agentswitters
Level 1 (8 points)
Classic Mac OS

Q: can OS X read hfs drive from os8.1?

hello,

i have a powerbook3400c running mac os 8.1 and a 1g

finder lists the format as "mac os standard"

from my research, for 8.1 this would be an HFS format

 

if i remove this drive, and connect it via usb drive cable to my laptop running OS X 10.11, will el cap be able to read it for sure?

 

can OS X read MFS drives? i understand MFS was the format previous to HFS.

i have a performa 214cd to deal with as well.

 

 

h

Mac Pro, OS X Yosemite (10.10.5)

Posted on Aug 14, 2016 12:07 PM

by Niel,Apple recommended
Niel Niel
Level 10 (311,446 points)
A:

1. Yes, unless something's wrong with the volume.

2. No. Apple removed that capability in Mac OS 8.

 

(144031)

Posted on Aug 14, 2016 12:19 PM

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Q: can OS X read hfs drive from os8.1?

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  • by Niel,Apple recommended

    Niel Niel Aug 14, 2016 12:19 PM in response to agentswitters
    Level 10 (311,446 points)
    Aug 14, 2016 12:19 PM in response to agentswitters

    1. Yes, unless something's wrong with the volume.

    2. No. Apple removed that capability in Mac OS 8.

     

    (144031)

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 14, 2016 1:24 PM in response to agentswitters
    Level 6 (9,864 points)
    Aug 14, 2016 1:24 PM in response to agentswitters

    Alternatively, if you do not wish to remove the hard drive, you could place a CompactFlash memory card in an inexpensive PC Card adapter for CF. This adapter can be used in a PC Card slot in a PowerBook 3400c.

     

    If necessary, a Mac OS 8.1 PowerBook can reformat the CF card to Mac OS Standard (HFS) or Mac OS Extended (normally, CF cards are PC-formatted). The CF card can be handled by an external USB card reader for use in most modern computers.

     

    If bi-directional use is required for file transfers, please note that Mac OS X 10.6 or higher cannot write to Mac OS Standard (only read from).

     

    BTW, no Performa (please check the model) hard drive used MFS. That file system was used for early Macintosh computers, and it can be found on old floppies.

  • by agentswitters,

    agentswitters agentswitters Aug 14, 2016 3:14 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Aug 14, 2016 3:14 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    thank you

    this is great news that the performa is definitely in HFS

    i do not have an ADB keyboard for it at the moment so i can't get it to boot- i wasn't sure what system it was on or what format the drive was

     

    i've ordered a universal cable for these ide drives and if all goes as planned i'll be able to access them from the laptop

     

    thanks for your time helping me go back in time!

     

    winsmith

  • by agentswitters,

    agentswitters agentswitters Aug 14, 2016 3:41 PM in response to agentswitters
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Aug 14, 2016 3:41 PM in response to agentswitters

    i've just learned from someone who tried using a universal drive cable on one of these old drives that it did not work because the drive standard was too old.

     

    "My parents also had a 3400c. I was severely disappointed to discover that OWC’s “universal” ATA drive adapter was not: the internal drive of the 3400c would not work with it. When i contacted OWC about that, they basically said, “Of course not! That drive’s too old!” Grumbling about the meaning of “universal” ensued, but the bottom line was that this adapter supports only newer ATA standards. I hope you’re planning on using something else!"

     

    any ideas what drive standard that was or if there's something in particular i can look for in a ide> usb adapter?

    the wiki on these computer models just lists the size of the HDD, but nothing further

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 15, 2016 12:10 AM in response to agentswitters
    Level 6 (9,864 points)
    Aug 15, 2016 12:10 AM in response to agentswitters

    Regarding the Performa, there are several models (http://lowendmac.com/2015/performa-index/). Some have SCSI and some have IDE/ATA hard drives. so do check the Performa model number again.

     

    I was surprised to hear about the universal adapter compatibility problems. I had thought that any IDE/ATA hard drive (like the one in a PowerBook 3400c) would work. You can find several USB-to-ATA adapters in computer stores, so it is difficult to say whether some have limitations or not. Providing that the PB 3400c is working, and if you do not want to test the universal drive adapter in question, you could always try the other method and just drag-copy the contents of the PB 3400c hard disk to a (re-formatted) CompactFlash card in a CompactFlash PC Card adapter, and then read the CF card using a standard USB memory card reader. With the appropriate hardware and software, you may also want to try file transfers (using FTP) via Ethernet.

  • by agentswitters,

    agentswitters agentswitters Aug 15, 2016 10:15 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Aug 15, 2016 10:15 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

    thanks jan,

    i have taken the case off the performa 6214cd and it has an ata drive.

     

    as for the powerbook 3400, would using the pc card with cf card option require any drivers in os 8.1 do you think?

    can you format a drive cf drive in 8.1?

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 15, 2016 1:44 PM in response to agentswitters
    Level 6 (9,864 points)
    Aug 15, 2016 1:44 PM in response to agentswitters

    >would using the pc card with cf card option require any drivers in os 8.1 do you think?

     

    No additional drivers needed.

     

    >can you format a drive cf drive in 8.1?

     

    Drive Setup 1.7.3 (Drive Setup 1.7.3 Document and Software) can reformat/initialise CompactFlash cards, or one could use Erase Disk in the Special menu. The PC Exchange control panel must be disabled.

     

    A CompactFlash card (in a CompactFlash PC Card adapter, in a PowerBook PC Card slot) acts as a removable "hard drive". Adapters can be found for around USD 10-20. The CompactFlash card is also not too expensive. Many PowerBook models can be made bootable from a CompactFlash card (if it has a valid system folder).

     

    If necessary, once you have the ADB keyboard and a mouse, you could connect the Performa to the PowerBook 3400c by means of a standard Macintosh MiniDIN-8M to MiniDIN-8M printer cable between the printer ports. This would allow file sharing via the AppleTalk protocol.

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 15, 2016 2:25 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 6 (9,864 points)
    Aug 15, 2016 2:25 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Addendum

     

    If you insert an adapter with a PC-formatted CompactFlash card when the PC Exchange control panel has been deactivated (for example, by booting with Extensions off), the PowerBook should immediately show a dialogue box offering to initialise the disk (card) to Mac. Once this has been done (the card icon visible), one can use Erase Disk under the Special menu for additional erasure operations if required.

  • by agentswitters,

    agentswitters agentswitters Aug 18, 2016 1:28 PM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Aug 18, 2016 1:28 PM in response to Jan Hedlund

    Thanks so much everyone for your help so far

    CF card for the powerbook and universal drive adapter for the performa ata drive has worked great so far

     

    there is one folder on the performa drive which won't copy. it is a backup of an old LC3 that i made on this performa.

    i have been able to copy some files and folders out of it and others just hang the system and i get the error: "finder can't complete the operation because some data in ____ can not be read or written. (error code -36)" i assume that either drive sectors are bad here or somehow this data is corrupt. the drive sounds healthy though. any ideas on how i could copy out this folder? i was wondering if CCC would work. or if i should try to find a mac ADB keyboard and boot up the performa to see if these files can be read in mac os 8.

     

    any ideas would be greatly appreciated and help me cross the finish line with this.

    b well

    w.s.

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 19, 2016 12:01 PM in response to agentswitters
    Level 6 (9,864 points)
    Aug 19, 2016 12:01 PM in response to agentswitters

    Hi,

     

    Good to hear that it was possible to use CF with the PowerBook, and the universal adapter with the hard drive from the Performa.

     

    It is difficult to say what the exact reason for the reading/copying problem involving the (LC III backup) folder could be. I assume that you have connected the USB-to-ATA adapter to a Mac OS X 10.11 machine. It would probably not be a bad idea to try to make the Performa fully operational by connecting an ADB keyboard and a mouse (the logic board battery voltage may have to be checked as well). That way you would rule out several unknown factors related to hardware and system software differences.

  • by a brody,

    a brody a brody Aug 20, 2016 7:42 AM in response to Jan Hedlund
    Level 9 (66,776 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Aug 20, 2016 7:42 AM in response to Jan Hedlund

    One of the most common issues with older computers is the PRAM battery.

     

    Macintosh Family: Batteries and Part Numbers

     

    Once they reach 4 years of age, they need replacing.  Now while the -36 error usually is an input/output error, I've seen issues where peripherals start not connecting properly when the battery is low or out of juice often making the machine unable to boot.   The real conundrum is data recovery.    Prosoft Data Rescue does have older versions, which you may be able to come by that can recover the data to a working drive.

  • by agentswitters,

    agentswitters agentswitters Aug 20, 2016 9:03 AM in response to a brody
    Level 1 (8 points)
    Classic Mac OS
    Aug 20, 2016 9:03 AM in response to a brody

    thank you a brody, but a pram battery wouldn't have and effect on the hard drive because i removed it from the performa. OS X was reading the file system, but some of the files would not copy off of it. i'll hunt for an old data rescue, the modern one wasn't coming up with much.

  • by Jan Hedlund,

    Jan Hedlund Jan Hedlund Aug 21, 2016 3:17 PM in response to agentswitters
    Level 6 (9,864 points)
    Aug 21, 2016 3:17 PM in response to agentswitters

    >OS X was reading the file system, but some of the files would not copy off of it.

     

    Which file types/formats were problematic? Was it possible to, somehow, just open/read the files (although they could not be copied to another disk)?

     

    If nothing else works, you may even want to check whether files (documents) could be read and/or copied using a Linux or Windows PC instead. A PC running Windows can only read HFS if a special utility (such as TransMac or MacDrive) is installed.