nostra23

Q: Airport Extreme High Latency

Hi all,

 

I am really having issues with latency on my Airport Extreme.

If I connect my MacBook directly via LAN cable to the Airport I am getting pinging my Apple TV 3-4ms latency which is fine. As soon I connect via wireless it gets up to 90 ms and I have 1% packet loss.


It gets worse if I compare MacBook direct on internet modem versus MacBook Wireless to Airport (and Airport Connected to Internet Modem. Direct connection constant 25-30ms, with Airport in between constant spikes up to 300ms. around 4-5% Packet loss!

 

I tried changing the channel from Airport multiple times (1 and 11) no change. I tried creating 5GHZ network - no change. The airport is in the same room.

 

What to do?

 

Thanks!

 

Airport 6th Gen

Version 7.7.7

 

Alt + Wifi shows:

Security: WPA2 Personal

Channel: 36 (50 GHz, 80MHz)

RSSI: -54dBm

Noise: -90dBm

TxRate: 650 Mbit

PHY Mode: 802.11ac

MCS Index: 7

 

Compare Apple TV Ping:

Direct LAN on Airport:

64 bytes from 10.0.1.17: icmp_seq=20 ttl=64 time=3.392 ms

64 bytes from 10.0.1.17: icmp_seq=21 ttl=64 time=3.532 ms

64 bytes from 10.0.1.17: icmp_seq=22 ttl=64 time=3.333 ms

WLAN :

64 bytes from 10.0.1.17: icmp_seq=2369 ttl=64 time=5.423 ms

64 bytes from 10.0.1.17: icmp_seq=2370 ttl=64 time=90.214 ms

64 bytes from 10.0.1.17: icmp_seq=2371 ttl=64 time=76.525 ms

 

Compare ping to google direct modem LAN connection and WLAN with Airport in between:

Direct:

64 bytes from 172.217.23.3: icmp_seq=2562 ttl=53 time=39.949 ms

64 bytes from 172.217.23.3: icmp_seq=2563 ttl=53 time=39.771 ms

64 bytes from 172.217.23.3: icmp_seq=2564 ttl=53 time=38.117 ms

Airport WLAN:

64 bytes from 216.58.211.3: icmp_seq=457 ttl=53 time=33.296 ms

64 bytes from 216.58.211.3: icmp_seq=458 ttl=53 time=31.137 ms

64 bytes from 216.58.211.3: icmp_seq=459 ttl=53 time=118.631 ms

64 bytes from 216.58.211.3: icmp_seq=460 ttl=53 time=118.973 ms

64 bytes from 216.58.211.3: icmp_seq=461 ttl=53 time=573.944 ms

64 bytes from 172.217.23.3: icmp_seq=2565 ttl=53 time=38.824 ms

Posted on Aug 25, 2016 2:22 PM

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Q: Airport Extreme High Latency

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  • Helpful answers

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Aug 25, 2016 4:00 PM in response to nostra23
    Level 9 (52,601 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 25, 2016 4:00 PM in response to nostra23

    Double hop wireless always causes issues. Yours do seem pretty severe. But it should be avoided whenever possible. Wireless handles single hop ok but has major issues with multiple hops to end point.

     

    I wonder if part of the issue here is upgrade install of the OS on the laptop. Did you upgrade install El Capo over Yosemite over Mavericks.. etc. The actual wireless setup and get pretty messed up.

     

    There was a good post about wireless issues and what you can do about them.

     

    Re: My Macbook pro won't stay connected to the WiFi!

     

    I rarely see these kinds of issues because I never upgrade install.. always do clean install and migrate your files.

     

    It is best to test with another laptop or other devices.

  • by nostra23,

    nostra23 nostra23 Aug 25, 2016 11:10 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 25, 2016 11:10 PM in response to LaPastenague

    Double hop wireless?

    Internet Cable Modem (no Wireless) --- cable connection --- Airport Extreme. Thats it.

    The only wireless device connection is from the clients to the Airport.

     

    I observe the issues with my MacBook Pro 15" and MacBook 12" - both are on latest software versions offered on El Capitan.

    Going to 5GHZ improved the situation a bit. I now can use airplay at least without having the picture getting stuck each 3-4 seconds.

     

    Anyway. I ordered 20 bucks TP Link today and will test if that helps.... I would hate to remove the Airport Extreme from the setup that is 100% Apple... but well..

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Aug 25, 2016 11:45 PM in response to nostra23
    Level 9 (52,601 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 25, 2016 11:45 PM in response to nostra23

    I understood the setup to be

     

    Macbook---- wireless---AE---wireless---ATV

     

    Is this not the case??

     

    When you have this setup it is double hop wireless..

     

    So when you link MBP --ethernet--AE---wireless---ATV

     

    You knock out a hop.. and wireless operates correctly.

     

    What you can do if you want to run both the Mac and the Apple TV on wireless is to use TP-Link plugged into the AE. Wireless then is separate and you are not so messed up with the double hop.

     

    Is it not possible to run ethernet to the ATV.. as that will do much to fix the problem. Or if not ethernet then EOP adapters (powerline, homeplug) .. they are not always a fix but when they do work are better than wireless.

     

    The AC wireless airport may also have a bug. Wireless on these units seems to be a bit iffy. For some it works great and others it is terrible. I am on my third AC version TC after the first two proved short lived and poor wireless performance.. after a year the present one is now showing issues.

  • by nostra23,

    nostra23 nostra23 Aug 25, 2016 11:52 PM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 25, 2016 11:52 PM in response to LaPastenague

    Ok understood and thanks for the fast answer!
    Yes the ATV is connected via wireless too. But honestly speaking... it is the whole idea of a wireless network to connect wireless clients. If I have to throw a cable for each device ... are we back in the 90s ?

    Additionally. If i plug in the TP link into the Airport Extreme .... I dont see a reason why I should keep the Extreme then. The whole point of it is NAT to internet and Wireless.. the TP link can just do fine. It does not add any other value in my current setup. At least I think...

     

    But still then. If I go for the internet connection on 2.4GHZ:

     

    So Cable Modem --- cable --- Airport --- Wireless -- MacBook. I have the same issue. It is single hop and compared to directly connecting to the cable modem the airport adds up to 300ms delay every now and then.

     

    I wish I could stay with 5GHZ only but Sonos system only supports 2.4Ghz... afaik the use 5GHZ for their internal communication between the speakers.

    5GHZ this morning to internet was 0.3% loss and avg of 28ms which would be more than acceptable.

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Aug 26, 2016 12:11 AM in response to nostra23
    Level 9 (52,601 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 26, 2016 12:11 AM in response to nostra23

    So Cable Modem --- cable --- Airport --- Wireless -- MacBook. I have the same issue. It is single hop and compared to directly connecting to the cable modem the airport adds up to 300ms delay every now and then.

    I would expect some spiking on wireless. It is the nature of the beastie.

     

    You need to understand wireless has single channel and half duplex. Translating that, wireless can talk to one client at a time.. and it can only Tx or Rx not both. (Ethernet via a switch can Rx Tx and talk to multiple clients at the same time).

     

    Due to the time slicing when you share wireless it will always spike. The Mac driver can also contribute to the issue as it searches for other wireless networks. Wireless is great for data.. it is less great for time sensitive material like streaming.

     

    If I have to throw a cable for each device ... are we back in the 90s ?

    Wireless is not much different to 90s.. only the links are faster and the lies about its speed are bigger.

     

    However I do think you need to pursue where the problem is at a couple of levels.

     

    Run the apple wireless diagnostics.

     

    Particularly scan for all the wireless in your area.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-08-26 at 5.03.04 PM.png

     

    Look particularly at how many AP you have around you and the signal and channels they are on.

     

    2.4ghz is saturated these days. It is hard to get decent signal.

     

    Also the current link which you can get from wireless diagnostics. Or you can get directly from option-click wireless fan in the top menu.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-08-26 at 5.02.17 PM.png

     

    When I do this I get exactly what you do.. ping spikes.

     

    ping www.aanet.com.au

    PING aanet.com.au (203.24.100.73): 56 data bytes

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=0 ttl=59 time=90.342 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=64.164 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=111.135 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=63.742 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=4 ttl=59 time=100.118 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=5 ttl=59 time=64.567 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=6 ttl=59 time=85.520 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=7 ttl=59 time=68.588 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=8 ttl=59 time=118.988 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=9 ttl=59 time=64.720 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=10 ttl=59 time=105.589 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=11 ttl=59 time=63.835 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=12 ttl=59 time=73.712 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=13 ttl=59 time=64.766 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=14 ttl=59 time=84.302 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=15 ttl=59 time=64.021 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=16 ttl=59 time=232.023 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=17 ttl=59 time=64.020 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=18 ttl=59 time=82.299 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=19 ttl=59 time=81.938 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=20 ttl=59 time=64.780 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=21 ttl=59 time=65.004 ms

    ^C

    --- aanet.com.au ping statistics ---

    22 packets transmitted, 22 packets received, 0.0% packet loss

    round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 63.742/85.371/232.023/36.186 ms


    That is because my wife is watching Netflix.. (now and forevermore).


    If I swap to ethernet on airport nearby with wireless OFF.


    It is still spiking a bit with load on the modem.. (running near full capacity). But it is more consistent than wireless.

    ping www.aanet.com.au

    PING aanet.com.au (203.24.100.73): 56 data bytes

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=0 ttl=59 time=64.589 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=1 ttl=59 time=101.224 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=2 ttl=59 time=75.735 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=3 ttl=59 time=91.942 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=4 ttl=59 time=64.203 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=5 ttl=59 time=64.403 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=6 ttl=59 time=64.284 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=7 ttl=59 time=64.893 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=8 ttl=59 time=64.574 ms

    64 bytes from 203.24.100.73: icmp_seq=9 ttl=59 time=71.829 ms

    ^C

    --- aanet.com.au ping statistics ---

    10 packets transmitted, 10 packets received, 0.0% packet loss

    round-trip min/avg/max/stddev = 64.203/72.768/101.224/12.643 ms

  • by nostra23,

    nostra23 nostra23 Aug 26, 2016 12:26 AM in response to LaPastenague
    Level 1 (5 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 26, 2016 12:26 AM in response to LaPastenague

    Thanks for the detailed answer.

    So I guess you are right. I just plugged in the TP-Link at 2.4 Ghz. Same issue - really bad spikes on WLAN, no issues with cable. So I guess 2.4 is just bad here too.

    On the 5Ghz I see the same as you - minor spikes like 2 times a minute going from 30 to 120ms.

     

    Well if I want no spikes at all the solution would be a MU-MIMO? Guess Airport does SU-MIMO...

     

    On the other hand I (and my video telephony home office) can live with 100ms spikes. On 2.4 I got 5% packet loss which is just too much those days. Still my Sonos wont like the 2.4Ghz issues.

     

    Screen Shot 2016-08-26 at 09.23.46.png

    Screen Shot 2016-08-26 at 09.21.05.png

  • by LaPastenague,

    LaPastenague LaPastenague Aug 26, 2016 1:49 PM in response to nostra23
    Level 9 (52,601 points)
    Wireless
    Aug 26, 2016 1:49 PM in response to nostra23

    Well if I want no spikes at all the solution would be a MU-MIMO?

    No I don't think the real world performance of MU-MIMO is that great.

     

    The solution is ethernet with lots of standard AP.

     

    See this article.

     

    http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/basics/wireless-basics/31576-the-best-way-to-get- whole-house-wireless-coverage