HT205220: About encrypted backups in iTunes

Learn about About encrypted backups in iTunes
amyakatrinity
Level 1 (4 points)
Apple Watch

Q: Is anyone else appalled that there is no password recovery or secure reset in place for encrypted backups????

I am absolutely stunned that there is no password recovery for encrypted iPhone backups.

 

1) No password is required to gain access to the iTunes application. It launches and the phone connects automatically.

2) Someone could maliciously set a password. At a minimum the OSx password for the Mac or device using iTunes should be required before setting the encryption password.

3) There is no recovery option. None. Tell me: what password-protected sensitive data has NO recovery option? No secret questions, no email link, no OSx password, nothing. This is horrible.

 

I am in a situation where I cannot recall the password and even though I had the foresight to write it down somewhere, that paper copy is gone. I have an unfortunate medical condition where I am losing memory. I reset passwords on all my secure stuff often. It's just my new reality.

 

I am faced with a situation where if I ever need to restore my device or want to upgrade to a new one, I will lose all my old texts and any local health data in my apps (which is critical for a person with health issues). Losing memories of conversations for a person who relies on these devices precisely because I am losing my memory is a slap in the face.

 

What IT risk audit team approved this feature, Apple? It is utterly unbelievable that a company of your caliber would set people up to fail like this. Please issue a fix in iTunes for password recovery and override. PLEASE.

iPhone 6s, iTunes iPhone backup encryption

Posted on Sep 8, 2016 9:34 AM

by amyakatrinity,Solvedanswer
amyakatrinity amyakatrinity
Level 1 (4 points)
Apple Watch
A:

Guys, this was an epic fail. I spent the better part of the day erasing, backing up, erasing, restoring, only to have encryption persist in iTunes with my old data on the phone. The only time it did not appear was when I used a ghost of a phone with NO Apple ID, nothing.

 

I'm guessing it's probably tied to the Apple ID or embedded in the phone or tied to an accession number (maybe phone Serial number?). ???? It would not go away as long as I had any trace of my former self on the phone.

 

Welp, at least I have the iCloud option, at the hefty premium of iCloud storage for a 128GB phone. What about people who can't afford the 1TB plan?

 

Hopefully Apple will work on more innovative security. As the population ages and Alzheimer's grows, this is going to be a HUGE HUGE problem. Retina?

Posted on Sep 8, 2016 5:18 PM

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amyakatrinity

Q: Is anyone else appalled that there is no password recovery or secure reset in place for encrypted backups????

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  • by KiltedTim,

    KiltedTim KiltedTim Sep 8, 2016 9:39 AM in response to amyakatrinity
    Level 9 (55,083 points)
    iPhone
    Sep 8, 2016 9:39 AM in response to amyakatrinity

    No. If there were a way to recover or reset it, the encryption would be completely worthless.

    Exercise good security practices on the computer where you have iTunes installed and you won't have to worry about someone maliciously setting a password for the backups.

  • by amyakatrinity,

    amyakatrinity amyakatrinity Sep 8, 2016 9:49 AM in response to KiltedTim
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Apple Watch
    Sep 8, 2016 9:49 AM in response to KiltedTim

    Fine, but I set an encrypted password myself and cannot remember it. I've tried everything. Writing down passwords is not a good idea either.

     

    How does setting recovery or reset null and void the encryption? Data in iCloud is protected with a recoverable/reset password. How is this any different?

     

    Just a warning to others who have not yet set encryption: DON'T DO IT. If you get into a car accident and lose your memory or have some other medical problem where you can't remember what you set, you're screwed. DON'T DO IT.

  • by ShagCA,

    ShagCA ShagCA Sep 8, 2016 9:53 AM in response to amyakatrinity
    Level 4 (1,863 points)
    iPad
    Sep 8, 2016 9:53 AM in response to amyakatrinity

    You can submit feedback:

    http://www.apple.com/feedback/itunesapp.html

     

    The attached encrypted backup article clearly says:

    There is no way to recover your information or turn off Encrypt Backup if you lose or forget the password.


    It's something you should take into account before enabling encryption. I have a tendency to forget passwords too. That's why I don't password protect my iTunes backups because I know someday when I need to restore, I'd likely have difficulty entering the correct password.

  • by Meg St._Clair,

    Meg St._Clair Meg St._Clair Sep 8, 2016 9:54 AM in response to amyakatrinity
    Level 9 (58,471 points)
    iPhone
    Sep 8, 2016 9:54 AM in response to amyakatrinity

    No. If there were a recovery procedure, it would be represent a vulnerability. I'm glad that Apple takes the security of my data seriously.

     

    While I sympathize with your medical issues, I wouldn't want Apple to compromise everyone (including mine) else's data because of that. You may need to enlist friends, family members or caregivers in helping you keep track of things like passwords. Or, don't use the encrypted back up to your computer. If you back up to iCloud, that is also encrypted and will store your health data.

  • by amyakatrinity,

    amyakatrinity amyakatrinity Sep 8, 2016 10:01 AM in response to Meg St._Clair
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Apple Watch
    Sep 8, 2016 10:01 AM in response to Meg St._Clair

    How is providing a recovery/reset option through some ISO standard providing a greater vulnerability? There's two types of security: 1) Keeping from the hands of people who shouldn't see it, and 2) Keeping it safe for the person who owns it and needs access to it. This protocol only satisfies number 1 here.

     

    What if, on a larger scale, all data in a bunker was kept secure in a building that only one guy had a key to. That guy goes out to lunch, locks the building, and gets hit by a bus. No one can find the key at the scene of the accident. The servers in the bunker go down and now no one can get to that data. You can't call a locksmith, and anyone with data in that bunker is now screwed.

     

    Isn't part of security protecting the rights-holder's access as well??

  • by Demo,

    Demo Demo Sep 8, 2016 10:05 AM in response to amyakatrinity
    Level 10 (94,971 points)
    iPad
    Sep 8, 2016 10:05 AM in response to amyakatrinity

    Take a look at Gail from Maine's post here. Apparently, this should work.

    Re: How can we reset Backup password

     

    Bear in mind that iCloud backups are encrypted and will include your health data.

  • by Meg St._Clair,

    Meg St._Clair Meg St._Clair Sep 8, 2016 10:11 AM in response to amyakatrinity
    Level 9 (58,471 points)
    iPhone
    Sep 8, 2016 10:11 AM in response to amyakatrinity

    May I suggest you don't put a password on your phone. And don't use a restrictions password on your phone. If you forget those, your data is gone.

     

    However, in the case of the back up, you should be able to delete the encrypted back up then make a new one. I believe the path to delete it is Preferences>Back up but I don't use iTunes much any more.

  • by Demo,

    Demo Demo Sep 8, 2016 10:16 AM in response to Meg St._Clair
    Level 10 (94,971 points)
    iPad
    Sep 8, 2016 10:16 AM in response to Meg St._Clair

    Meg St._Clair wrote:

     

    However, in the case of the back up, you should be able to delete the encrypted back up then make a new one. I believe the path to delete it is Preferences>Back up but I don't use iTunes much any more.

    Just an FYI...

     

    On a Mac...iTunes>Preferences>Devices. The window with all of the backups will appear.

     

    In Windows...Edit>Preferences>Devices. I think that's the path in Windows.

  • by elcpu,

    elcpu elcpu Sep 8, 2016 10:28 AM in response to Meg St._Clair
    Level 6 (16,022 points)
    Photos for Mac
    Sep 8, 2016 10:28 AM in response to Meg St._Clair

    Meg St._Clair wrote:

     

    However, in the case of the back up, you should be able to delete the encrypted back up then make a new one. I believe the path to delete it is Preferences>Back up but I don't use iTunes much any more.

     

    Sorry Meg but it will not work. Once you select "Encrypt" on iTunes, all future backups will be encrypted by default. Whether you delete the encrypted backup or not makes no difference. All the OP can do is this:

    If you forgot the Encryption Password:

    https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT205220


    There is a workaround that Demo mentioned but it is time consuming. To bypass the issue of encrypted backups always being encrypted:  Backup to iCloud. Then erase the phone. Then backup to iTunes as an unencrypted backup. Then restore from the iCloud backup. Then backup to iTunes again.

    From: https://discussions.apple.com/message/30209896?tstart=0#30209896

  • by Demo,

    Demo Demo Sep 8, 2016 10:30 AM in response to elcpu
    Level 10 (94,971 points)
    iPad
    Sep 8, 2016 10:30 AM in response to elcpu

    Did you see my post? You were in that discussion. Doesn't Gail's suggestion work?

     

    NM. You answered my question.

  • by amyakatrinity,

    amyakatrinity amyakatrinity Sep 8, 2016 10:34 AM in response to elcpu
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Apple Watch
    Sep 8, 2016 10:34 AM in response to elcpu

    I just completed an iCloud backup and will begin this process shortly:

    To bypass the issue of encrypted backups always being encrypted,

    backup to iCloud. Then erase the phone. Then backup to iTunes as an unencrypted backup. Then restore from the iCloud backup. Then backup to iTunes again.


    But to be clear, I cannot do the underscored sentence above, because I can do no backup to iTunes unless I have the encryption password. I can only start new iTunes backups after I have wiped the phone, correct?


    Should I be concerned that I do not see a file or folder for my phone backup in iCloud Drive?


    Also, I'm feeling a bit berated for having selected encryption if I could not recall my password. 1) Accidents can happen to anyone, even you. 2) I hesitated even with the warnings, but proceeded because iTunes is not very secure. If my iTunes app prompted for passwords I might not have moved to protect my backup. But as it is, once logged in, all someone needs to do is connect a new phone and restore the device pronto.

  • by KiltedTim,

    KiltedTim KiltedTim Sep 8, 2016 10:34 AM in response to amyakatrinity
    Level 9 (55,083 points)
    iPhone
    Sep 8, 2016 10:34 AM in response to amyakatrinity

    amyakatrinity wrote:

     

    How is providing a recovery/reset option through some ISO standard providing a greater vulnerability? There's two types of security: 1) Keeping from the hands of people who shouldn't see it, and 2) Keeping it safe for the person who owns it and needs access to it. This protocol only satisfies number 1 here.

     

    What if, on a larger scale, all data in a bunker was kept secure in a building that only one guy had a key to. That guy goes out to lunch, locks the building, and gets hit by a bus. No one can find the key at the scene of the accident. The servers in the bunker go down and now no one can get to that data. You can't call a locksmith, and anyone with data in that bunker is now screwed.

     

    Isn't part of security protecting the rights-holder's access as well??

    Sorry. You apparently don't understand the purpose of security and encryption.

    If there is a 'back door', it will be exploited and abused. It's not a matter of if, it's a matter of when.

    It is your responsibility to keep track of your keys. If you have a habit of forgetting your passwords, you should write them down and store them in a safe or safe deposit box. Just don't lose the combination for the safe...

  • by javaliga,Helpful

    javaliga javaliga Sep 8, 2016 11:29 AM in response to amyakatrinity
    Level 4 (3,377 points)
    iCloud
    Sep 8, 2016 11:29 AM in response to amyakatrinity

    amyakatrinity wrote:

     

    ...

    But to be clear, I cannot do the underscored sentence above, because I can do no backup to iTunes unless I have the encryption password. I can only start new iTunes backups after I have wiped the phone, correct?


    Should I be concerned that I do not see a file or folder for my phone backup in iCloud Drive?

    ...

     

    To your first question, that is correct and is exactly what elcpu's procedure is telling you to do.  To reiterate:

    1. Backup to iCloud.

    2. Then erase the phone.

    3. Then backup to iTunes as an unencrypted backup. (In a sense, an empty backup - but now unencrypted.)

    4. Then restore from the iCloud backup.

    5. Finally, backup to iTunes again. (Now you have an unencrypted backup in iTunes.)

     

    To your second question, on your phone, go to:

     

    Settings > General > Storage & iCloud Usage > Manage Storage (under ICLOUD) > [Your Phone] (under BACKUPS)

     

    and make sure the "Latest Backup" has a recent date/time and the "Backup Size" seems reasonable.  Do not follow the above procedure until you confirm this or you stand to lose everything.

  • by elcpu,Helpful

    elcpu elcpu Sep 8, 2016 11:21 AM in response to amyakatrinity
    Level 6 (16,022 points)
    Photos for Mac
    Sep 8, 2016 11:21 AM in response to amyakatrinity

    Please see my comments in blue below:

    amyakatrinity wrote:

     

    I just completed an iCloud backup and will begin this process shortly:

    To bypass the issue of encrypted backups always being encrypted,

    backup to iCloud. Then erase the phone. Then backup to iTunes as an unencrypted backup. Then restore from the iCloud backup. Then backup to iTunes again.


    But to be clear, I cannot do the underscored sentence above, because I can do no backup to iTunes unless I have the encryption password. I can only start new iTunes backups after I have wiped the phone, correct?

    Correct. You need to backup to iCloud and then erase the phone. This will remove the encryption code from the phone and then you can do an unencrypted backup to iTunes and restore from iCloud.


    Should I be concerned that I do not see a file or folder for my phone backup in iCloud Drive?

    Go to iCloud.com and look under Settings > My Devices > your Phone. You should be able to see the latest iCloud backup.


    Also, I'm feeling a bit berated for having selected encryption if I could not recall my password. 1) Accidents can happen to anyone, even you. 2) I hesitated even with the warnings, but proceeded because iTunes is not very secure. If my iTunes app prompted for passwords I might not have moved to protect my backup. But as it is, once logged in, all someone needs to do is connect a new phone and restore the device pronto.

    Pls. don't feel berated. I am not berating you - suggest you ignore anyone that does. I understand what you are saying. One suggestion, put a passcode on your computer when asleep, that way no one can get to iTunes or anything else.


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