Gordon Rankin

Q: problems with Multiport AV adapter

Gang,

 

I just got the Multiport AV adapter and I cannot get any USB3 hard drives to work with it.

 

I have the simpler USBC->USB SS adapter from Apple and others and that works, but not the AV adapter.

 

 

 

I could get audio devices to work fine?

 

Also does anyone know what the deal is with the downstream USBC port? Is that only for power (i.e the USB3 and Video are stripped from the connector)?

 

Thanks,

Gordon

 

<Edited by Host>

MacBook (Retina, 12-inch, Early 2015), OS X Yosemite (10.10.3), 1.3GHZ M processor

Posted on Jul 6, 2016 11:14 PM

Close

Q: problems with Multiport AV adapter

  • All replies
  • Helpful answers

Previous Page 2 of 5 last Next
  • by Gordon Rankin,

    Gordon Rankin Gordon Rankin Jul 8, 2016 10:57 AM in response to reddog96
    Level 1 (64 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 8, 2016 10:57 AM in response to reddog96

    All,

     

    Sorry for the delay, work has me doing 3 things right now. Besides doing a bunch of audio stuff (usb, bluetooth, etc...) I also make the guitar amps for Ed Robertson (Barenaked Ladies). They have been in town, playing Indy tonight go see the show,, BNL is always a good time. Plus Howard Jones killed and also OMD.

     

    ~~~ Anyway... I will sort through the following tests I did for power usage and sleep. MB only, MB + Mava, MB + Mava + HP HDMI, MB + Mava + HP + OWC 1T (usb powered). With 10.10.5 I had no trouble sleeping or waking up at all.

     

    I am downloading 10.11.5 now and will load that up.

     

    That being said Apple did resolve some issues with some of the drives I had issues with before. Many of those OWC Envoys and a couple SSD drives I made up. All of those work now no problem and register USB3 to 5G speed.

     

    I will follow up after I read all the data from my PD (power detection for USBC) that I saved off.

     

    Thanks,

    Gordon

  • by Nelson Ancalmo,

    Nelson Ancalmo Nelson Ancalmo Jul 10, 2016 7:57 PM in response to reddog96
    Level 1 (37 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 10, 2016 7:57 PM in response to reddog96

    Hi reddog96:

    I sincerely hope so.

    Although it seems to me that the MacBook  somehow has lost the capability to recognize any device using USB 3.0

    Anything using USB 2.0 works fine all the time, there must be a reason.

    Unfortunately I'm not that smart to understand the complex ways in which a USB device communicates with the computer.

    All I can say is that without the advantage of working with USB 3.0 the USB-C technology has lost a lot of its attraction.

    Thanks for the advice.

  • by Gordon Rankin,

    Gordon Rankin Gordon Rankin Jul 11, 2016 11:30 AM in response to Nelson Ancalmo
    Level 1 (64 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 11, 2016 11:30 AM in response to Nelson Ancalmo

    All,

    I did a ton of testing Friday and over the weekend. BTW I have the original MacBook with USBC. As I said earlier I did not have any problems with USB or sleep with 10.10.5. On Friday I loaded up El Capitan 10.11.3 and went into test mode with my MAVA and OWC's new USBC dock (very good!). I also have about 20 USBC docks and stuff including some USB HS only and USB3 hubs.

     

    Before I start maybe a good primer on what is USBC would help everyone out. So on the basic connector as we have today on the MacBook there is VBUS, Ground, 1-USB HS, two Super Speed differential SETS (4 conductors) and something new called Power Delivery. All of this was thought up because the EU demanded more conformity with all these electronic items because of waste, usage etc... So in this case the power supply that came with your MacBook actually has some smarts to it and the Power Delivery when plugged in will allow the MacBook and MAVA to negotiate what voltage and power they require and if the Supply can provide that. The supply I got with my MacBook is capable of 5V@2.4amps to 14.8V@2.0amps. Anyway... the USB HS is always available to the devices connected to the USB-C port. The two differential sets can be configured for either USB3 SS or video (and with future models there will be Thunderbolt available). Apple did most of the work here and basically gave credit to everyone involved.

     

    ~~~~

    Ok so I loaded up and tested a number of configurations and did not run into any problems. I did sleep, overnight sleep tried a bunch of stuff and I could not get my MacBook to fail. I used powered USB drives, VBUS powered USB drives up to 1T rotating all USB3 SS and no problems. I used an HP wide monitor in both mirror and separate modes and did not have any issues.

     

    I used a Power Delivery monitor that I use to design stuff here. I was a little surprised that when the MacBook boots that it asks the Source (power supply) what it can do then sets the voltage to 5V@2.4A (so basically the max 5V available). When I plug in the MAVA, hard drive and monitor it does not ask for any more than that. I just checked the drive and it's in error in that it says it is self powered, even though it is VBUS powered. That's not correct, but again I did not have any problems with the drive.

     

    Nelson, if your drives are USB3 and they are showing up as HS only then you may want to have Apple check your MAVA or check your USBC port for damage. You should also flip the USBC cable as I have had issues with some of the early USB-C to USB3 converters in that they would only work in one direction (i.e. not following the USB-C spec).

     

    Everyone should make sure they have all the updates especially if there are firmware things that need to be addressed. I will keep trying somethings out over the next week or so. I still have a bunch of USBC dongles to try. Some of these are silly and I need to remove my Speck shell to plug them in. More soon, send questions and I will try and answer them.

     

    Thanks,
    Gordon

  • by Lanny,

    Lanny Lanny Jul 11, 2016 11:35 AM in response to Gordon Rankin
    Level 5 (7,900 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 11, 2016 11:35 AM in response to Gordon Rankin

    Also does anyone know what the deal is with the downstream USBC port?

    If you're talking about the Apple made adapter, yes it's for the power.

  • by Nelson Ancalmo,

    Nelson Ancalmo Nelson Ancalmo Jul 11, 2016 2:38 PM in response to Gordon Rankin
    Level 1 (37 points)
    Mac OS X
    Jul 11, 2016 2:38 PM in response to Gordon Rankin

    Gordon, thanks for your information.

    I want to make clear that my USB 3.0 devices are NOT mounting on the desktop, they are not being recognized by the computer.

    All the USB 2.0 (HS) worked perfectly fine, flash drives and external hard drives.

    What bothers me is that this problem is intermittently on and off, without me doing anything. Sometimes the flash drives or External Hard Drives 3.0 will mount and sometimes they won't.

    I have no idea what the problem is.

    iPhones and iPads and the power work perfectly fine. I have also flipped the USB-C cable as you recommended with no improvement.

    Thanks again. Eventually a solution will come up.

  • by reddog96,

    reddog96 reddog96 Jul 12, 2016 4:04 AM in response to Nelson Ancalmo
    Level 1 (12 points)
    Peripherals
    Jul 12, 2016 4:04 AM in response to Nelson Ancalmo

    I have the same intermittent issues with the USB3 hard disks; sometimes when reconnecting or waking up from sleep the USB3 drive does not mount. Once the HD does not mount, the only way to fix it is to reboot or to be disconnected overnight.

     

    The same happens with HDMI display not waking up. This can usually be fixed by putting the MB back in sleep mode and waking it up with the MAVA connected.  But this does not work all the time.

     

    However when I reconnect MAVA in the morning, after being disconnected over night there is never an issue.

    The MAVA also tends to get quite hot.

  • by Gordon Rankin,

    Gordon Rankin Gordon Rankin Jul 12, 2016 6:19 AM in response to reddog96
    Level 1 (64 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 12, 2016 6:19 AM in response to reddog96

    Reddog,

    My MAVA does not get hot and thinking about what is in there I would have to say there is really no reason for it to get hot unless your hard drive is really eating a ton of power. If so that could be your entire issue. One thing to try would be to get a USB3 powered hub and plug the hard drive into that so the hub is powering the drive instead of your MacBook power supply.

     

    The other is you may just have a bad MAVA.

    Thanks,

    Gordon

  • by Gordon Rankin,

    Gordon Rankin Gordon Rankin Jul 12, 2016 6:26 AM in response to Nelson Ancalmo
    Level 1 (64 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 12, 2016 6:26 AM in response to Nelson Ancalmo

    Nelson,

    I started this thread originally because some of my drives would not mount with the MAVA but would mount with the standard USB-C to USB3 cable from Apple. Most of these were OWC envoy enclosures. Which are sold when you do hard drive upgrades for MacBook Air and Pro units. I did test a number of these over the weekend and those worked fine.

    What brands of hard drives are giving you problems? Are these self powered or USB bus powered?

     

    When ever you have a USB problem one of the first things I do is look at the system report:

    Apple icon->About this Mac->System Report

     

    Look on the left side for USB, when you click that it will give you the entire USB chain as seen by the Computer. If your drives are not there another utility that programmers use is called the USB Prober. This looks pretty deep into the system to find out everything about the devices that are attached.

     

    I think if you search Apple you may find that. Otherwise try Google I know it's open source so it's probably available as a download from somewhere.

     

    Thanks,

    Gordon

  • by reddog96,

    reddog96 reddog96 Jul 12, 2016 7:14 AM in response to Gordon Rankin
    Level 1 (12 points)
    Peripherals
    Jul 12, 2016 7:14 AM in response to Gordon Rankin

    Hi Gordon,

    I have tried this.  My monitor is a DELL U2414H which has a built in USB3 hub and in my original configuration the MAVA would connect to the hub, which powered the Seagate Portable Expansion Drive and an external USB keyboard.

    I moved away from this as then also the keyboard would stop working once the USB devices were not powered.

     

    I am not sure if that hub draws power from the DELL or from the MB.  In any case the results with the hub are the same as without.

     

    Specs for the peripherals:

    DELL : http://www.dell.com/ed/business/p/dell-u2414h/pd

    Seagate Expansion - Portable Drive : model srd00f1 1TB

  • by Gordon Rankin,

    Gordon Rankin Gordon Rankin Jul 12, 2016 7:50 AM in response to reddog96
    Level 1 (64 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 12, 2016 7:50 AM in response to reddog96

    Reddog,

    Got me... both Seagate or Dell is not talking about how much they suck current.

     

    I tried to find an easy way to figure out if a HUB is using bus power or it is self powered. I have literally 30 hubs here, most of the powered ones say 100ma others don't say anything (i.e. system report, click on the device). If it shows nothing then it is considered fully powered.

     

    Now remember from above my OWC 1T drive which I was testing with totally lied in that it said it was self powered, yet it did not have a wall wart connection of any type. It said it required 0ma of current.

     

    Look here is the real problem with power usage and USB. You basically tell the host computer when you enumerate (tell the host what you are). In my experience most companies lie. For instance if you connect to an IOS device you must draw less than 100ma or the IOS device will basically not turn you on. Some audio companies found this out and changed their enumeration to show less than 100ma so they would work, even though they could be in the 240-400ma range.

     

    The fact is that the host does not actually measure the current. It does have over current monitoring, say if there is a short circuit or it draws more than 500ma LS/FS/HS or 1A USB3 SS. But other than that if the device doesn't tell what it has correctly then well all bets are off.

     

    ~~ So you may want to check your System Report on the Seagate drive and also try the HUB in the monitor and see what kind of current draw you see.

     

    Thanks,

    Gordon

  • by reddog96,

    reddog96 reddog96 Jul 13, 2016 12:40 AM in response to Gordon Rankin
    Level 1 (12 points)
    Peripherals
    Jul 13, 2016 12:40 AM in response to Gordon Rankin

    Thanks Gordon.

    It seems like the only forward would be to test with a powered USB3 bus.

    If that works then, my issues are most likely power related.

    If the problems persist then we can eliminate power issues as the source and start looking elsewhere.

    I saw some reasonably priced USB3 hubs on Amazon, or maybe you could recommend one.

    PS- I am located in Luxembourg (Europe), just in case this might have any bearing on the issue.

    I will be in touch.

  • by Gordon Rankin,

    Gordon Rankin Gordon Rankin Jul 13, 2016 6:53 AM in response to reddog96
    Level 1 (64 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 13, 2016 6:53 AM in response to reddog96

    Reddog,

    I would think your monitor's USB hub would be powered but who knows. I did see something interesting yesterday. I had an old mac mini I used for old apps and was on 10.6.8. For some reason an update was crashing the machine and I found out it was my scanner software. HP didn't have drivers for this model so I bought a Cannon on NewEgg. It is USB powered so I plugged it into my Apple keyboard hub and a pop up complained the device needed more power.

     

    So I plugged it directly into the MacBook Pro 13 and looked at the System Report and it was interesting. It said, 500ma usage with an additional 400ma. Meaning the scanner had asked for more than the interface supported. This was the precursor to USBC's power delivery protocol. You may want to look at your drive in system report and tell me what it says. That would indicate how much power. The scanner was only HS so it limit is 500ma, but it can ask for more.

     

    Yea powered hubs are not that expensive and sometimes fix a lot of unanswered questions.

     

    All Apple products work between 80-260vac so I don't think living in Europe is your issue.

     

    Thanks,

    Gordon

  • by reddog96,

    reddog96 reddog96 Jul 13, 2016 7:50 AM in response to Gordon Rankin
    Level 1 (12 points)
    Peripherals
    Jul 13, 2016 7:50 AM in response to Gordon Rankin

    Hi Gordon.

    The MAVA has 1800 mA available and the drive needs only 36mA.  See full details below:

     

    ---- System Report for Expansion drive connected to USB3 Bus > USB3 Hub ------------

    Expansion:

     

      Product ID: 0x2312

      Vendor ID: 0x0bc2  (Seagate LLC)

      Version: 2.19

      Serial Number: NA462HFZ

      Speed: Up to 5 Gb/sec

      Manufacturer: Seagate

      Location ID: 0x14310000 / 5

      Current Available (mA): 1800

      Current Required (mA): 36

      Extra Operating Current (mA): 0

      Capacity: 1 TB (1.000.204.885.504 bytes)

      Removable Media: Yes

      Detachable Drive: Yes

      BSD Name: disk1

      Partition Map Type: GPT (GUID Partition Table)

      Volumes:

    EFI:

      Capacity: 209,7 MB (209.715.200 bytes)

      BSD Name: disk1s1

      Content: EFI

      Volume UUID: 0E239BC6-F960-3107-89CF-1C97F78BB46B

    Seagate Expansion Drive:

      Capacity: 999,86 GB (999.860.912.128 bytes)

      Available: 252,29 GB (252.287.766.528 bytes)

      Writable: Yes

      File System: Case-Sensitive Journaled HFS+

      BSD Name: disk1s2

      Mount Point: /Volumes/Seagate Expansion Drive

      Content: Apple_HFS

      Volume UUID: 40221B18-33AB-34B4-9FCB-EC48256C1F07

    Boot OS X:

      Capacity: 134,2 MB (134.217.728 bytes)

      BSD Name: disk1s3

      Content: Apple_Boot

      Volume UUID: 5D57711D-CEC9-3963-B1AF-C2B17F663F12

  • by reddog96,

    reddog96 reddog96 Jul 13, 2016 8:06 AM in response to Gordon Rankin
    Level 1 (12 points)
    Peripherals
    Jul 13, 2016 8:06 AM in response to Gordon Rankin

    Hi Gordon:

     

    I checked powered USB 3 hubs on Amazon, but even the most popular ones get a lot of crap ratings (hubs frying or shorting out or ports failing after a couple of weeks.) Even the Amazon Basics 4 port USB3 hub.

     

    Here is what I found for the DELL monitor USB3 hub on the Q&A on Amazon.com

    Answer:

    Of the four downstream USB 3.0 ports, three of the ports are underneath the cable cover and are capable of supplying 1A each, while a forth port on the rear of the monitor with the lightning icon can supply up to 2A.
    By CSmith on August 27, 2014


    I connected MAVA again to the DELL screen USB3 hub and connected the drive to the (2A) connector this time.

    Let's see what happens.


    Keep you posted

  • by Gordon Rankin,

    Gordon Rankin Gordon Rankin Jul 13, 2016 8:57 AM in response to reddog96
    Level 1 (64 points)
    Desktops
    Jul 13, 2016 8:57 AM in response to reddog96

    Reddog,

     

    Good call! In using a boat load of these backup drives in most cases they are 1A or under. I have a monitor here, kind of a USBA male to USBA female connector that displays the amount of current used. Kinda accurate and I measure a bunch of stuff just to get a feel for what's going on.

    Thanks,

    Gordon

Previous Page 2 of 5 last Next