Q: Deleting an iMessage on an iOS device won't sync the deletion on Mac OS

david koff wrote:

 

1) Is syncronized deletions across all devices/computers even possible? The folks on this here board don't seem to think it is.

Nope

david koff wrote:

 

2) Have you personally been able to sync your deletions across your Macs/iOS devices?

     2a) If so, can you point to a link or explanation of how, exactly you set up your devices?

Nope

david koff wrote:

 

3) What is your Mac OS and iOS version number, so at least we can compare notes? I'm on iOS 7.0.6 on all devices, OSX Mavericks or OSX Mountain Lion on all Macs.

Same here

Hi,

The Issue is what you mean by "Sync" and what Apple put into the Apps.

The "Sync" is only "Display on all devices" and not anything else.

It has been this way in the beta (version 6.1 in Lion), Messages 7 and 7.0.1 in Mountain Lion and the version in Mountain Lion (which does include changes at the OS 10.9.2 update but the Messages version has not changed)

At the OS X 10.8.2 (Messages version 7.0.1) we got the  current form of iPhone Numbers and Apple ID full linking which did not happen before this.

This means iPhone could get Apple ID iMessages and the Mac could display the iPhone number iMessages.

The Read, Delivered and deleting an iMessages on one device does not cross over on to other devices.

In  that respect it is closer to fetching POP mail on server devices compared to IMAP ones

Deleting something on IMAP server will delete it form any login.

Doing so on a POP email will not.

11:06 pm      Friday; February 28, 2014

I was just looking for an answer to this and see that it is not possible. You compare this to IMAP and POP which I think is a great way to describe it. The sad thing is that POP should just be forgotten it never makes any sense to not be able to sync what you do on one device to another and at the very least you should have the option in the settings to do so. How this has not made it in to the OS so far is amazing. Apple should put this into iOS 10 and MacOS coming out in the next month or at least have it on the road map for the next OS version or even a minor update for the upcoming OS version.

Hi,

You could ask them http://www.apple.com/feedback/messages.html

There is a free text area included.

Mostly it is down to the way the push service works.

There are some issues around the device specific Logins of each device and/or the possibility of someone gaining access to your Apple ID and Password and "registering" another devices an maliciously deleting messages.

That also excludes considering shared Apple ID and kid's phones monitoring.

10:17 pm      Wednesday; August 31, 2016

Thanks for the link I will definitely ask them. I would agree with you but I really don't think there is much difference between the concept of iMessage and Email. So if one of the reasons they do not want to sync iMessages is to not allow someone that accessed your Apple account maliciously to be able to delete all your messages then what about how email works? Again most people use IMAP for their email and if they accessed your account added their device they would then be able to delete your email and that would show across all devices. So in short, if the concept is not that different from email to iMessage and the proposed issue is already a possibility to be a problem in email. Why would they take greater measures for iMessage?... So then if it comes down to how the push service works then they should change it and allow for all devices to poll the server where your iMessages are saved and keep everything in sync (I understand there are some issues with messages going out as text vs iMessage but that can easily be solved. If your phone can't send iMessage and it sends out as a text it will send the text and later when you get data service again it would send the messages sent as text to the iMessage server to allow syncing). It is just annoying to not have the continuity of your messages across all your devices. It is 2016 Apple and you guys need to include this haha.

ericwhittakerjr wrote:

 

they should change it and allow for all devices to poll the server where your iMessages are saved and keep everything in sync.

 

It is 2016 Apple and you guys need to include this haha. 

First off, there is not a server that is saving iMessages to be able to keep things in sync. They are not saved on Apple's servers, so they cannot be picked up again like IMAP mail. Once delivered, after a short period of time, they are gone. That is part of Apple's privacy thing.

For the second part of your statement, Apple does not participate in the forum. This is a user to user support forum.

Okay so first off I am saying this is how it should be if they are not doing so already which you mentioned then they should change and do that. Again I do not think that iMessage and email are very different in what they do and how they work. It is one person sending a text message to another and the difference is just the frequency at which someone is sending those messages and it happens to be greater on iMessage. If this has something to do with their privacy policy then again they storing emails what is the difference? They are both forms of communication that are sensitive. To consider keeping this notion of privacy and how to solve Apple not wanting to keep iMessages stored on their servers then why is it so hard for them to keep it on the servers until all devices have received a copy? and why would it be hard to delete something on your iPhone and that would send an instruction to the server for all your other devices to see and be able to delete that message? Let's say you send an iMessage from your iPhone. That goes up to the server for your Mac and iPad to download when they get turned on or have the chance to get it from the server. Then before your Mac or iPad download the message (and let's just say this message has a unique ID for reference) you delete that message from your iPhone. When that deletion happens it just sends the instruction up to the server and says hey delete message ID 23432 and then the server knows and it can just delete it and the Mac and iPad won't get it.

If iMessages are on a server temporarily then just rewrite the logic so that all devices can get the right instructions to keep everything in sync. I am not saying create something drastically new just that however Apple need to do it they should do it. Because I do not see any valid argument as to why it is a problem to sync...

Also, I know Apple does not participate in the forum I was just making a statement like "come on Apple do something". Not with the expectation that Apple was going to see it. But thanks for clarifying.

Not knowing exactly how iMessage works, and the fact that speculation is prohibited here on the forum, if you wish to let Apple know you would like to see change, then use the feedback link provided earlier. iMessage and email are two different things, and are handled differently, even for privacy concerns. Then comes the issue of storage. Storing iMessages for the numbers of users and messages would be incredible, which is why they are not stored. I've also read of a number of issues where people have "accidentally" deleted messages on a device and are quite thankful they still exist on another device. In my opinion, I don't think you will see a syncing like you are asking, mostly because of the storage requirement, similar to IMAP email.

I do see speculation is prohibited but in their terms, it also says this:

Post constructive comments and questions. Unless otherwise noted, your Submission should either be a technical support question or a technical support answer. Constructive feedback about product features is welcome as well.

So it is also stating that I can post constructive feedback about product features. I think the feedback I was providing was not trying to bash anything but talk about why it is useful and why it would be really nice to have the ability to sync messages. We were also talking out the idea and whether there were any issues that could come from such a feature, which you made some points about storage being an issue, privacy being an issue, or just that the system is not set up for it. But I would have to say that many applications already do this and sync like Google Hangouts, WhatsApp, Facebook Messanger and if they are not having issues with storage then I would think (sorry if this is considered speculation) that Apple could also deal with that storage demand and I have already made my points about privacy referring to email being stored on servers so why are messages treated differently they are very similar in concept being that they are both text and sent for the purpose of communication, and we know that the system is set up to push from the device and passes through an apple server and if something is "near" (whether that means the device is on and connected to the internet or both devices are on the same network) then that message will show on the other device. Again this conversation I would say is considered constructive feedback and touching on the sub-topics of why iMessage syncing would be a great feature. 

To your point of someone being grateful that they deleted a message on one device on accident and were happy that it was on another is kind of a major edge case. It is not like your other devices get all your messages every time. I have had many times when I would send a message from my phone and in a bad service area so it had to be sent as a text but when I go to my computer later and want to reply to that conversation it is not there. A device in a bad service area that has to send a message as a text and then once data service comes back be able to send those messages through the Apple servers to be on iMessage and to get to other devices. My point being the few times that people are happy that it does not sync and can get deleted messages on their other devices does not outweigh the number of people who are annoyed that the messages they deleted do not delete from there 2 other devices sometimes more devices.

I do see that there would be more processing and storage that Apple would have to deal with but being that so many other services provide this some of which also provide a whole suite of services and still allow for syncing messages just seems it would make sense for Apple to do so with their messaging service.

And also I would like to say we would not really have to store the messages on the server forever it's just syncing the instructions to make those changes on other devices. So if you have one device with let's say an iCloud setting toggle for iMessage turned on then it is part of iCloud iMessage and if you want another device to sync instructions for deletion of messages or anything to keep those messages in sync you have to sign that device in with your iCloud account and turn that option on. My point is that it is conceivable to have this as a feature without having too much of a storage issue, the privacy is similar to storing email, and the cases for people liking that it is not syncing and can get to a message on another device if they accidentally are small edge cases and would not outweigh the ability to keep your messages the same on all devices. One more point is what if I wanted to get rid of a message that I did not want at all, I would have to go to my Mac, iPad, iPhone 6s, and iPhone 5s (for Development / testing) to make sure it has been deleted...

I hope that this constructive feedback has been explained enough to show the reasons we should definitely have iMessages synced across all devices.

You can post constructive feedback, but Apple is not going to see it. You have taken a great deal of time to type up this long thing that only users will see. Apple does not participate in the forum. Feedback goes to the feedback link as I indicated earlier.

I can appreciate your feelings on this, but you are preaching to the wrong choir. You need to send the feedback as has been said. We have both shared our opinions with each other.

I have written to the feedback link.

And they also state in their terms:

1. If you provide any ideas, suggestions, or recommendations on this site regarding Apple’s products, technologies or services (“Feedback”), Apple may use such Feedback and incorporate it in Apple products, technologies, and services without paying royalties and without any other obligations or restrictions.

I am not expecting this to be seen by apple but it would be seen by people.

I would like to think that this is more of a place to get the idea out so that other people who feel the same could write to the feedback link as well with good reason for this feature now that we have gamed out the issues (more people more attention from Apple if they send it to the feedback link) But again not my intention to think this is the place to put the feedback for Apple to see. I am just writing to the forum. Someone would have already gotten their answer before coming across my reply post anyways.

Also I was editing the long thing and I guess you can't edit after someone replies so here is the edited Long Thing that is writen out a little better below.

I do see speculation is prohibited but in their terms, it also says this:

Post constructive comments and questions. Unless otherwise noted, your Submission should either be a technical support question or a technical support answer. Constructive feedback about product features is welcome as well.

So it is also stating that I can post constructive feedback about product features. I think the feedback I was providing was not trying to bash anything but to talk about why it is useful and why it would be really nice to have the ability to sync messages. We were also talking about the "idea" and whether there were any issues that could come from such a feature. Which you made some points about storage being an issue, privacy being an issue, or just that the system is not set up for it. But I would have to say that many applications/services already do this and sync their messages like Google Hangouts, WhatsApp, Facebook Messanger and if they are not having issues with storage then I would think (sorry if this is considered speculation) that Apple could also deal with that storage demand. I have already made my points about privacy referring to the concept of email being stored on servers so why are iMessages treated differently? They are very similar in concept, being that they are both text and sent for the purpose of communication. We know that the system is set up to push from the device and passes through an apple server and if something is "near" (whether that means the device is on and connected to the internet or both devices are on the same network) then that message will show on the other device. Again this conversation I would say is considered constructive feedback and touching on the sub-topics of why iMessage syncing would be a great feature.

To your point of someone being grateful that they deleted a message on one device on accident and were happy that it was on another is kind of a major edge case. It is not like your other devices get all your messages every time there are times when the other devices don't. I have had times when I would send a message from my iPhone and being in a bad service area so it had to be sent as a text message but when I go to my Mac later and want to reply to that conversation it is not there. You could solve this by making it so a device in a bad service area that has to send a message as a text will wait for data service to come back then be able to send those messages through the Apple servers to be on iMessage and to get to the other devices. My point being the few times that people are happy that it does not sync and can get deleted messages back from their other devices does not outweigh the number of people who are annoyed that the messages they deleted do not delete from there other devices or that they can't continue their conversation they started on the phone.

I do see that there would be more processing and storage that Apple could potentially have to deal with but being that so many other companies some of which also provide a whole suite of services and still allow for syncing messages. It just seems it would make sense for Apple to do so with their messaging service.

And also I would like to say we probably would not really have to store the messages on the server forever it's just syncing the instructions to make those changes on all the devices. So here is a concept of how that could work - if you have one device and you are signed in with your Apple ID you could have a new iCloud setting toggle for iMessage and turn that on for the device. Then that device would be a part of iCloud iMessage and if you want another device to sync the instructions for deletion of messages or get the queue of messages to be synced from the 1st device you have to sign that other device in with your iCloud account and turn that option on from iCloud settings like you do with most of the other iCloud features.

My point is that it is conceivable to have this as a feature without having too much of a storage issue because its not storing the messages it could just store the instructions of what needs to happen, the privacy is similar to storing email, and the cases for people liking that it is not syncing and can get to a message on another device if they accidentally deleted a message are small edge cases and would not outweigh the ability to keep your messages the same on all devices. One more point is what if I wanted to get rid of a message that I did not want at all, I would have to go to my Mac, iPad, iPhone 6s, and iPhone 5s (for Development / testing) to make sure it has been deleted...

I hope that this constructive feedback has been explained enough to show the reasons we should definitely have iMessages synced across all devices.