propagation.

For that to be true, you would have to believe no Mac has ever passed a virus to a Windows user. Even one instance would be greater than zero.

I've have two PC's, one Win 7 without AV that spends very little time on the web (heavy 3D work) and one gaming machine my teenager uses and it's running Win 10 with the Window Defender and thats it. Every now and then I boot into a AV suite or collection of tools from CD or flash drive updated def and both have come up clean. I browse as safely as possible and pay attention to the sites, links and threats. I reiterate safe browsing into my kids head too but I'm the dad who tells his kids the anecdotes that end in bear mauling or ptomaine poisoning (or ptomaine poisoning via mayonnaise covered bear) In well over two decades of cross platform computer use I've had one serious Windows infection (with proprietary AV running) deploy and it was an .exe I (stupidly) got off a torrent, and it was 10 years ago, another was an System 9 virus that we were TOLD was a virus by a tech and we were pretty loaded and fired it off, it was called MortalKombat and it was 64k, that should have red flagged right there, but again, pretty loaded at the time and it was "lets try it!"

there are threats, I won't argue that, I won't make the case AV on Windows is not necessary, but the overwhelming majority of them seem to be proliferated on users who have questionable surfing habits, who don't understand AV needs to be updated to be effective (not only defs but iterations of your choice of AV) when you actively choose to seek out those questionable venues and those who understand where the bulk of threats come from and what to look for before they click the link to claim their $1M from the Irish Lottery.

Mayemac wrote:

 

I appreciate all of your responses they are very helpful! I downloaded Clam and trying it now so I hope it works.

 

Just to clarify: The company that I work for bought our laptops due to requirements related to the software that I implement as part of my job. The software company requires the employees that implement their software to use company owned assets/laptops so they can control what's installed and avoid issues with data breach and security. My options were either to receive a company Windows PC (that looks like a brick) or they offered to buy my Mac that I was already using for business purposes. But I gave up freedom when I choose them to buy my Mac. No viruses or anything in our servers or anything that made the company buy our laptops :-)

 

I may end up buying another Mac for myself.

Thanks,

Mariela

Honestly - I purchased my first mac as a way of not being talked into using my home computer for connecting to work - preferred to carry a windows laptop that the company IT person sets up.      

You may want to rethink it and talk to your company about taking your mac back - removing company software - and going to Windows pc.     The PC your company chose is probably a workhorse - if a laptop - one that can take it.  (Personally if I were going to use a laptop - would go with the panasonic tough book - advertised on Nascar. 

Companies are getting tough on data breaches -- an acquaintance of mine who owns a number of companies where personnel have to have access to the internet in order to work with vendors and customers - after a security breach that came in through personal use -- now has tracking on email and web-sites visited --- any private use - you immediately get the heave ho -- employees finally realized that the paper they signed was no joke after the 3rd person was shown the door after surfing the net.

Jeff Shenk wrote:

 

Simply passing a Windows virus on to a Windows user won't infect them unless they are not using antivirus software, which I would consider "willful" acceptance on their part.

Malware can be spread by a trusted person - and in one case -- an email came in at night - the individual opened it at 8am and it spawned emails with virus imbedded --  -- the virus was caught by the email server that had just been updated -- it was a new one.