ShirleyfromDover

Q: I just bought an iMac.  We have been having power outages and power surges all week.  My iMac is plugged into a surge protector.  Will the outages damage my computer?

I just bought an iMac.  I have it plugged into an APC surge protector.  This week we have been have a lot of power outages and power surges.  Will this damage my computer even with it being plugged into the surge protector?

Thanks

Shirley

iMac (21.5-inch, Late 2015), OS X El Capitan (10.11.6)

Posted on Sep 13, 2016 6:09 AM

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Q: I just bought an iMac.  We have been having power outages and power surges all week.  My iMac is plugged into a surge pr ... more

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  • by ckuan,Helpful

    ckuan ckuan Sep 13, 2016 7:30 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover
    Level 7 (33,832 points)
    Sep 13, 2016 7:30 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover

    I think you are safe with a surge protector.

  • by Justan Oldfart,

    Justan Oldfart Justan Oldfart Sep 13, 2016 7:16 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover
    Level 2 (333 points)
    Sep 13, 2016 7:16 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover

    In your situation it would be best to use a battery backup with built in surge protection. APC makes many different backup solutions.

  • by babowa,

    babowa babowa Sep 13, 2016 7:46 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover
    Level 7 (32,056 points)
    iPad
    Sep 13, 2016 7:46 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover

    Depends on the quality and capabilities of the surge protector. The small plug-in types will be good for something small, but not a running computer. As suggested, check into APC - its battery will allow you enough time to properly shut down your Mac in case of an outage.

  • by rkaufmann87,Solvedanswer

    rkaufmann87 rkaufmann87 Sep 13, 2016 7:49 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover
    Level 9 (58,598 points)
    Photos for Mac
    Sep 13, 2016 7:49 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover

    It would be wise to invest (about $100 USD) for a Uninterruptable Power Supply (UPS), APC makes very good ones. The advantage of a UPS is it has a battery in it, that stays charged while the system has power. If the power goes out, a UPS will provide adequate power to do an orderly shutdown. You can also set the Energy saver settings to tell the computer to shut down after a few minutes of battery power, this is useful because someone may not be around when the power goes out and is therefore not present to shut down the computer. I have used an APC ES-750 for years and it has always served me well.

  • by JimmyCMPIT,

    JimmyCMPIT JimmyCMPIT Sep 13, 2016 7:55 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover
    Level 5 (7,612 points)
    Mac OS X
    Sep 13, 2016 7:55 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover

    if the surge protector is experiencing power surges all week it is drastically lowering the lifespan of any protection if offered. These things are far from being permanent solutions and are not built to withstand a lifetime repeated surges.

  • by mattwithcats,Helpful

    mattwithcats mattwithcats Sep 13, 2016 9:58 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover
    Level 1 (45 points)
    Desktops
    Sep 13, 2016 9:58 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover

    A surge protector works, but if the power goes out, what your working on goes bye bye...

     

    I bought the big brother to this, but I have a lot of devices, hence more power draw.

    The little one will work just fine, more than enough time to save and shut down

    I also set the sensitivity to high, now it reacts to even small power fluctuations...

    http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/383084/APC-Back-UPS-450VA-Battery-Backup/

    I plugged an LED lamp into one of the battery backup sockets, draw is less than 10 watts.

    A cable to connect it to your computer is included,

  • by KiltedTim,

    KiltedTim KiltedTim Sep 13, 2016 10:23 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover
    Level 9 (55,622 points)
    Mac OS X
    Sep 13, 2016 10:23 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover

    If you spent any less than about US$100 on a surge protector, it's basically nothing more than a multi-outlet strip with a circuit breaker and maybe Ground Fault interruption. They offer very little in the way of real protection.

    Your best protection probably comes in the form of a UPS and making sure your computers are covered under your homeowners or renters insurance policy.

  • by westom,

    westom westom Sep 14, 2016 7:30 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Sep 14, 2016 7:30 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover

    Power outages do not damage hardware.  Surges occur maybe once every seven years.  If having multiple surges, then how many of these have you replaced: refrigerator, central air, door bell, clocks, dishwasher, LED and CFL bulbs, furnace, clock radio, dimmer switches, and the most critical item if a surge exists - smoke detectors?

     

    Second, plug-in protectors do not claim to protect from  typically destructive surges.  For example, how does its 2 cm part 'block' a surge that cannot be stopped by three miles of sky?  How does it 'block' surges?

     

    A surge may be hundreds of thousands of joules.  How many joules does that APC claim to 'absorb'?  A thousand?  What happens when a thousand joules tries to 'absorb' hundreds of thousands of joules?  In rare cases, even fire results.

     

    Third, best protection at an iMac is already inside that iMac.  Your concern is a rare anomaly (ie once every seven years) that can overwhelm that robust protection.  That must be at the service entrance to make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground.  To even protect that APC protector.  This 'whole house' solution costs about $1 per protected appliance.  How much was the APC?

     

    If an iMac needs that protection, then so does everything else.  Best protection from any surge is also least expensive protection for everything.  How does APC protect a bathroom GFCI, furnace, and all smoke detectors?

     

    Four, UPS is temporary and 'dirty' power so that unsaved data can be saved.  It does nothing to protect hardware. Read its spec numbers - hundreds of joules.  A number just above zero so that many can be told to believe it does 100% protection.  A near zero joules UPS only claims hardware protection where lying is legal - in subjective sales brochures. Not one UPS recommendation cites any number for protection. Many are that easily manipulated by advertising, hearsay, and wild speculation.

     

    UPS power can be so dirty as to be problematic for motorized appliances.  Due to robust internal protection, that same 'dirty' power is also ideal for electronics.

     

    BTW, anybody can read spec numbers.  A $100 protector is electrically similar to one selling in Walmart for $10.  Since so many have no idea what a protector does, then a bigger price somehow means it is better.  If better, then one posted specification numbers that said how much better.  No numbers posted because a $3 power strip with ten cent protector parts and a fancy paint can sell for $100.  Scams are that easily promoted.

     

    As about the only solution that actually protects from surges: a properly earthed 'whole house' protector.  It costs about $1 per protected appliance.  And is little known to many educated only by advertising.

  • by babowa,

    babowa babowa Sep 14, 2016 7:52 AM in response to westom
    Level 7 (32,056 points)
    iPad
    Sep 14, 2016 7:52 AM in response to westom

    Rather than pasting a basically identical post every time, can you actually provide data/link to your claims here:

     

    Power outages do not damage hardware. 

     

    They have at the clubhouse in our community. Personally, I do not know how, but it traveled through the cables/wall, took out the modem and that, in turn, damaged/fried something in the computer.

     

    And this:

     

    Surges occur maybe once every seven years

     

    We'd appreciate some actual and provable facts.

  • by westom,

    westom westom Sep 14, 2016 8:54 AM in response to babowa
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Sep 14, 2016 8:54 AM in response to babowa

    > Personally, I do not know how, but it traveled through the cables/wall, took out the modem and that, in turn, damaged/fried something in the computer.

     

    You did not trace an incoming and outgoing path to learn?  For example, lightning striking far down the street is incoming to everything.  So everything is damaged?  Of course not.  We were all taught how electricity works.  An outgoing path must exist.  To have damage, that electric current must also have an outgoing path to earth.  What is a best outgoing path?  TV cable, phone, and satellite dish must already have effective protection installed for free.  Incoming on AC mains. Outgoing to earth via a computer and modem on  those other properly earthed utility wires.

     

    What protected everything else?  A computer and modem made a best connection to earth.  So a surge incoming to everything else did not find a better outgoing path via other appliances.  Effective protection, even over 100 years ago, earthed BEFORE a surge enters.   Everything based in concepts your were taught in school.  And provided by companies known for integrity - ie 'whole house' protector.  A protector is only as effective as its earth ground.

     

    OK.  Power cycling does do damage.  And then we include numbers.  For example, that power switch it typically rated for 100,000 cycles.  That means power cycling seven times every day for .... 39 years.  So yes, power cycling is destructive until we include numbers.  Then nobody cares.  Find those numbers in datasheets.

     

    Transistors create greatest strain when power cycling.  As a transistor switches on, it is so strained as to actually emit an tiny IR light pulse from the PN junction.  So leaving it on creates maximum stress as transistors power cycle hundreds or millions of times a second.  Transistors also fail due to power cycling.  A number now so large that it is no longer provided in datasheets.  So yes, power cycling is destructive.  And then we include numbers.  Then nobody cares.

     

    From Eaton's Guide to Surge Suppression:

    > In Florida (worst case in the U.S.), there are six ground flashes/year/km2 (IEEE C62.41).  A facility occupying one acre will experience one direct strike every 40 years. Based on the percentages in Figure 9, the facility will experience one stroke exceeding 200 kA every 800 years.

     

    Geology, routing of utility wires, and other factors can significantly change that number.

     

    Bottom line - plenty of urban myths have been challenged.  Myths exist and get promoted by the many who routinely ignore or do not always demand numbers.

  • by babowa,

    babowa babowa Sep 14, 2016 10:03 AM in response to westom
    Level 7 (32,056 points)
    iPad
    Sep 14, 2016 10:03 AM in response to westom

    I will overlook the fact that you still have not offered proof; instead, you appear to be advertising (if you'd like, check the ToU for these forums - link is available at the bottom of every page).

     

    My need for a UPS is that at least once every 24 - 36 hours, my iMac informs me that it is running on battery backup power. This "outage" usually lasts 30 - 60 seconds (sometimes longer). That would be enough time to force the extremely sensitive electronic equipment off and that means that anything I had been working on: composing a letter, writing an opinion, editing video, or whatever would be lost. Additionally, that process is not the right way to shut down a Mac and can cause corruption. That is definitely software/OS problem - it may not be hardware damage, but it is destructive nonetheless. And, a UPS will do exactly what it is meant to do: its' battery will allow you to have enough time to shut down your electronic equipment properly.

     

    Since I (and most others) never compose a letter or edit video on my stove, refrigerator, or any other appliance you mentioned, it obviously does not cause a problem there, so your argument is pointless.

     

    You did not trace an incoming and outgoing path to learn?

     

    Why would I? I do not own that clubhouse and I am not an electrician or other professional employed by them.

  • by westom,

    westom westom Sep 14, 2016 11:12 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover
    Level 1 (4 points)
    Sep 14, 2016 11:12 AM in response to ShirleyfromDover

    A layman and adult keeps learning - such as learn from damage in a clubhouse.  Only one who waits to be told what to think would not do that layman simple examination.  Explained is why it happens from someone who did this stuff over 40 years.  Instead you deny because some 'magic box' said something different  - to protect sales?

     

    Many only know a first thing they are told. Then stubbornly deny anything that disagrees.  Also called brainwashing.  Others made blanket and unsupported statements - with no numbers.  Why do you not challenge them?  You only want to protect what you were told to believe.  Quite common when scams (such as a UPS for hardware protection) are promoted.

     

    Every facility that cannot have damage bases protection in what does that protection.  Single point earth ground.  Many techniques now found in protected homes were pioneered in telephone switchboard facilities, munitions dumps, and even atop the Empire State Building where 23 direct strikes annually cause no electronics damage.  If every case, the solution is found in earth ground.  And never in some 'magic box' (a UPS or surge protector).

     

    Those ineffective protectors are promoted here without any shred of proof.  Why do you not demand proof from them?  You drank the Kool-Aid?  You refuse to learn.

     

    Even near zero spec numbers for a UPS or power strip do not claim to protect from destructive surges.

     

    Best protection is already inside ShirleyfromDover's computer.  Plug-in protectors may compromise that protection IF a 'whole house' protector is not properly earthed.  Reality did not change just because it was not the first thing you were told.   An honest denial would demand other subjective recommendations to provide supporting facts.   None exist.  None posted for one reason.  Neither a UPS nor power strip claims to protect from a typically destructive surge.  Ask them to post justification?  Why do you not?  Too much Kool-Aid?

     

    Best protection for any appliance including that computer is a properly earthed 'whole house' solution. Otherwise that APC protector can even make iMac damage easier.  Best protection also costs tens or 100 times less money.  Leaving more dollars to buy more Kool-Aid.

     

    BTW I do not like Kool-Aid.  I want real fruit in my fruit drinks.

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Sep 14, 2016 11:15 AM in response to westom
    Level 9 (50,516 points)
    Desktops
    Sep 14, 2016 11:15 AM in response to westom

    westom wrote:

     

     

    That must be at the service entrance to make a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth ground.

    I have to ask, how many OHMs in a foot?

  • by Csound1,

    Csound1 Csound1 Sep 14, 2016 11:16 AM in response to westom
    Level 9 (50,516 points)
    Desktops
    Sep 14, 2016 11:16 AM in response to westom

    Don't bother to answer my earlier question, you have already done that.

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